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Posted: 5/16/2010 1:07:41 PM EDT
Wondering if you guys would chime in with your opinions of the DPMS SASS rifle and how it compares with it's competition from KAC, Noveske, Larue ETC. I've read that this thing is pretty much a tack driver and it comes in at about 2/3 the cost of some of the more premier brands. I also know most people on this forum think DPMS .223 are POSes. Are the .308 line of DPMS rifles better than their .223? Has anyone shot one of these and if so, are you pleased with its performance?

Seems like this could be a sweet spot in the market, very good price/performance ratio here (seems like this could be picked up just south of 2k).

Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/16/2010 4:01:03 PM EDT
My department bought a SASS for one of our snipers. I got a chance to shoot it a few weeks ago, and was very impressed. I was able to keep my rounds into about the size of a dime at 100 yards (FGMM). My buddy who it is issued to said that he hasn't had any problems with it so far.
Link Posted: 5/16/2010 5:58:49 PM EDT
I have one (mine, not a department issue gun) and am very pleased with it.  I get 2" groups at 300 yards with FGMM and it has been very reliable.  I've only got a couple hundred through it so far, but no complaints yet.
Link Posted: 5/16/2010 6:53:54 PM EDT
I have had one for about 2 months, and shot it only one weekend, about 100 shots, so I really was just breaking it in, and sighting in the optics, but man its fun and accurate.

Here are my last 5 shots at 100 Yards, with cheap ammo and a very warm barrel on a day with 20-25MPH crosswinds.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Ep01MeuwgNA/S-X0LhVXEHI/AAAAAAAAIPg/NyRY79WBgYM/s912/IMG_2222.JPG


I am VERY happy with it. I am still learning how to shoot longer distances, this is my first rifle that is aimed at more than just 100yards, but its pretty awesome so far
Link Posted: 5/16/2010 7:03:47 PM EDT
Thanks for the responses. Been reading this and other forums and people seem to give the DPMS a lot of crap. However, I've seen nothing but great reports about the rifle and the accuracy seems to be great. What does the Noveske, LMT or Larue offer over this one besides the name? What specifically is better about those brands? I understand the Noveske barrels are known for being incredibly accurate, but given the range reports, can we say that it's worth paying an extra $1200 for a Leonidas rifle?

Honestly, the DPMS seems like a steal at its price. Can anyone convince me otherwise?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/16/2010 7:31:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jd1123:
Thanks for the responses. Been reading this and other forums and people seem to give the DPMS a lot of crap. However, I've seen nothing but great reports about the rifle and the accuracy seems to be great. What does the Noveske, LMT or Larue offer over this one besides the name? What specifically is better about those brands? I understand the Noveske barrels are known for being incredibly accurate, but given the range reports, can we say that it's worth paying an extra $1200 for a Leonidas rifle?

Honestly, the DPMS seems like a steal at its price. Can anyone convince me otherwise?

Thanks.


Well, the LaRue OBR has quite a bit more to offer. It has a continuous upper rail , port selector technology for suppressed/unsuppressed shooting, Geissele trigger, Gas Buster charging handle, and the LT-111 scope mount. Accuracy is not a question here either, people have shot 0.3 MOA groups with the 16" barrel. Reliability: it goes bang every time you pull the trigger and the brass fly out without fail. It takes Magpul mags. There is also the great customer service that LaRue is known for: "if you ain't happy, then we ain't happy." They'll make it right if ever anything goes wrong.

Ultimately it's you're choice. But if you have the chance to try it, I'm sure you'll love it. I'll leave this here for you:
Link Posted: 5/16/2010 7:41:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Narc45ACP:
Originally Posted By jd1123:
Thanks for the responses. Been reading this and other forums and people seem to give the DPMS a lot of crap. However, I've seen nothing but great reports about the rifle and the accuracy seems to be great. What does the Noveske, LMT or Larue offer over this one besides the name? What specifically is better about those brands? I understand the Noveske barrels are known for being incredibly accurate, but given the range reports, can we say that it's worth paying an extra $1200 for a Leonidas rifle?

Honestly, the DPMS seems like a steal at its price. Can anyone convince me otherwise?

Thanks.


Well, the LaRue OBR has quite a bit more to offer. It has a continuous upper rail , port selector technology for suppressed/unsuppressed shooting, Geissele trigger, Gas Buster charging handle, and the LT-111 scope mount. Accuracy is not a question here either, people have shot 0.3 MOA groups with the 16" barrel. Reliability: it goes bang every time you pull the trigger and the brass fly out without fail. It takes Magpul mags. There is also the great customer service that LaRue is known for: "if you ain't happy, then we ain't happy." They'll make it right if ever anything goes wrong.

Ultimately it's you're choice. But if you have the chance to try it, I'm sure you'll love it. I'll leave this here for you:
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l152/rouelxprss/DSC00190.jpg

Doesn't the DPMS take the same mags?

Link Posted: 5/16/2010 7:43:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762:
Originally Posted By Narc45ACP:
Originally Posted By jd1123:
Thanks for the responses. Been reading this and other forums and people seem to give the DPMS a lot of crap. However, I've seen nothing but great reports about the rifle and the accuracy seems to be great. What does the Noveske, LMT or Larue offer over this one besides the name? What specifically is better about those brands? I understand the Noveske barrels are known for being incredibly accurate, but given the range reports, can we say that it's worth paying an extra $1200 for a Leonidas rifle?

Honestly, the DPMS seems like a steal at its price. Can anyone convince me otherwise?

Thanks.


Well, the LaRue OBR has quite a bit more to offer. It has a continuous upper rail , port selector technology for suppressed/unsuppressed shooting, Geissele trigger, Gas Buster charging handle, and the LT-111 scope mount. Accuracy is not a question here either, people have shot 0.3 MOA groups with the 16" barrel. Reliability: it goes bang every time you pull the trigger and the brass fly out without fail. It takes Magpul mags. There is also the great customer service that LaRue is known for: "if you ain't happy, then we ain't happy." They'll make it right if ever anything goes wrong.

