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Posted: 10/26/2006 10:10:13 AM EST
I have a BM Carbon15 pistol & I am debating on going through with the AOW. The thing I am concerned with is something I read that states once you turn the weapon into an AOW & add a vertical foregrip, it has to be in a manner that said foregrip cannot be removed.

Is this true? I'm not about to spend the money on this if I can't put whatever grip I want on there whenever I want to change it out(grip upgrades, etc.).

Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 2:44:24 PM EST
No, that is not correct. As an AOW you can have the vertical grip on there or not, but you cannot add the VG unless first it is either an AOW or an SBR. Since it costs the same to make an AOW or SBR ($200) unless there are local or state laws prohibiting the SBR I must question why you want to go the AOW route? If it is done as an SBR then you can not only add a vertical grip but also a stock, but you do NOT have to use the stock any more than you have to use the VG. As an SBR it can be set up in any way you want other than as a MG, but you cannot put a stock on an AOW, EVER!
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 2:51:22 PM EST
Send your gun to an SOT and have them make it an AOW it's only 5.00 to transfer back. They will charge you somthing to attach the Vertical Front Grip. I doubt that it would be over 195.00 shipped both ways.

If you are going to do it and pay 200.00 go SBR.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 6:00:53 AM EST
I could be very wrong about this, but I don't think you can take a BM carbon-15 pistol, with it's weird buffer tub, & attach a stock to it ( in order to SBR it).

I would love to SBR it, but I don't think it's possible without drastic, & expensive, changes to it.

I'll be the first to say I don't know as much as you gents & that's why I'm here to ask.

Thanks about the AOW info. If it could be changed to be a SBR candidate, that would be VERY interesting.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 6:07:52 AM EST
The pistol tube *should* come off and a rifle/carbine tube *should* go on. Ask Bushmaster about this. The tube wont take a stock as that would have made it an SBR from the factory I think.

For the 200.00 an SBR can be in pistolish format as well as rifleish IIRC.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 10:20:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
The pistol tube *should* come off and a rifle/carbine tube *should* go on. Ask Bushmaster about this. The tube wont take a stock as that would have made it an SBR from the factory I think.

For the 200.00 an SBR can be in pistolish format as well as rifleish IIRC.


Wait a sec, do you mean that once a device is classified as an SBR it doesn't have to have a stock?

!!!


I'll definitely ask bushmaster about the tube swappout.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 10:33:22 AM EST
Ok I just got off the phone with Bushmaster & they said that what I would need to do is buy a lower, with a regular buffertube /stock & then register that serial as a SBR with the ATF.

After that, then I could take my current pistol upper & drop it on it. I believe that I will also need to change out the bolt/boltcarrier as the pistol one is different than a regular system.

This way I would be able to use the single upper on the pistol lower (sans foregrip), or on the SBR lower (crazygonuts foregrip).

Does that make any sense?

What do complete lowers run around?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:25:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2006 2:27:56 PM EST by Big-Bore]


Wait a sec, do you mean that once a device is classified as an SBR it doesn't have to have a stock?

!!!


I'll definitely ask bushmaster about the tube swappout.


That is correct. As an SBR it does not HAVE to have a stock. Remember, the definition of SBR is a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16 inches OR an OAL less than 26 inches.
I know this to be a fact because I wrote the ATFE before the AWB ended inquiring about turning my SW-45-PDW into a SBR and 1, if I could turn the fixed stock into a folder, and 2, if not, could I remove the stock completely, replacing the stock with a MP5K receiver end plate? They said I could not make the fixed folding stock folding because of the AWB (making an illegal assault weapon) but that it would be OK to remove the stock completely and use an end plate like the MP5K/SP-89, sans any stock. While my hunch is that as an SBR the AWB may not have applied that is moot now. Anyway, once SBRed it can have the stock or not have the stock.

Just one more thing about the AOW. Even if you have a SOT make the AOW for you, you are still going to have to do pretty much the same paperwork and wait anywhere from 3 to 6 months for approval. So while the transfer then is only $5 do not think you can just take your pistol in to the SOT, have him add a vertical grip, pay $5 (or whatever he charges) and waltz out of the shop. He is going to be holding onto the pistol/AOW for a very, long, time.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:52:53 PM EST
Yes but the $5 AOW is cheaper and the way ive been seeing them be turned around from atf it wouldnt be that long. AOW it first then once you have the money I say SBR it. Dunno in the end its all up to you.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 2:46:41 PM EST
How do you go the SBR route and file paperwork with ATF if you manufactured your lower receiver yourself and have no serial number on it?
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 2:53:39 PM EST
If you manufactured the Lower yourself, then simply makeup a serial, engrave it on the lowe, and list yourself as the original manufacturer on the Form 1.

It's pretty simple.
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