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Posted: 10/22/2004 7:24:16 PM EST
Does any one own any dpms rifles carbines, heavey barrels or any complete rifle made by them?? I am thinking of buying my son's first ar a dpms panther carbine with the 16" barrel and 6 position stock and m4 chrome moly barrel with a2 birdcage. i just would like to see if the finish and fit is as good as bushmaster or RRA. I know its no colt but i own bushmasters and im very pleased with them. I havnt owned anything else but. My dad owns a colt m4 so i know the quality is there on a Colt. But now im interested in getting a Dpms. so if anyone has opinions on dpms please tell me all about it. thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:02:23 PM EST
They claim to have improved the fit- which makes my hair stand up.
Tight chambers and cracked bolts are what DPMS is kind of famous for.
If you want DPMS go to CMMG- they seem to have much better quality control
than the manufacturer.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:13:06 AM EST
I had a DPMS 24" heavy barrel that shot great. A usual range session would result in .2"-.3" 3 shot groups with federal GMM 69 grain SMK's. The only reason I don't still have it is I sold the upper to help fund a new project with the lower since the expiration of the ban. I had no problems with it in the 2 years that I owned it.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:00:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 5:01:34 AM EST by Banzai]
I have 3 DPMS rifles. 1 I assembeled from parts (cast lower) and it has worked fine with a great parts fit. The other is a lefty A2 (for my brother) that has about 3k rounds through it. I would call it a picky rifle, but only because it seems to have problems with the same lot # of Q3131 that everyone else has, but shoots all of my handloads w/o any problems and just seems to love Wolf (I know, I know, but I started this rifle with Wolf just to see what/if it would break it and it hasn't yet).

The 3rd one that I have is my NM DCM rifle. The only thing I've ever done was to put a Jewell trigger in it and have Compass Lake Engineering look over it and put in a hooded peep sight on the A2 rear sights. I've shot it a total of 2987 rounds (from my record book!) and it has never failed me once. I hold a Master rating, and next year I will probably rebarrel with a Kreiger just to keep my confidence level up.

I have had better luck with drop free (max spec) magazine wells with DPMS than any other brand. Doesn't mean that they rattle, but all 100 of my 30 rounders and all 72 of my 20 rounders drop free from all 3 of my DPMS lowers. The only other one that I have that even comes close is my Colt SP1(about 90%), followed by a tie between my Bushmasters/RRA(about 75%), with last being my Mega/Aimeetec/Grizzlys (at about 50%). I absolutely hate the one and only Oly that I have ever owned, and sold that lower but kept the 9mm A1 upper(flawless).

I like my DPMS. They've always been good rifles for me, and several of my MUCH more expensive ARs have had tons of problems.

Depending on the lower, it will probably be black annodized and then teflon moly coated. Mine wear very well, as hard as my Colt/BM. Very black.

I work at a gunshop. I keep track of the sales log and the repair log for the gunsmith. We sell about 6-8 ARs a month, combination of BM/DPMS/Oly/RRA/Colt, in that order, as well as any custom order. I cannot locate a single Colt, RRA, or DPMS repair that required anything other than a cleaning first and some owner education. We have a repair rate of about 10% for BM, and A LOT higher (6x) for Oly(mostly the Plinker model). This covers rifles sold from 1998 to present.

As a guide, of the guns brought in for service, about 75%, especially semi loading pistols/rifles, only require a detaiiled cleaning and proper lubrication to restore full function. About 10% are ammunition related, and the rest are actual material failures related to abuse/design/wear/fabrication material that require parts fabrication/replacement/fitting.

I hope this helps.

Tom

edited to update my numbers.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:21:56 PM EST
I have a new AP4 (M4) DPMS rifle and it has functioned perfectly right from the 1st shot. Fit and finish are excellent, as good as any of the Bushys I have owned.

Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:16:03 AM EST
Tight chambers and cracked bolts are what DPMS is kind of famous for.


DPMS and many other mfgs have had customers with problems from buying match rifles in .223 and firing cheap junk ammo. You CAN buy inexpensive good quality ammo that will function smoothly.

Some years back a batch of bad bolts was put out by one maker that went to several manufacturers, not just DPMS. This is not an ongoing problem, and was corrected.