Ultimately it's you're choice. But if you have the chance to try it, I'm sure you'll love it. I'll leave this here for you:
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l152/rouelxprss/DSC00190.jpg

Doesn't the DPMS take the same mags?


It does. I forgot that detail.
Link Posted: 5/16/2010 7:47:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Narc45ACP:
Originally Posted By guns762:
Originally Posted By Narc45ACP:
Originally Posted By jd1123:
Thanks for the responses. Been reading this and other forums and people seem to give the DPMS a lot of crap. However, I've seen nothing but great reports about the rifle and the accuracy seems to be great. What does the Noveske, LMT or Larue offer over this one besides the name? What specifically is better about those brands? I understand the Noveske barrels are known for being incredibly accurate, but given the range reports, can we say that it's worth paying an extra $1200 for a Leonidas rifle?

Honestly, the DPMS seems like a steal at its price. Can anyone convince me otherwise?

Thanks.


Well, the LaRue OBR has quite a bit more to offer. It has a continuous upper rail , port selector technology for suppressed/unsuppressed shooting, Geissele trigger, Gas Buster charging handle, and the LT-111 scope mount. Accuracy is not a question here either, people have shot 0.3 MOA groups with the 16" barrel. Reliability: it goes bang every time you pull the trigger and the brass fly out without fail. It takes Magpul mags. There is also the great customer service that LaRue is known for: "if you ain't happy, then we ain't happy." They'll make it right if ever anything goes wrong.

Ultimately it's you're choice. But if you have the chance to try it, I'm sure you'll love it. I'll leave this here for you:
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l152/rouelxprss/DSC00190.jpg

Doesn't the DPMS take the same mags?


It does. I forgot that detail.


No worries dude.   I'm learning, and trying to get things straight in my head before I purchase something.
Link Posted: 5/16/2010 8:07:58 PM EDT
Though I have no experience with the DPMS, I have heard that it, along with other Semi-Auto 308's tend to hold a good group until about the sixth shot.  After that, a flier comes out as the gun heats up.  This is not so with the OBR.  Whether you shoot 5 shots or 50 shots, the bullet path will still be the same.

Just my $.02 with my OBR.

As far as mags go, in the LT forum, someone did a great magazine writeup regarding how different mags perform with the OBR.  It seems that the LaRue Mags (well,duh) and the P-Mags are the best performers.
Link Posted: 5/16/2010 8:38:06 PM EDT
DPMS SASS, 10 shot group off a bipod at 100 yards with 180gr Winchester power points.
full value wind gusting 10-35 MPH
yes I am discounting the right hand flyer because a gust of wind blew debris into me and the rifle at the shot

Link Posted: 5/16/2010 9:54:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jd1123:
Thanks for the responses. Been reading this and other forums and people seem to give the DPMS a lot of crap. However, I've seen nothing but great reports about the rifle and the accuracy seems to be great. What does the Noveske, LMT or Larue offer over this one besides the name? What specifically is better about those brands? I understand the Noveske barrels are known for being incredibly accurate, but given the range reports, can we say that it's worth paying an extra $1200 for a Leonidas rifle?

Honestly, the DPMS seems like a steal at its price. Can anyone convince me otherwise?

Thanks.


The rifle is amazing. I think out of the 10 or so people who've shot my rifle here in Lubbock... most have realized that theirs don't compare even close to the same level. Thats comparing a REPR, AR10T, and a couple of DPMSs the only one worth mentioning, DPMS SASS no fliers but its a 9shot group because a friend took one my TAPs and used it in his 700P. I've got handload 175 SMKs and they shoot smaller groups that the one in the picture below. Thats the best I can convince otherwise. The OBR Is lighter, comes with a scope mount, 2 Larue mags that are guaranteed to work, better warranty, geiselle SSA, and a chromed BCG all as a part of its original package. It also has extras that Larue ships with it like the Dillo, otis cleaning kit, sling, and case. I've shot both, the better and higher quality rifle is the OBR. I think its lighter by at least a pound or two i think. to the SASS.

The Rifle w/ PRS, Leupold Mk4 3.5-10, MIAD. and other standard configs which include geiselles SSA trigger and a LT-111 mount

The Rifle @ different angle

First group with 168gr Hornady TAP 100yds 3x3shot groups = 9 shots

Rifle with Side canted red dot for CQB

Compare that with my RRA 5.56 for size. Don't mind the scope mount... its there temporarily cause i didn't have another place ot put it yet
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 2:53:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2010 2:53:40 AM EDT by REL1203]
Originally Posted By J75player:
DPMS SASS, 10 shot group off a bipod at 100 yards with 180gr Winchester power points.
full value wind gusting 10-35 MPH
yes I am discounting the right hand flyer because a gust of wind blew debris into me and the rifle at the shot
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/front.jpg


What front Rail system do you have on your DPMS SASS? I really like the look of that. Do you have any side profile views?

Link Posted: 5/17/2010 4:39:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By REL1203:
Originally Posted By J75player:
DPMS SASS, 10 shot group off a bipod at 100 yards with 180gr Winchester power points.
full value wind gusting 10-35 MPH
yes I am discounting the right hand flyer because a gust of wind blew debris into me and the rifle at the shot
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/front.jpg


What front Rail system do you have on your DPMS SASS? I really like the look of that. Do you have any side profile views?



Its the Badger Ordnance stabilizer rail, a little heavier then the std one, but feels really nice in the hand/points really well
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 5:11:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By J75player:
Originally Posted By REL1203:
Originally Posted By J75player:
DPMS SASS, 10 shot group off a bipod at 100 yards with 180gr Winchester power points.
full value wind gusting 10-35 MPH
yes I am discounting the right hand flyer because a gust of wind blew debris into me and the rifle at the shot
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/front.jpg


What front Rail system do you have on your DPMS SASS? I really like the look of that. Do you have any side profile views?



