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Posted: 12/15/2003 5:22:25 PM EDT
Not my choice. Question #1 Will a Bushy upper mate to a Colt (I'm assuming, havn't seen it yet) M16A2 lower? Question #2 What options do I have for mounting an EOTech 552, Dieter Foregrip, and M3 Light to this musket? Thanks in advance...we fly out Friday.

PP
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 5:28:20 PM EDT
Yes, the Bushy upper should mate nicely with the issued lower, if they let you do it.  The best option for mounting everything you want to mount would be an RAS or other type of rail system.  The best thing to do is contact Wes at [url=http://mstn.biz/]MSTN[/url].  He can help you with whatever you need.  Trust him, he knows what works and what does not.  
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 5:51:03 PM EDT
I doubt the Army (or USAF or USMC) is going to let you switch the uppers. However, you can obtain a carry-handle forward mount for your EOTech. It will place the EOTech above the handguards and allow use of the irons as well. Good luck!!!
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 5:53:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ABNAK:
I doubt the Army (or USAF or USMC) is going to let you switch the uppers. However, you can obtain a carry-handle forward mount for your EOTech. It will place the EOTech above the handguards and allow use of the irons as well. Good luck!!!
View Quote
How do you know its with the mil?  A lot of contract workers are in the AO.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 6:04:35 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies. I'm not Military.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 6:08:04 PM EDT
If you dont want a full blown rail system GGG makes a rail adapter for the bottom handguard (UFIR).  This would allow you to mount both the light and dieter grip there.
[img]http://www.gggaz.com/images/AR15UFIR/UFIR_AR_Side.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.gggaz.com/images/AR15UFIR/UFIR_AR_Btm.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:03:15 PM EDT
I would suggest you stay with what you are given if you are unfamiliar with the equipment.  
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:21:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2003 7:28:51 PM EDT by Adam_White]
Poly -

If you are who I think you are, go back "home" and PM TR, he could definitely recommend stuff to you, and Wes at MSTN could definitely get it for you.

Quickest and easiest thing, though, would be to follow ABNAK's advice and get a PRI gooseneck mount (G&R Tactical Outfitters has some in stock right now, see the Equipment exchange) which will allow you to mount your EOTech forward of the carry handle.

If you are determined to go carbine - and assuming you have a Bushmaster Carbine Upper already, Knights RIS rail system is an option, but it takes some effort and disassembly to mount.  A quicker mounting solution, if you can get it fast enough, is an ARMS bi-level SIR that will allow you all the rails you need while free floating your barrel and allowing the EOTech to mount at the proper height for use of your irons w/ a BUIS.

Here is a recent thread on the new SIR that would fit the bill: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=174732&w=searchPop[/url]

Of course, Hoplites solution should also work if you intend to just mount the EOTech to a flat-top receiver - it would be a helluva lot cheaper, too.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:26:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stickman:
I would suggest you stay with what you are given if you are unfamiliar with the equipment.  
View Quote


The man in question has had plenty enough time behind a trigger to make that assessment for himself.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:47:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2003 7:48:51 PM EDT by PSYWAR1-0]
Dammit Poly you should have said something about needing gear over at the "Home" site.  Im downrange now and cant hook ya up.  Hope you got some "Aim for the Ass" bullets :-)

Edited to say Get intouch with MSTN they will do their best to get you the gear you need prior to Friday.  

Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:06:16 PM EDT
Here's a dumb question?  Who besides the military gets to be deployed with FA weapons?  And what does AO stand for?

Thanks in advance for forgiving my ignorance.

James
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 11:38:37 AM EDT
AO in this context probably means Area of Operations.  Don't know who besides military would be "deployed" there though.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 11:54:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mike_L:
AO in this context probably means Area of Operations.  Don't know who besides military would be "deployed" there though.
View Quote


Contractors......or OGA
I have to ask though, why this sort of uneducated question from a supposed  "Experienced Operator"?
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 12:51:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Originally Posted By Mike_L:
AO in this context probably means Area of Operations.  Don't know who besides military would be "deployed" there though.
View Quote


Contractors......or OGA
I have to ask though, why this sort of uneducated question from a supposed  "Experienced Operator"?
View Quote


I have never questioned who you claimed to be - but that is an ignorant question coming from someone who is what you claim to be.