I have two DPMS rifles, and they run well with M193 and M855 type ammo from Win, Fed, Rem, S.African battle packs, and Israeli Military Industries, as well as my handloads. I have avoided other surplus ammo and Russian made ammo.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:45:07 AM EST
Have never had any problems with any of their rifles, including the one I built myself from their parts - excellent accuracy
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:59:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 7:00:04 AM EST by CJan_NH]
My one and only factory DPMS rifle suffered two cracked bolts and multiple ejection problems. I ended up selling it at a loss to an AR tinkerer.

That being said the ejection problems were most likely my own damn fault. At the time I didn't know the difference between 5.56 milsurp and 223. I fed my 223 match chambered rifle a steady diet of milsurp 5.56. To the rifles credit it fed fine with no issues whatsoever. The broken bolts were supposedly a material issue that DPMS has since sorted out. Since I no longer run DPMS parts I don't know firsthand if that material issue has been fixed or not.

Recently I helped a friend build an AR on a teflon coated, forged DPMS lower. The finish on that lower was a thing of beauty, and it was perfectly in spec. My initial impression was sufficient to make me consider using their lowers in the future
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:01:58 AM EST
I Had 2 DPMS rifles
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 8:11:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Tight chambers and cracked bolts are what DPMS is kind of famous for.


DPMS and many other mfgs have had customers with problems from buying match rifles in .223 and firing cheap junk ammo. You CAN buy inexpensive good quality ammo that will function smoothly.


Funny that 'cheap junk' ammo runs just fine through my Bushy's.



Some years back a batch of bad bolts was put out by one maker that went to several manufacturers, not just DPMS. This is not an ongoing problem, and was corrected.


I've only heard about it with DPMS and still hearing reports on cracked bolts...
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:20:10 PM EST
The company was National Aero Space in FL. they are no longer owned by the same owner. They manufactured milspec bolts and supplied them to numerous mfgs. They had received a wrong batch of steel and produced bolts with DPMS receiving some of the first. When reports came into DPMS they contacted there vendor who upon investigating learned of the steel mixup and recalled the bolts from whoever they had sold them towith not many more reaching the civilian market. This all happened in the early 90's and still is being dredged up from time to time.
Yes I have heard of colts, bush'ys and armalites blowing up and cracking bolts also in the past 30+years since I first started shooting these rifles. Personally I had a colt sp1 completely blow out a lower receiver and bolt and carrier assy using 223 Fed AE 55fmj and before you ask the headspace was correct and in spec, possible cause, bullet jambed back in case on feeding causing compressed load. Point being any body can have a bad day and some just keep hearing about it over and over again.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 4:25:47 PM EST
I purchased one of the first DPMS in a .308 18" rifle. It won't feed Aussie surplus, and it doesn't like 150grain bullets in factory ammo. I sent the rifle back to DPMS. They replaced/adjusted the extractor and per my request, tightened up the slop in the upper/lower fit. Funny, the owners manuals mentions the tight upper/lower fit. Not, out of the box, but easy enough to correct. DPMS reccommends 165gr bullets. I polished the chamber and started shooting handloads with 165gr match bullets and Varget. (Handloads, as stated in the DPMS manual, will void your warranty) I'm not an exceptional marksman, but the accurarcy I'm getting is great for me. No more FTF. I'm happy with the rifle and DPMS service. Now if they would just get the steel magazines out and give me a decent trade-in on the plastic 10 rounders they sold with the rifle. I'm looking at a new shorty upper for my Bushmaster and wouldn't have any issue with a purchase from DPMS.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 4:45:36 PM EST
I have a DPMS Panther Race Gun and I have had 0 problems with it. So I'd buy another DPMS if the price was right.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 4:52:58 PM EST

This all happened in the early 90's and still is being dredged up from time to time.

It sounds like some of those bolts are either still floating around, or DPMS still has some issues.