Its the Badger Ordnance stabilizer rail, a little heavier then the std one, but feels really nice in the hand/points really well
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/tailgate.jpg


Will any AR15 type free float hand guard work on the DMPS SASS?
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 6:05:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762:
Originally Posted By J75player:
Originally Posted By REL1203:
Originally Posted By J75player:
DPMS SASS, 10 shot group off a bipod at 100 yards with 180gr Winchester power points.
full value wind gusting 10-35 MPH
yes I am discounting the right hand flyer because a gust of wind blew debris into me and the rifle at the shot
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/front.jpg


What front Rail system do you have on your DPMS SASS? I really like the look of that. Do you have any side profile views?



Its the Badger Ordnance stabilizer rail, a little heavier then the std one, but feels really nice in the hand/points really well
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/tailgate.jpg


Will any AR15 type free float hand guard work on the DMPS SASS?


no, the bbl nut on a .308 platform is larger then the ar15 one plus the rails are almost universally larger.  you need a .308 specific handguard.

ar-15

.308
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 9:51:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2010 9:53:22 AM EDT by asiparks]
the SASS wil get you the same results as the OBR, POF-308, LMT MRP and REPR. It's an excellent., reliable, accurate rifle. The devil is in the details, do you want/need/care about having a monolithic upper, will you ever shoot suppressed, are you likely to upgrade components later, etc.
An earlier poster mentioned some of the differences between the OBR and the SASS, but the OBR is about 1K more and that's with no sights, no optics mount, no bipod and a standard A2 stock.



As pictured, and it is a bloody nice rifle, and excluding the optic and the LT111, there's likely another  $600-$700 for the Harris, a set of BUIS, and a Magpul PRS, all of which come standard on the SASS. Add a match trigger of your choice to the SASS ($250) and a Bravo Company latch ($50) and you're looking at around $2300 Vs $3600.

The OBR barrels are superbly accurate, but so are those on the SASS, POF, Leonidas etc. Unless you are already a skilled sub MOA marksman with your own handloads worked up, it's unlikely that you'd be able to wring the out the miniscule potential performance difference between them.

I very, very nearly went for either the SASS or the LMT MRP, but ended up going for the POF 308. I personally prefer the SOPMOD stock to the PRS, so I saved the cost of upgrading that, the standard  TITS trigger is, well, the tits and as I shoot with a suppressor, the adjustable gas piston made sense. It also left me with (just) enough in the kitty  to get a decent scope and mount.


just my 2 cents...
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 10:15:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2010 10:20:08 AM EDT by aznisegi]
Correction asiparks, it does come with the LT-111 optics mount. All OBRs do. There are no BUIS though. However, a bonus is the fact that the mags it comes with are made by larue and aren't going to fail on you like some of the DPMS mags that escape quality control. Also, the OBR comes with what i consider a better trigger than the JP. Though JP makes a nice single stage, for a rifle such as this, a 2 stage non-adjustable would be ideal for what most are requiring in their rifles. JP's are nice and I have one in an LR-308, but it doesn't remotely compare. I have a geiselles sitting here waiting to be changed out for that JP. The OBR comes standard with a Geiselle's SSA. I added a PRS, and a MIAD on my OBR from the factory. Put some cheap Magpul front BUIS and had an old BUIS sitting around. The LT-111 mount itself runs like 140 bucks i think. Also the OBR comes std with the chrome BCG and overall better machining. If you put any of the two next to each other you can really tell the difference. Lastly, I've yet to see someone do the customer service that larue has done. When you NEED your rifle in tip top shape, and larue can get you a part out next day, I think that speaks volumes versus 3+ weeks for getting a simple mag replacement from DPMS.

You get the quality you pay for. There isn't a free ride when it comes to your Semi Precision Rifles and weight is also a differential between the two. Let alone the rifle, the warranties between the two rifles are world apart. Take your pick

my 2 cents
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 2:23:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By aznisegi:
Correction asiparks, it does come with the LT-111 optics mount. All OBRs do. There are no BUIS though. However, a bonus is the fact that the mags it comes with are made by larue and aren't going to fail on you like some of the DPMS mags that escape quality control. Also, the OBR comes with what i consider a better trigger than the JP. Though JP makes a nice single stage, for a rifle such as this, a 2 stage non-adjustable would be ideal for what most are requiring in their rifles. JP's are nice and I have one in an LR-308, but it doesn't remotely compare. I have a geiselles sitting here waiting to be changed out for that JP. The OBR comes standard with a Geiselle's SSA. I added a PRS, and a MIAD on my OBR from the factory. Put some cheap Magpul front BUIS and had an old BUIS sitting around. The LT-111 mount itself runs like 140 bucks i think. Also the OBR comes std with the chrome BCG and overall better machining. If you put any of the two next to each other you can really tell the difference. Lastly, I've yet to see someone do the customer service that larue has done. When you NEED your rifle in tip top shape, and larue can get you a part out next day, I think that speaks volumes versus 3+ weeks for getting a simple mag replacement from DPMS.

You get the quality you pay for. There isn't a free ride when it comes to your Semi Precision Rifles and weight is also a differential between the two. Let alone the rifle, the warranties between the two rifles are world apart. Take your pick

my 2 cents


Thanks for the assist. And the LT-111 sells for $245 if bought separately. What you get out of the box with the basic rifle are:
LaRue OBR in 16", 18", or 20"
A2 flash hider
A2 grip
A2 stock
Port selector technology
Chromed BCG
Geissele trigger
LT-111 scope mount with either 30 or 34 mm rings (I don't know if they'll give out with the package forever)
2 LT 20-round .308 mags
LT padded sling and sling mount
Otis micro cleaning kit
Machine gunners lube
Rifle case
LT hat
LT dillo
Dillo dust
LTs fantastic customer service

Right out of the box the basic package is ready to shoot if you have a scope available. I say it's a pretty darn good set-up already especially with the chrome BCG and the Geissele trigger already in there. The port selector is a big plus if you shoot suppressed. Options that would cost you more are the muzzle device, grip, stock, sights, scope. For me the $2,995 price tag for the OBR is a good value already made even better by their customer service. You just can't beat their customer service and that is worth a ton if you're looking to keep the rifle for a very long time.