I have known plenty of "experienced operators" who were CLUELESS about what was available in the civilian market as far as firearms go.  That is one of the few gear categories that many often DON'T spend their own money on.

Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:39:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Originally Posted By Mike_L:
AO in this context probably means Area of Operations.  Don't know who besides military would be "deployed" there though.
View Quote


Contractors......or OGA
I have to ask though, why this sort of uneducated question from a supposed  "Experienced Operator"?
View Quote


I have never questioned who you claimed to be - but that is an ignorant question coming from someone who is what you claim to be.

I have known plenty of "experienced operators" who were CLUELESS about what was available in the civilian market as far as firearms go.  That is one of the few gear categories that many often DON'T spend their own money on.

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WTF are you talking about? I have never interacted w/ you, never even seen your screen name before and yet you act like you are doing me a favor by not doing a background check on me. Who the Fuck are YOU?

I am not saying that he should know all the after market accessories.... only the Net posers or dealers know all that stuff. But not knowing that a BM upper will fit on a GI Colt lower is just plained un-informed. Especially if you OWN the BM upper.

Besides, isn't this the kind of hush hush stuff that is looked down apon on the "Home" site talking OPSEC on open forum about being deployed Friday???? If he needed info about rail systems, he could have asked w/out adding that he was being "Deployed" Sounds like he wanted to make sure that everyone knew he was headed over.

"The man in question has had plenty enough time behind a trigger to make that assessment for himself"
Make up your mind, is he accomplished or, like so many others you know, very un-informed in this area because they don't spend their own money on this stuff.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:47:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 6:48:25 PM EDT by Hoplite]
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Originally Posted By Mike_L:
AO in this context probably means Area of Operations.  Don't know who besides military would be "deployed" there though.
View Quote


Contractors......or OGA
I have to ask though, why this sort of uneducated question from a supposed  "Experienced Operator"?
View Quote


I have never questioned who you claimed to be - but that is an ignorant question coming from someone who is what you claim to be.

I have known plenty of "experienced operators" who were CLUELESS about what was available in the civilian market as far as firearms go.  That is one of the few gear categories that many often DON'T spend their own money on.

View Quote


WTF are you talking about? I have never interacted w/ you, never even seen your screen name before and yet you act like you are doing me a favor by not doing a background check on me. Who the Fuck are YOU?

I am not saying that he should know all the after market accessories.... only the Net posers or dealers know all that stuff. But not knowing that a BM upper will fit on a GI Colt lower is just plained un-informed. Especially if you OWN the BM upper.

Besides, isn't this the kind of hush hush stuff that is looked down apon on the "Home" site talking OPSEC on open forum about being deployed Friday???? If he needed info about rail systems, he could have asked w/out adding that he was being "Deployed" Sounds like he wanted to make sure that everyone knew he was headed over.

"The man in question has had plenty enough time behind a trigger to make that assessment for himself"
Make up your mind, is he accomplished or, like so many others you know, very un-informed in this area because they don't spend their own money on this stuff.
View Quote
Because the guy doesnt know about each and every little detail about equipment you make a big deal?  I dont see where Opsec comes into play even more so since this is contract work.  Maybe a clandestine or covert operation but this is an overt operation, they know we are there, they know more are coming.
Anyway if I wasnt a fan of firearms or didnt read this site frequently I probably would be asking similar questions.  Does that make me or anyone else an idiot?  Is the 0-6 in the G-1 an idiot because hes pretty familiar with the m16a1 but not the new m4a1?  I guess in your eyes those 25 years under his belt mean jack shit as far as experience goes.
We are all on the same team here fighting the same assholes.  lets try and remember that
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:02:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Originally Posted By Mike_L:
AO in this context probably means Area of Operations.  Don't know who besides military would be "deployed" there though.
View Quote


Contractors......or OGA
I have to ask though, why this sort of uneducated question from a supposed  "Experienced Operator"?
View Quote


I have never questioned who you claimed to be - but that is an ignorant question coming from someone who is what you claim to be.