Link Posted: 5/17/2010 2:49:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2010 5:14:36 PM EDT by jd1123]
Guy,

All this information is excellent. This is exactly the type of discussion I was looking for, thank you.

If price did not come into the equation, I think I would opt for the Larue OBR, but I'm beginning to think that the DPMS offers a serious value. I am going to outline the differences between the two rifles below. Please correct me if I've stated anything incorrectly.

DPMS SASS Advantages:

1) Bipod included
2) Magpul PRS stock
3) Flip up BUIS included
4) Price - about 1k less than the OBR

Larue OBR Advantages

1) LT111 Optic mount included
2) Weight advantage - 18" is about 1.75 lbs lighter
3) Geiselle SSA Trigger included - SASS has a JP Adjustable
4) Adjustable gas block - not gas piston as stated before
5) Ready for attachable suppressor
6) Monolithic rail included
7) Better warranty and legendary Larue customer service - can somebody elaborate a bit on the warranty differences?

Perhaps the OBR is a bit more accurate than the SASS, but it seems like both are pretty great in that department.

Does anyone know about the differences between the barrels?

Thanks again.

EDIT: corrected OBR advantages above. OBR is DI, as stated below.
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 3:24:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2010 3:26:40 PM EDT by asiparks]
Maybe i stand corrected then, maybe i don't, on the website it specifically states:
"Base Model comes complete with A2 Rifle Stock and A2 Grip, A2 Flash Hider, plus two M110-compatible, 20-round magazines.
scope, rings and bipod not included in price".
here

I don't question LaRues quality or his customer service.. I have 2 SPR-Es and a cantilevered AP mount. They're great.  I think my Bobro mount is much better. My IOR has an ADM mount as LaRue doesn't have a 35mm ringed mount, what I'm saying is I weigh my options objectively, not slavishly.
Obviously, your money to do with as you please, but the op asked about how the DMPS compared at 2/3 the cost. As you did, i offered my opinion, and added that to kit the OBR out as you have, you're going a decent chunk above the $2995. Say $3500 to upgrade to the PRS, Harris and LT 130 adaptor + a set of BUIS. And assuming the LT 111 is still free. That is ball park isn't it ?
SASS ($1849 - $1999 ) + giselle ($179 for the 2 stage SSA) + say $50 for a BC latch and handle. $36 for a couple of ...what's that in your gun Narc45..oh yeah, Pmags. that still leaves about $1200 for fun ammo (3200 rounds of decent Belgium), or a not bad scope and rings.
Like I said, yours is a bloody nice rifle. But unless you're a 1/2 moa guy firing your 1/2 moa loads, ( and hey, congrats if you are ! ) the SASS is going to do the same thing and allow the OP a lot of fun range time.
Other options, the LMT MRP seems to have won over us Brits, that's around $2400 nicely kitted, same as the  POF, which is piston, with a suppressed setting, NP3 coated billet receiver, CROS internals (trumps chrome i believe), solid top rail, tits trigger, pmags, ambi controls, much respected Mike Rock barrel.....which is where i ended up, because that's what worked for my needs. Y'all may jump out of helicopters more often then me though....

OP..you summed it up above nicely except #4. The OBR is direct impingment with an adjustable gas block. It's not a gas piston.
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 3:40:50 PM EDT
I have one and it is a nice rifle, I'm sure the Larue is very nice as well but its more expensive.  Some here have a serious issue with brand loyalty and you would think any gun but their gun sucks.  Take the nut huggers with a grain of salt, I tend not to listein to them because they usually have no fucking clue what they are talking about.  

My DPMS goes bang everytime, is extrememly accurate and is a blast to shot.  Will the Larue be that much better doubt it!  

BTW I buy Larue stuff I just get tired of all the nut huggers.
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 4:56:56 PM EDT
Also, I forgot to add, I think the new upper receivers from DPMS won't fit any aftermarket rails anymore. They've been moved off slightly to keep other competitors from selling rails for their rifles. Another thing with the SASS you should take into account is the fact that it is 12lbs scope not included. You lose alot of that with the OBR instead. Is it worht a 1000+ to you? Well, that depends on where your tracking and how often you shoot freehanded. SASS's have also had feeding problems. This is coming from DPMS themselves and coppell SWAT. They've since fixed the problem I believe. What you get with the DPMS is indeed a nice rifle, but its like trying to substitute a RIA 1911 for a Colt 1911. They just aren't the same.

Lastly, the DPMS rails are not always to mil-spec. Therefore, some have had trouble with scope mounts and quick release mounts. This may not matter to you but more information than less is better and let you sort it out. I've shot both... and hell the LR-308 platform is great and the SASS is only an improvement. DPMS's will go bang, but their warranty won't when you use non-US milsurp ammo. As i assume coldsteele is calling narc and I a nuthugger, take it from someone who's owned and sold most other semi 308s. I've gone from an M1A as a project gun to get it to shoot accurately and gave up miseralby. Then i went to a AR-10T and wasn't satisfied. Then i went with a LR-308 24" bull barrel. This was the first one I could get to shoot very well without having to practically replace all the parts for a better performing gun. After that and speaking with 2 army snipers, and a swat member, they all said, you get waht you pay for. You may not notice it on day 1, but on day 365 down the road, if you put your rifle through heavy usage you will begin to know. I'm not all about the OBR, i'd say go SR-25 EMC if u have the money to spill. Great rifle, great quality, great gun. You could also go with the LMT 308. Same thing as the SR-25 and the OBR in terms of accuracy dependability and performance. Its a choice you end up making. But as most have seen going with the cheaper option rarely fares to be the better option unfortunately. This has been held true especially with my experience with Larue. I've shot'em all and you do get what u pay for. When and if my life depends on that rifle, I don't wanna have to guess whether or not its going to go "bang" 2-3 even 20 years down the road.
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 5:44:54 PM EDT
Who makes the mags for Larue?
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 7:26:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By aznisegi:
Also, I forgot to add, I think the new upper receivers from DPMS won't fit any aftermarket rails anymore. They've been moved off slightly to keep other competitors from selling rails for their rifles. Another thing with the SASS you should take into account is the fact that it is 12lbs scope not included. You lose alot of that with the OBR instead. Is it worht a 1000+ to you? Well, that depends on where your tracking and how often you shoot freehanded. SASS's have also had feeding problems. This is coming from DPMS themselves and coppell SWAT. They've since fixed the problem I believe. What you get with the DPMS is indeed a nice rifle, but its like trying to substitute a RIA 1911 for a Colt 1911. They just aren't the same.

Lastly, the DPMS rails are not always to mil-spec. Therefore, some have had trouble with scope mounts and quick release mounts. This may not matter to you but more information than less is better and let you sort it out. I've shot both... and hell the LR-308 platform is great and the SASS is only an improvement. DPMS's will go bang, but their warranty won't when you use non-US milsurp ammo. As i assume coldsteele is calling narc and I a nuthugger, take it from someone who's owned and sold most other semi 308s. I've gone from an M1A as a project gun to get it to shoot accurately and gave up miseralby. Then i went to a AR-10T and wasn't satisfied. Then i went with a LR-308 24" bull barrel. This was the first one I could get to shoot very well without having to practically replace all the parts for a better performing gun. After that and speaking with 2 army snipers, and a swat member, they all said, you get waht you pay for. You may not notice it on day 1, but on day 365 down the road, if you put your rifle through heavy usage you will begin to know. I'm not all about the OBR, i'd say go SR-25 EMC if u have the money to spill. Great rifle, great quality, great gun. You could also go with the LMT 308. Same thing as the SR-25 and the OBR in terms of accuracy dependability and performance. Its a choice you end up making. But as most have seen going with the cheaper option rarely fares to be the better option unfortunately. This has been held true especially with my experience with Larue. I've shot'em all and you do get what u pay for. When and if my life depends on that rifle, I don't wanna have to guess whether or not its going to go "bang" 2-3 even 20 years down the road.


how much does the OBR 18" weight?  the site lists it at 9.7lbs empty for the 16,18, and 20 in bbl's. I'm guessing that the 9.7 is for the 16 inch, and the 18in would weight in just over 10 lbs. not sure if the weight on the SASS includes the bipod or not, but its listed at 11.50 lbs

no mil-surplus ammo will not void the warranty, just reloads and lightmag stuff. and realy if your rifle is damaged because of poor ammo, why would you hold the rifle mfg responsable?
can find the warranty info on the larue site.

as far as price, yes generaly you get what you pay for. but there is a differance between a "cheap" product and one that is a good deal.
" our rifles are both reliable, tight, and shoot sub MOA all day long. but mines better because i payed 30% more then yours"?
i'v owen alot of AR's as well, currently, all mine are DPMS. they all run perfect and shoot tight, and cost less then a colt
not knocking the OBR, it looks like a sweet rig! but i cant bring myself to pay that much more for a rig with no benefit in performance.
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 7:38:50 PM EDT
I think the weight of the SASS includes the bipod, which is 15oz according to dealers who sell the Harris Ultralight. DPMS makes a very similar rifle (the REPR) which seems to use a lot of the same stuff, does not come with a bipod and weighs ~9.5lbs according to the website. Hard to get a good idea of weight differences without actually being able to see both rifles side by side, which probably won't happen.
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 8:02:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jd1123:
I think the weight of the SASS includes the bipod, which is 15oz according to dealers who sell the Harris Ultralight. DPMS makes a very similar rifle (the REPR) which seems to use a lot of the same stuff, does not come with a bipod and weighs ~9.5lbs according to the website. Hard to get a good idea of weight differences without actually being able to see both rifles side by side, which probably won't happen.


If someone here would like to send me an OBR I'd be happy to compare...
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 8:06:17 PM EDT
The OP asked to be convinced of the benefits of the other rifles aside from the SASS, now I'm being called a nut hugger because I gave my opinion as an OBR owner. What a shame because I thought we were all having a good conversation here.

If the basis for assessing the better rifle is the affordability then the SASS wins. I never said that my OBR is better because it's more 30% more expensive than the SASS, I gave my points already and will not reiterate them anymore. If you are saying that you're going to buy a rifle that can shoot 1/2 MOA all the time only if you are good enough to shoot that well, then that's you and I respect your opinion. For me, I'm constantly trying to improve myself through busting my own limitations and working the gun to it's full potential.

And by the way, I wasn't born with all the money in the world... I worked my ass off and saved my money to afford my OBR because I know it's worth it. If somebody wants to call me a nut hugger for thinking that the OBR is worth the money, then you can call me that all day long... I will not argue with a hater.