I have known plenty of "experienced operators" who were CLUELESS about what was available in the civilian market as far as firearms go.  That is one of the few gear categories that many often DON'T spend their own money on.

View Quote


WTF are you talking about? I have never interacted w/ you, never even seen your screen name before and yet you act like you are doing me a favor by not doing a background check on me. Who the Fuck are YOU?

I am not saying that he should know all the after market accessories.... only the Net posers or dealers know all that stuff. But not knowing that a BM upper will fit on a GI Colt lower is just plained un-informed. Especially if you OWN the BM upper.

Besides, isn't this the kind of hush hush stuff that is looked down apon on the "Home" site talking OPSEC on open forum about being deployed Friday???? If he needed info about rail systems, he could have asked w/out adding that he was being "Deployed" Sounds like he wanted to make sure that everyone knew he was headed over.

"The man in question has had plenty enough time behind a trigger to make that assessment for himself"
Make up your mind, is he accomplished or, like so many others you know, very un-informed in this area because they don't spend their own money on this stuff.
View Quote
Because the guy doesnt know about each and every little detail about equipment you make a big deal?  I dont see where Opsec comes into play even more so since this is contract work.  Maybe a clandestine or covert operation but this is an overt operation, they know we are there, they know more are coming.
Anyway if I wasnt a fan of firearms or didnt read this site frequently I probably would be asking similar questions.  Does that make me or anyone else an idiot?  Is the 0-6 in the G-1 an idiot because hes pretty familiar with the m16a1 but not the new m4a1?  I guess in your eyes those 25 years under his belt mean jack shit as far as experience goes.
We are all on the same team here fighting the same assholes.  lets try and remember that
View Quote


You missed the whole point of my post. Go back and read it again.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 8:04:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 8:05:59 PM EDT by knightone]
Hey fellas, relax.  The guy wanted advice.  Some of us gave hime advice.  He deploys tomorrow, so he probably already has what he needed to get, hopefully, so the point is moot.  

If the guy is a real operator, he won't care whether anyone thinks he's the real thing or not, because he knows he's the real thing.  Operators don't become operators so they can thump thier chests and say "hey, look at me, I'm a badass!".  Real operators do because it is who they are, whether or not someone questions their credentials, is of no concern.  Warriors fight so that others may have the right to ask and question what they see, hear, and read.

Polypro, I hope you got everything you needed before you deploy.  Stay safe, get the job done, and come home soon.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 9:12:48 PM EDT
If your staying with the standard, or M4 handguard, GG&G makes a mount for the M3 that screws into the HG at 10 oclock. Works and feels real nice. I played with it alot in the field on my non-K-grip M4. Your thumb is right there when you need light. If you using a K-grip, I would'nt go with it.

My buddy is a part of a security force at Lawrence Livermore Labs, and they all use FA weapons with somewhat of a choice in system types. Gets paid for shooting all day, and working out in the gym. Can you beleive that? ( what a life )
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 10:57:32 PM EDT
Date of deployment isn't usually terribly sensitive.  Time and place of arrival usually are, or at least are more likely to be.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 11:03:58 PM EDT
Most people who had enough trigger time are familiar with weapons, in any case, I do not know or care.  I simply made a point.  If he was unfamiliar, then he should not screw with what he has.  If he is familiar, then my comment would not apply.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 3:33:30 PM EDT
Where are you guys getting all those colts,I thought we were using FN!

Bob [:D}
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 3:56:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:13:34 PM EDT
Wow, quite the little discussion:) Thanks for the help. Wes is great. Havn't touched an A2 since 87'. Own an M4 with rails everywhere. No time or access to research all the options for the musket, hense the question. Thanks again.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:55:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Polypro:
Wow, quite the little discussion:) Thanks for the help. Wes is great. Havn't touched an A2 since 87'. Own an M4 with rails everywhere. No time or access to research all the options for the musket, hense the question. Thanks again.
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Dorry the thread got a bit off track.  People can get quite heated here about the most minor of things and throw the train of the tracks.  I hope you got everything you needed.  Good luck!
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 11:42:15 PM EDT
Adam_White is a Captain in the Army, for those who aren't observant.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:59:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Adam_White is a Captain in the Army, for those who aren't observant.
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Well that explains EVERYTHING!!
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:51:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Adam_White is a Captain in the Army, for those who aren't observant.
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Well that explains EVERYTHING!!
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That statement did kinda come from left field, didn't it?

Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:07:15 AM EDT
I thought evryone was questioning polypro's background and not Adam_White.  Or maybe they were questioning both.  

To settle arguments, a contractor who retired from the military before the late nineties or has simply been a regular infantryman and not SpecOps/SpecWar and does not keep up with the AR scene or any of these crazy toys that are now available for the AR/M16 would probably not know about what is available.  You have to remember not everyone drools over the AR or hangs out in places like this to keep track of the latest cool toys.  Just because a guy can't tell the difference between an EOTech and an Aimpoint doesn't mean he was never an operator.  

Case in point:  the retired Delta operator who told CNN that the Bushmaster is considered a cheap rifle.  He didn't know crap about what is available on the market, but at one time he went fast and played hard.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 12:31:53 AM EDT
Left field, eh? Doorkicker didn't seem to know who you were.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:27:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 1:56:00 AM EDT by Adam_White]
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Left field, eh? Doorkicker didn't seem to know who you were.
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It seems the standard insult to make on this board is "I never noticed you."

I think that was what his "Who the FUCK are you" comment was more about.  The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I don't really get that - but somehow some people think that is supposed to hurt my feelings.  Imagine that, just when I start to think I spend too much time, I am told I am not here enough.

Doorkicker:  Who "I" am is a "friend of a friend" of the man who started this thread.  He is quite competent with the weapons in question, and - it turns out - what he didn't know is whether the civilian AR15 designs were swappable with the GI ones.  Heck - I doubt any schmo from off the street can get hired on with any agency providing security services in Iraq, so he is clearly experienced.

WE gun buffs may all know that the upper to lower receiver mating / specs are identical (except for the Colt large pin ones) - but we can hardly expect that to be common knowledge now, can we?  Especially when exception like with colt, DO exist.

You were the one that jumped up and tried to allege Poly was not experienced.  Amazingly, over three years after the fact, I am starting to realize something one of my soldiers (a former 3rd Bat Regnar) told me over three years ago when he saw your screen name.  His reply (paraphrased), "what a Dork - anyone who would call himself 'Doorkicker' on a gun board is trying to compensate for something."  He wanted me to call you out then - I told him I had no reason to doubt you and no background to care.  

Also as others have mentioned, when some random person on the internet is leaving his home station - when we don't even know where that is - is hardly OPSEC.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:44:14 AM EDT
The man asked a valid question.

It may be common knowledge for all for us who spend a good part of each day at ARFCOM.

What's wrong with the guy asking a question just to make sure and double check?

I think the negative attitudes shown in this thread make it hard for a person who may not know as much as others speak up, learn or even join.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:48:11 AM EDT
Ya know Adam, We should have followed Reapers lead a long time ago.  
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 2:00:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
Ya know Adam, We should have followed Reapers lead a long time ago.  
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He made a grand re-appearance on page six of [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=219366&page=6&w=activePop]THIS [/url]thread.

Arfcom is still my home, you just have to accept that the 10% rule is more like 30 or 40% here.

Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:12:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 5:13:45 PM EDT by Sinister]
Bushmaster and Armalite should fit right on to an A2 lower.  If you have a flat-top upper asembly you can swap off the GI upper and be good to go.  If you want to keep the burst option make sure you have the right carrier to trip the auto sear.

Cheapest option if you have the tools or an AR smith is to just swap out the flat-top upper itself with the GI upper (keeping the barrel, handguards, bolt carrier assembly, forward assist, etc. intact).  This would allow you to use an Aimpoint or Holosight, and leave room for a flip-up iron.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 7:15:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Left field, eh? Doorkicker didn't seem to know who you were.
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It seems the standard insult to make on this board is "I never noticed you."