Link Posted: 5/17/2010 8:14:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2010 8:19:59 PM EDT by aznisegi]
I've compared them side by side as well as the OBR and the REPR (LWRC's) side by side. With the larue bipod on there and everything standard except the magpul and the miad, the difference in the rifles is 1.2 lbs heavier for the SASS on a conventional scale (I know not ideal for perfect measuring but i slinged it up and stepped on one after another this was done twice and unless i got fatter between weigh ins, i'd say its the rifle. This is with the same stock (because magpuls are beefy both had them), same scopes on the LT-111 mount (was the only way to get a fair comparison without swapping my optics out of rings) (if you spend the 240 for the LT-111 thats adding  $250 cost to you, just FYI), BUIS, and one using larue bipod the other using the conventional harris 6-9" ultralight. I've fired both suppressed and unsuppressed (dunno if this matters) but the OBR didn't choke once with the switch, while the SASS did just about every other round =/. As for balance, the OBR 18", cause its the one we compared, has a balance right at the trigger guard/magwell meeting point. OBR shoots more consistently even when heating up. 10 rnds 3x times into a target at 100 yds yielded consistent sub moa groups for the OBR. The sass held in just the same until the last time around. We noticed some verticle stringing closing the group right around 1 MOA, which was still more than tolerable (this was done with 168gr FGMM). All of this was done in the same day at the range. The SASS is well made but it also is worse quality than the OBR. This is for several reasons (1) The rails are not uniform. Putting the quick detach on and off of different sections of the rail yielded different tension, and not just a little different, it was enough to wiggle. I like the SASS BUIS, but the DPMS mags were unanimously seen by 3 PD officers as being the weaker of the mags. The tolerances on tilt of the springs were worse and lighter for the DPMS. Both rifles ran through a PMAG just fine and ran through all the mags just fine. I would've done a "truck run over" test on both rifles, but i didn't want either one sent back for warranty. I know i'd get my OBR back fixed and ready to run if not a new one, and I know that the DPMS would probably see its last round fired (not my rifle, i probably shoudn't it over though we thought about it). SASS had a regular BCG, beefy and sturdy, but comparing both BCG's together the Larue was built to much better and accurate tolerances and chromed. I have a REPR comparison somewhere around here too. I'm not saying the SASS is a bad rifle, I'm saying its quality is worse than the OBR, LMT, and SRs out there.

As for non-US milsurp ammo being used, it does void the warranty. DPMS stated over the phone to several individuals already that 7.62 NATO rifles were not to be fired with 308 and vice versa, i think it even says it on their site, someone check plz. They were also not supposed to be eating any foreign stuff. I don't shoot it for accuracy but I do like to know I can shoot it if i need to. Has nothing to do with the ammo, it has everything to do with "will the ammo function correctly IN YOUR RIFLE." The SASS is a great rifle, however, the OBR is in a different grade of quality. Some say its minute, others seem to differ when they hold them side by side. 20MOA decline on the OBR also helps, some like it some don't if u don't go with the LMT or SR-25 EMC. I seem to like it alot as it gives me more MOA to adjust while still leaving plenty of room before i bottom out. If you add the optics mount, your looking at 2250 roughly for the SASS. The OBR is more expensive BUT if u add in all its extras into the SASS, I think ur looking at less than a 500 difference for better machining, IMHO a better trigger, milspec parts, better warranty, LW50 barrels which are much better and much more durable that typical stainless, lighter, more durable, and more goodies for the rifle.

As for the DPMS REPR, I haven't shot nor played with one so can't really comment on it. Looks great, looks cool. Only thing i can tell aesthetically is that the rails are very skeletonized to reduce weight.

Young, Larue makes their own mags for the OBR right now, but PMAGS and other comparable mags run just as well in their OBR. Tested everyone of them. Only ones I've seen run bad in the OBR are the same ones that can't run in any other gun ( i e. bad c-products mags). DPMS ships with their mags but they've been known to have problems too
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 8:15:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Altair:
Originally Posted By jd1123:
I think the weight of the SASS includes the bipod, which is 15oz according to dealers who sell the Harris Ultralight. DPMS makes a very similar rifle (the REPR) which seems to use a lot of the same stuff, does not come with a bipod and weighs ~9.5lbs according to the website. Hard to get a good idea of weight differences without actually being able to see both rifles side by side, which probably won't happen.


If someone here would like to send me an OBR I'd be happy to compare...


Sorry for the double post, If you wanna come to lubbock TX lemme know and we'll shoot side by side :D
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 9:46:56 PM EDT
aznisegi––––-very well written.


and I have a DPMS SASS.

The only thing I did not agree with is DPMS told me and several others that 308 could be shot in the SASS. This was last year. Maybe I should ask them again to see what answer I get this year.


But everything else seemed well put.
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 10:37:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By west2746:
aznisegi––––-very well written.


and I have a DPMS SASS.

The only thing I did not agree with is DPMS told me and several others that 308 could be shot in the SASS. This was last year. Maybe I should ask them again to see what answer I get this year.


But everything else seemed well put.


Thanks, I think its a liability thing. This is just the recent news around the block. Back when the SASS first came out I had a whole crap load of PD buds pick it up since it was available readily for Law Enforcement and back then they didn't raise and issue about any of hte ammo. I think this was in the last 5 months, if that, that they changed the policy. Most of my SASS buds love their rifles, but the ones that picked up the OBR sold their SASS rifles because they ran their own torture tests on the rifles and quality checks. If you find out, let me know once in for all. I kinda of want a LMT 308 16 or maybe a SR-25 EMC. Both are brilliant guns as is the SASS. but the SASS is now 2-3 years out of the updates and alot of things have since been solved when they reinvented the AR platform with a 30 cal round.
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 11:14:53 PM EDT
This was what DPMS had listed on their Industry page here....
––––––––––––––––––-
As far as DPMS rifles go, you can use both 7.62x51mm and .308 Winchester in the 7.62x51mm chamber without issue.

We do not suggest using 7.62x51 in a 308 due to inconsistencies with the overall length of the brass in some, especially foreign made 7.62, as it tends to cause extraction problems in the .308 chamber.

For that reason we do not warranty the use of 7.62 in your .308
––––––––––––––––––
To me this seems backwards from what I have learned about 7.62/308 ammo but somebody smarter then me once said... when in doubt use what the gun maker tells you...they made the gun.


For me my SASS is a toy/hobby. The gun shoots better then I do at my current level. I went with the DPMS over others including building my own due to cost. No matter how I priced things the factory built DPMS SASS was the best deal for ME. I will prob not shoot my rifle enough to wear it out. Now if this rifle was going to be used for something more then this I prob could have justified to my self the higher cost for other rifles. I really liked the LWRC but I just could not spend that much in my mind for the LWRC rifle.

OP...you will get people who like one over the other for both. Some responses here have useful info and some really doesn't help you decide unless you are going with a popular vote to decide. I well tell you what I like to tell people when they ask which gun should I buy. Shoot both if possible ....handle both if possible. Determine what you plan to use the rifle for and how your skill level is? What can you afford (do not forget the extras and a good scope), will you upgrade or change things out as you improve your skill, will this be your only rifle of this type and is this the only one you will ever buy. Then make a choice and be happy.