He wanted me to call you out then - I told him I had no reason to doubt you and no background to care.  

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That is a wise position to take. YOU have no background period. So why make the comment that you have never questioned who I claim to be? Who exactly do I claim to be?
It seems the standard insult to threaten to "Call" someone out.

The reason I made the comment is not because I question Poly, I know or at least assume(not because I have ever met him but because I have read countless numbers of his post's) that he is a former member of Ranger BN.

I jumped in because of the cute little way you and a couple others were refering to your "Home" site and then jumping in when someone else made a comment that if you don't know, you shouldn't change or something like that. Stickmans comment.

You guys are always makeing fun of the "Kids" as you call them on this site and yet you come here and talk trash so you can pump your ego. And then you go back and talk more trash on the "Home" site pump each other up and stroke each others ego even more.

Take the advice given, go back and stay away if this place is so bad.

As far as my screen name, I have explained it before here and on your secret hush hush home site but I'll do it once more. But the short version this time.

While at SFAUC training, on the second day and first day of formal instruction, I blurted out "Kick it" when asked a question about how to breach a door. Obviously the wrong answer, but I didn't know that at the time.
The instructor responded, "Door Kicker, we have one in every class" and I was branded with the nickname for the rest of the class and I have adopted it as my screen name on every site I go to.

Now as for your friend that all those years back was pissed because I already had the name he wanted, are you sure that wasn't you.....? And not someone else that wanted to "call me out"

You mean you have been biteing your tounge all these years, quietly watching and reading my posts waiting for that chance? Come on??

OH, by the way, Merry Christmas everybody...

Link Posted: 12/25/2003 8:36:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Left field, eh? Doorkicker didn't seem to know who you were.
View Quote


It seems the standard insult to make on this board is "I never noticed you."

He wanted me to call you out then - I told him I had no reason to doubt you and no background to care.  

View Quote


That is a wise position to take. YOU have no background period. So why make the comment that you have never questioned who I claim to be? Who exactly do I claim to be?
It seems the standard insult to threaten to "Call" someone out.

The reason I made the comment is not because I question Poly, I know or at least assume(not because I have ever met him but because I have read countless numbers of his post's) that he is a former member of Ranger BN.

I jumped in because of the cute little way you and a couple others were refering to your "Home" site and then jumping in when someone else made a comment that if you don't know, you shouldn't change or something like that. Stickmans comment.

You guys are always makeing fun of the "Kids" as you call them on this site and yet you come here and talk trash so you can pump your ego. And then you go back and talk more trash on the "Home" site pump each other up and stroke each others ego even more.

Take the advice given, go back and stay away if this place is so bad.

As far as my screen name, I have explained it before here and on your secret hush hush home site but I'll do it once more. But the short version this time.

While at SFAUC training, on the second day and first day of formal instruction, I blurted out "Kick it" when asked a question about how to breach a door. Obviously the wrong answer, but I didn't know that at the time.
The instructor responded, "Door Kicker, we have one in every class" and I was branded with the nickname for the rest of the class and I have adopted it as my screen name on every site I go to.

Now as for your friend that all those years back was pissed because I already had the name he wanted, are you sure that wasn't you.....? And not someone else that wanted to "call me out"

You mean you have been biteing your tounge all these years, quietly watching and reading my posts waiting for that chance? Come on??

OH, by the way, Merry Christmas everybody...

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Dude, you got ISSUES.

The guy who commented on your name was my (actually, my boss's) driver, a SGT who had just left 3/75 and was a bit high strung.  Your recent rantings have just appeared very un SF-like.

Nobody's been "quietly watching you" - your name just stood out in my memory because of how he reacted.

The "Home" site was referring to the fact that Poly is a regular on SOCNET, not here.  The post starting this thread was his first here, and we were giving him shit for not asking any of us first.  Nothing secret or "hush hush" was meant by it (it was one of the A-B conversations).

Stickman's comment was clearly designed to be for some wayward private who wanted to go all "Rambo" before deploying.  For such a situation, it would be very good advice.  My simple statement was to let him know that this was not the case.  I also happened to know that Poly would have plenty of range practice time - as his intitial deployment was to a CONUS Army base - NOT immediately overseas.

Merry Christmas - but man, you got ISSUES.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:02:43 AM EDT
Excuse me for my ignorance.  A contractor is not a member of the US Armed forces, right?  But he is working for them.  So, when he goes to his job (hate to call it "being deployed") WHO issues him his weapon (in this case an A2)??  His parent company or does the branch he is working for issue him a weapon?  

I know the ones in Bosnia I met didn't have any weapons on them.  What kind of contractors would need weapons?  Most don't go into combat, do they?  Not that I wouldn't want my AR with me if I was over there.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:44:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Excuse me for my ignorance.  A contractor is not a member of the US Armed forces, right?  But he is working for them.  So, when he goes to his job (hate to call it "being deployed") WHO issues him his weapon (in this case an A2)??  His parent company or does the branch he is working for issue him a weapon?  

I know the ones in Bosnia I met didn't have any weapons on them.  What kind of contractors would need weapons?  Most don't go into combat, do they?  Not that I wouldn't want my AR with me if I was over there.
View Quote

This place isnt exactly stable like Bosnia.  The country appears to have gotten worse since the war ended.  A lot of people think the area will clean up quickly like the Balkans which isnt the case.  Furthermore I think a security gig would require guns.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 8:24:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hoplite:
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Excuse me for my ignorance.  A contractor is not a member of the US Armed forces, right?  But he is working for them.  So, when he goes to his job (hate to call it "being deployed") WHO issues him his weapon (in this case an A2)??  His parent company or does the branch he is working for issue him a weapon?  

I know the ones in Bosnia I met didn't have any weapons on them.  What kind of contractors would need weapons?  Most don't go into combat, do they?  Not that I wouldn't want my AR with me if I was over there.
View Quote

This place isnt exactly stable like Bosnia.  The country appears to have gotten worse since the war ended.  A lot of people think the area will clean up quickly like the Balkans which isnt the case.  Furthermore I think a security gig would require guns.
View Quote


Well, you answered ONE of my many questions [b]"What kind of contractors would need weapons?"[/b]  I guess I just figured "security gigs" would be handled by US forces.

The company I work for now (an Architecture and Engineering firm) was looking for volunteers to go to Iraq if we got some major contracts there.  I told them, "Sure, if I can bring my own firearms."  But, another question would be, would I be allowed to by the current authority in Iraq?  Probably not.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 2:19:27 PM EDT
Polypro is likely long gone now, so I hope like hell he got what he needed and takes care of himself over there.

To answer some of the other questions, yes some contractors carry weapons and yes some are routinely engaged in battle w/ the enemy. Especially in the Middle East. Not as a primary mission but yes it does happen.
A great deal of the type of work they are involved in is traing the host nations police and military, and "Body guard" / security work.

Plus a whole bunch of other stuff that we will not go into, mainly because I don't know enough about it to comment but if someone else does, go for it.

This work is work that US SOF could or have been doing, but do to the uptempo of recent deployments i.e. "The War on Terror" SOF troops have been heavily tasked and thus the need for contractors to step in and get increased "missions" for lack of a better word.

These contractors recruit heavily from former SOF military types, but will take ANYONE that can handle themselves in these situations. Be it civillian or military. These contractors are not new on the scene either. They have just been doing extra highering lately.

Yes they carry weapons and no they are not usually issued by the US Gov't although this may have changed doe to again the uptempo of the recent situation.

As far as you sir, Mr Adam White, your last post was so redundant it was useless and pointless. How bout adding something of value instead of trying to repair your image.
You are an Ordinance officer, and are either about to or have just recently switched to ADA. The only "Combat Arms" branch to allow weomen I might add.