I do not know enough to say which you should buy...most of above is just some things to think over.
Link Posted: 5/17/2010 11:32:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By REL1203:
I have had one for about 2 months, and shot it only one weekend, about 100 shots, so I really was just breaking it in, and sighting in the optics, but man its fun and accurate.

Here are my last 5 shots at 100 Yards, with cheap ammo and a very warm barrel on a day with 20-25MPH crosswinds.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Ep01MeuwgNA/S-X0LhVXEHI/AAAAAAAAIPg/NyRY79WBgYM/s912/IMG_2222.JPG


I am VERY happy with it. I am still learning how to shoot longer distances, this is my first rifle that is aimed at more than just 100yards, but its pretty awesome so far


+1

my dpms sass which i had built using all dpms parts except the rail (which i do not like) shoots exactly like this picture above, @100 and believe it, it just barely opens up at 200.
i am using 168 grain sierra MK. i think i have at least 1000 rnds through it and typically, i shoot IPSC steel targets at 700 to 800 yds consistently. works great and since I do not like recoil, (like i hate the  recolil of 223 ) that i use the most efffective comp I can get my hands on. the best one i feel that has great reduction of felt recoil are SJC (which i used) and rolling thunder.
Link Posted: 5/18/2010 6:44:15 AM EDT
I'll tell you this- it is hard to beat the bang for the buck provided by the DPMS SASS. I got a new one off GB with a leupold, larue mount, 4 KAC mags, several DPMS mags, sling and an Otis for just north of 3 k. I love the rifle- it goes bang each and every time I pull the trigger and hits what I aim at. Better rifles can be had if price is no object but at this price point you simply can't touch it.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 5/18/2010 6:56:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By aznisegi:
Originally Posted By Altair:
Originally Posted By jd1123:
I think the weight of the SASS includes the bipod, which is 15oz according to dealers who sell the Harris Ultralight. DPMS makes a very similar rifle (the REPR) which seems to use a lot of the same stuff, does not come with a bipod and weighs ~9.5lbs according to the website. Hard to get a good idea of weight differences without actually being able to see both rifles side by side, which probably won't happen.


If someone here would like to send me an OBR I'd be happy to compare...


Sorry for the double post, If you wanna come to lubbock TX lemme know and we'll shoot side by side :D


I don't make it to TX much, I'm from IN.  Thanks for the offer though, I'd definitely take you up on it.
Link Posted: 5/18/2010 6:59:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By west2746:
This was what DPMS had listed on their Industry page here....
––––––––––––––––––-
As far as DPMS rifles go, you can use both 7.62x51mm and .308 Winchester in the 7.62x51mm chamber without issue.

We do not suggest using 7.62x51 in a 308 due to inconsistencies with the overall length of the brass in some, especially foreign made 7.62, as it tends to cause extraction problems in the .308 chamber.

For that reason we do not warranty the use of 7.62 in your .308
––––––––––––––––––
To me this seems backwards from what I have learned about 7.62/308 ammo but somebody smarter then me once said... when in doubt use what the gun maker tells you...they made the gun.


For me my SASS is a toy/hobby. The gun shoots better then I do at my current level. I went with the DPMS over others including building my own due to cost. No matter how I priced things the factory built DPMS SASS was the best deal for ME. I will prob not shoot my rifle enough to wear it out. Now if this rifle was going to be used for something more then this I prob could have justified to my self the higher cost for other rifles. I really liked the LWRC but I just could not spend that much in my mind for the LWRC rifle.

OP...you will get people who like one over the other for both. Some responses here have useful info and some really doesn't help you decide unless you are going with a popular vote to decide. I well tell you what I like to tell people when they ask which gun should I buy. Shoot both if possible ....handle both if possible. Determine what you plan to use the rifle for and how your skill level is? What can you afford (do not forget the extras and a good scope), will you upgrade or change things out as you improve your skill, will this be your only rifle of this type and is this the only one you will ever buy. Then make a choice and be happy.

I do not know enough to say which you should buy...most of above is just some things to think over.


As I understand it, .308 Win can be loaded to higher pressures than 7.62x51.  The older military 7.62 rifles couldn't handle the higher pressure of the commercial ammo.  Newer 7.62x51 rifles can so the only real difference is that the 7.62 chambers hand looser headspacing.  Since the .308 chamber has tighter headspace specs, it can choke up on 7.62x51 ammo if the ammo is loaded for the longer headspace.  So you can shoot both in a modern .308 but not necessarily in a modern .308.  

I'm not an expert, so if I've said something wrong someone will be along to correct me shortly.
Link Posted: 5/18/2010 10:55:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Altair:
Originally Posted By aznisegi:
Originally Posted By Altair:
Originally Posted By jd1123:
I think the weight of the SASS includes the bipod, which is 15oz according to dealers who sell the Harris Ultralight. DPMS makes a very similar rifle (the REPR) which seems to use a lot of the same stuff, does not come with a bipod and weighs ~9.5lbs according to the website. Hard to get a good idea of weight differences without actually being able to see both rifles side by side, which probably won't happen.


If someone here would like to send me an OBR I'd be happy to compare...


Sorry for the double post, If you wanna come to lubbock TX lemme know and we'll shoot side by side :D


I don't make it to TX much, I'm from IN.  Thanks for the offer though, I'd definitely take you up on it.


How far from St. Louis are you?

Link Posted: 5/18/2010 12:22:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kujoe:
Originally Posted By Altair:
Originally Posted By aznisegi:
Originally Posted By Altair:
Originally Posted By jd1123:
I think the weight of the SASS includes the bipod, which is 15oz according to dealers who sell the Harris Ultralight. DPMS makes a very similar rifle (the REPR) which seems to use a lot of the same stuff, does not come with a bipod and weighs ~9.5lbs according to the website. Hard to get a good idea of weight differences without actually being able to see both rifles side by side, which probably won't happen.