I am not saying that because it is a bad thing, but because you keep referring to Rangers and Ranger BN like you would love for someone here to mistake you for one. Which I KNOW you are not because if you were, you would have mentioned it by now instead of tap danceing around the Ranger word.

You are as far away as possible from the NON-Conventional Military i.e. SOF as it comes. Why you are butt sniffing around SOCNET is beyound me. And yes I was being sarcastic when I called it a hush hush site.

But I know why you were so anxious to refer to that site and jump in to defend one of its "Real" members when they popped in here, because you want to associate yourself with SOCNET and again build you image here where you obviously spend way too much time evident by looking at you post count and time here as a member.

No Ranger would ever look to you to call ANYONE out... and yes I am starting to question your integrity now and not just your character.

The thread you linked to in this one about the poser wannabe Ranger from BHD is an example of what actually happens. You come across the thread, and are all too anxious to call it to everyones attention over on SOCNET, so they can do some checking because you sure as hell can't do anything to prove or dis-prove him.

You pop in and out of the thread and refer to the Moderators over there as your friends again to associate yourself w/ them and build your image again. Clarifying their background as if it needed to be. But can add nothing of value to the post as far as anything important goes.

And then your best comment yet, that MY behavior is not very SF like.

Just what exactly would you be baseing you comclusion on??? Actual time spent in SF community or all that valuable time over on SOCNET. I expect the latter.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 2:40:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 2:43:58 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:

I am not saying that because it is a bad thing, but because you keep referring to Rangers and[red] Ranger BN like you would love for someone here to mistake you for one.[/red]
View Quote


Sorry, but that part is just not true.
I have met Adam on different occasions and had many in-depth discussions about the Military, his duties and the like.

Not once did he ever kid around, act like or tried to insinuate that he was SF.


As far as the other military boards he is an active member of.
How do you know who he has trained with, knows or worked with in his military career?
It may surprise you.

Link Posted: 12/26/2003 3:09:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 8:44:20 AM EDT by Adam_White]
Originally Posted By DoorKicker:As far as you sir, Mr Adam White, your last post was so redundant it was useless and pointless. How bout adding something of value instead of trying to repair your image.
You are an Ordinance officer, and are either about to or have just recently switched to ADA. The only "Combat Arms" branch to allow weomen I might add.
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That's funny, because I only made that post to answer YOUR questions / accusations.  My ADA time was a long time ago - ended that stint in 2000.  BTW, learn to spell O-R-D-N-A-N-C-E.


I am not saying that because it is a bad thing, but because you keep referring to Rangers and Ranger BN like you would love for someone here to mistake you for one. Which I KNOW you are not because if you were, you would have mentioned it by now instead of tap danceing around the Ranger word.
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I don't know where you are getting this from - I told an anecdote about a soldier who got riled up about your screen name - and that soldier was a ranger (which tied directly in to his being bothered by your name).  I made that perfectly clear - I am not sure how anyone could have interpreted otherwise.


You are as far away as possible from the NON-Conventional Military i.e. SOF as it comes. Why you are butt sniffing around SOCNET is beyound me. And yes I was being sarcastic when I called it a hush hush site.

But I know why you were so anxious to refer to that site and jump in to defend one of its "Real" members when they popped in here, because you want to associate yourself with SOCNET and again build you image here where you obviously spend way too much time evident by looking at you post count and time here as a member.
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Actually, I was invited there.  Also, how could I have been "anxious to refer to that site" when I never mentioned it until you got all upset about us keeping it "secret?"


No Ranger would ever look to you to call ANYONE out... and yes I am starting to question your integrity now and not just your character.
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Believe what you want - those that know me know the kind of person I am.  In theis case though, HE was wanting to call you out, till I explained you said you were SF - in which case he - nor I - had the background to do so.  This is a fact I have already made more than clear.


The thread you linked to in this one about the poser wannabe Ranger from BHD is an example of what actually happens. You come across the thread, and are all too anxious to call it to everyones attention over on SOCNET, so they can do some checking because you sure as hell can't do anything to prove or dis-prove him.
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I know this - so I brought it to their attention so they could choose to ignore it or respond to it as they pleased.  I take the impersonation of miltary personnel seriously - and in this case (as in most cases) it involved a Special Operations field.


You pop in and out of the thread and refer to the Moderators over there as your friends again to associate yourself w/ them and build your image again. Clarifying their background as if it needed to be. But can add nothing of value to the post as far as anything important goes.
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You really lost me here.  You cannot point out anywhere where I tried to associate myself or claim some kind of "cool by association" woth ANYONE.  Every post I made was specifically to answer specific questions or concerns regarding the issue at hand.  Again, that board was NOT EVEN MENTIONED until you whined repeatedly about our "hush hush secret" board.


And then your best comment yet, that MY behavior is not very SF like.

Just what exactly would you be baseing you comclusion on??? Actual time spent in SF community or all that valuable time over on SOCNET. I expect the latter.
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I've spent ZERO time in the SF community, and I have never claimed to.  I have, however worked with several former SF guys in the competitive shooting community and in previous units, to include one field grade officer in my last company.  Every one of them was the epitome of the "quiet professional."  I cannot imagine any one of them responding to this thread in the manner that you have.

- Edited because I can't seem to spell "quiet."-
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 4:52:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 4:56:54 PM EDT by JustL00king]
Your issue gun should be a FN not colt but a bushmaster upper will drop on no prob. They wont let you put different upper on the weapon. Somehow you'll have to sneek it with you and do a switch in the field If you want to swap uppers.

BTW the 20in A2 is better for long range, like say a wide open desert.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:18:58 PM EDT
Above:

Read the whole thread cause I think you missed something.

take care!
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:41:16 PM EDT
Maybe if you guys joined the Marines instead, you would not be caught up in this "who is and who isn't SF".  Because then the title of "US Marine" already implies that you are elite!

OK...OK... I am just Kidding!!!!!!
I just had to respond, because I have been reading this thread, and kinda enjoying this "message board-fire fight".

Again, I am just KIDDING!
I have alot of friends that were in the Army (Airborne, Rangers, etc.) and ALL of them are Asskickers!

Be nice guys...it's Christmas.

thanks,

P.S. I am just kinda jealous, I don't have a private security job to be "deployed" to.  Godspeed to Polypro.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 8:26:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 8:29:41 PM EDT by DoorKicker]
Originally Posted By pbuff:

Be nice guys...it's Christmas.

Godspeed to Polypro.
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I agree, plus I am tired of this pointless thread. This is my last post concerning it....

[img]http://carrasco.home.texas.net/mastpara.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 11:42:13 PM EDT
From the sandbox-

Contractors with arms are quite common here.  Just depends on who and where your working.  Most contractors are in vehicles (SUVs) when hit, so a M16A2 is not ideal, here you want something shorter ie SMG, M4, folding stock AK.   Remember guns are quite common over here and the Iraqi people have an easy access to automatic weapons.  They can have pistols, shotguns and rifles up to 8mm.  So they can have a select fire AK-47 with baynote and no limit on magazine capicity. However no crew served weapons, RPGs, surface to air missles are allowed.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 5:41:19 PM EDT
In my exp, the contracting agency provides the weapons for the contractor to use.  IE DoD, DoS ect provide weapons to the contractors when they get to a place where they need them.  In Poly's case he had it good as it seems he was able to play with his weapon a bit prior to getting to a danger area.  
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:26:14 AM EDT
Here's a list of long guns that I have seen contractors and OGAs carring over here.

M4 and M4A1
AK with 30,40 mags and 75rd drums.  Fixed and folding stocks
HK 53
HK 51
MP5
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:30:32 AM EDT
Here's a list of long guns that I have seen contractors and OGAs carring over here.

M4 and M4A1
AK with 30,40 mags and 75rd drums.  Fixed and folding stocks
HK 53
HK 51
MP5


Our guys (SOF) generally carry what they're issued however there is alot of additional weapons used as backup guns.
FAMAS
AK
RPK
MP5
Sterling SMGs
SVD and Iraq SVD look alike built on AK reciever
FAL
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