If someone here would like to send me an OBR I'd be happy to compare...


Sorry for the double post, If you wanna come to lubbock TX lemme know and we'll shoot side by side :D


I don't make it to TX much, I'm from IN.  Thanks for the offer though, I'd definitely take you up on it.


How far from St. Louis are you?



About 5 hours.
Link Posted: 5/18/2010 1:18:28 PM EDT
This is exactly the information I was looking for. Cost being equal, I would definitely go with the Larue, but I can't justify the price difference for my situation. I currently shoot steel case russian ammo from 100 yards, and I'm just looking for a .308 semi auto to get something different. I think, at this point, the Larue is a bit too much gun and the DPMS is just right.

Now the question is where can I get one of these, preferably at a place that could make modifications. Anyone have any suggestions?
Link Posted: 5/18/2010 2:22:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2010 2:23:19 PM EDT by asiparks]
As you're asking who can do them, (implying that they're beyond a grip/stock or trigger change out) what kind of mods are you thinking ?
You should maybe get the rifle, shoot it first, then mod as needed.
If you're going to do a lot of mods, that take you far from the stock SASS or cost extra money you might be better off starting with a base rifle and building up, or a different rifle based upon your actual, real end use.....
Sign up at snipershide.com. There's a lot of good info over there.
Link Posted: 5/18/2010 3:52:40 PM EDT
I have a SASS, since early 2007 when they came with Vltor clubfoot stocks.  The Armalite Super SASS was released about 15 months later and $1000 higher.  In the M110 trials, I think the order was KAC, Remington/DPMS, then Armalite.

Remember, the SASS was one of the first 'factory custom' highly accurate .308 ARs that was available and affordable.  The market has grown immensely.  Competition makes everyone improve.  If the trials were held again, the field would be crowded.

DPMS is coming out with their Marine Corp. version, called the REPR.  It is a few pounds lighter than the current SASS, mostly due to barrel profile.  Barrel is nitro-carburized.  It is already on their website, but still about 6 months out.
Link Posted: 5/18/2010 4:19:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jd1123:
This is exactly the information I was looking for. Cost being equal, I would definitely go with the Larue, but I can't justify the price difference for my situation. I currently shoot steel case russian ammo from 100 yards, and I'm just looking for a .308 semi auto to get something different. I think, at this point, the Larue is a bit too much gun and the DPMS is just right.

Now the question is where can I get one of these, preferably at a place that could make modifications. Anyone have any suggestions?


Looks like you got it figured out. I think the best places to look for a SASS currently is either one gunbroker or maybe gunsamerica. I don't know if they're the cheapest but they usually have the DPMS SASS pop up every so often. Then you can make the modifications on your own. This would be the fastest way. Triggers, handguards/rails (so long as they are ordered from DPMS), BUIS, grips, scope mounts, and stock are easy home jobs to perform on it by yourself.

Option B would be to go with DPMS directly and order factory custom. I think there's still a wait going, roughly 5-6 months, before you can get a factory custom SASS. Most of the modifications to an AR, depending on how heavily you'd like to mod, can be done easily in your own home if you go with the above. Just know that DPMS has their handguards a little bit off from every other handguard manufacturer so aftermarket, non-dpms handguards, will not fit correctly with the newer uppers coming from DPMS.

best of luck to ya and post some range reports!
Link Posted: 5/19/2010 12:21:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2010 12:35:15 AM EDT by west2746]
Originally Posted By asiparks:
As you're asking who can do them, (implying that they're beyond a grip/stock or trigger change out) what kind of mods are you thinking ?
You should maybe get the rifle, shoot it first, then mod as needed.
If you're going to do a lot of mods, that take you far from the stock SASS or cost extra money you might be better off starting with a base rifle and building up, or a different rifle based upon your actual, real end use.....
Sign up at snipershide.com. There's a lot of good info over there.


VERY GOOD POINT HERE. If you start changing to much stuff out then your price point/cost goes up. To many changes then you should just spend the extra from the start and get something like the OSR. Or like he said...start with a cheaper base model DPMS and build it up to what you want. The DPMS SASS is the best bang for buck if you are not changing to much. Change the rail and that adds at least $200 to $400. Change the trigger to something better then your looking $180 to $260 or more. Thats two changed parts and how much closer are you to the OSR?

As far as where––-Gunbroker, local gun shops, PKfirearms, RRarms.com, rguns.net. These are the places I've seen them. I had one on order from rguns for several months. Happened to find some in stock at RRarms.com and bought it there. I think I paid just under $2100 to get it from them to my hands. Since then I've seen them listed there again and on pkfirearms. My local store even had one for a few weeks.

RGUNS.Net has them listed in stock...I would call quick as their webpage could be wrong. I would not order one from them unless they had it in the store and able to ship.
Link Posted: 5/19/2010 7:23:32 AM EDT
has Rguns reputation changed?     It was heavily avoided by arfcommers for many years.
Link Posted: 5/19/2010 12:29:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762:
has Rguns reputation changed?     It was heavily avoided by arfcommers for many years.


As far as I know...No...My expirence with them I had no issue placing an order and then cancealing it. The people on the phone were fine when I called them 2x over the few months while waiting for my order. I cancealled it because found the rifle in stock somewhere else. Rguns stated from the start there was a long back log for the rifle and gave a minium wait of 4 months but said it would prob be much longer. This was what DPMS was stating on their own webpage. So my 1 time expirence was fine BUT I have read several negative posts about customer service issues. I have also seen some post people made saying if you call them and the item is in stock-confirmed in stock then they are easy to deal with.

I only suggested them because of the places I listed I have seen them, besides gunbroker, they are the only ones showing in stock. Again do not place order on the webpage unless you have confirmed the item really is in stock by talking with them on the phone. They also list the cheapest price I've seen.



Link Posted: 6/3/2010 8:27:54 PM EDT
For anybody still looking for the SASS. RRarms.com has 5 listed instock for $1816.00. Just FYI.
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