From Pat Rogers, posted 6/16/2003:

"We had a husband / wife team out to take a 223 class, with some type of fluted bbl/ exotic DPMS carbines. His ran- hers didn't. Major extracting problems, due to "match" chamber.
She completed the class with my (Colt) M4.
Next year she came back but replaced the "match" fluted bbl with a DPMS M4 profile bbl.
Same problems. The chamber was reamed out and the gun worked until the bolt cracked in half at the cam pin hole.
She finished the class with my (Colt) M4.
The next day her husbands bolt cracked in the same place.
Earlier this year an Instructor had the same thing happen to his DPMS bolt (the gun was a special run of "Gunsite signature" carbines bought under the regime of the 2nd owner).
He replace the bolt, but the gun never ran. He then replaced the carbine.
Does this mean that DPMS is bad? No.
But their is definitely a parts issue here.
The M4A1 bolts will start showing fatigue and eventually crack at the locking lugs at 10-20k rounds. However, i have never seen a bolt crack at the cam pin hole before, and certainly two in two days is more then a coincidence.

As Giles Stock says, "My carbine says Colt on the side".

As an aside, another Instructor uses a DPMS gun for 3 gun matches and is very happy with it.

You pays your money and you takes your chances...."


LINK

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:26:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 8:27:15 AM EST by Alpha15]

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

This all happened in the early 90's and still is being dredged up from time to time.

It sounds like some of those bolts are either still floating around, or DPMS still has some issues.

From Pat Rogers, posted 6/16/2003:

"We had a husband / wife team out to take a 223 class, with some type of fluted bbl/ exotic DPMS carbines. His ran- hers didn't. Major extracting problems, due to "match" chamber.
She completed the class with my (Colt) M4.
Next year she came back but replaced the "match" fluted bbl with a DPMS M4 profile bbl.
Same problems. The chamber was reamed out and the gun worked until the bolt cracked in half at the cam pin hole.
She finished the class with my (Colt) M4.
The next day her husbands bolt cracked in the same place.
Earlier this year an Instructor had the same thing happen to his DPMS bolt (the gun was a special run of "Gunsite signature" carbines bought under the regime of the 2nd owner).
He replace the bolt, but the gun never ran. He then replaced the carbine.
Does this mean that DPMS is bad? No.
But their is definitely a parts issue here.
The M4A1 bolts will start showing fatigue and eventually crack at the locking lugs at 10-20k rounds. However, i have never seen a bolt crack at the cam pin hole before, and certainly two in two days is more then a coincidence.

As Giles Stock says, "My carbine says Colt on the side".

As an aside, another Instructor uses a DPMS gun for 3 gun matches and is very happy with it.

You pays your money and you takes your chances...."


LINK





Yes we hear from Pat hisDPMS along with others have checked out his claims and found them to be unsubstantiated.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:48:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Alpha15:

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

This all happened in the early 90's and still is being dredged up from time to time.

It sounds like some of those bolts are either still floating around, or DPMS still has some issues.

From Pat Rogers, posted 6/16/2003:

"We had a husband / wife team out to take a 223 class, with some type of fluted bbl/ exotic DPMS carbines. His ran- hers didn't. Major extracting problems, due to "match" chamber.
She completed the class with my (Colt) M4.
Next year she came back but replaced the "match" fluted bbl with a DPMS M4 profile bbl.
Same problems. The chamber was reamed out and the gun worked until the bolt cracked in half at the cam pin hole.
She finished the class with my (Colt) M4.
The next day her husbands bolt cracked in the same place.
Earlier this year an Instructor had the same thing happen to his DPMS bolt (the gun was a special run of "Gunsite signature" carbines bought under the regime of the 2nd owner).
He replace the bolt, but the gun never ran. He then replaced the carbine.
Does this mean that DPMS is bad? No.
But their is definitely a parts issue here.
The M4A1 bolts will start showing fatigue and eventually crack at the locking lugs at 10-20k rounds. However, i have never seen a bolt crack at the cam pin hole before, and certainly two in two days is more then a coincidence.

As Giles Stock says, "My carbine says Colt on the side".

As an aside, another Instructor uses a DPMS gun for 3 gun matches and is very happy with it.

You pays your money and you takes your chances...."


LINK





Yes we hear from Pat on this issue about every 6 months and it always seems to be everyone elses guns have a major problem and he has to use his Colt to show what a real gun is .
DPMS along with others have checked out his claims and found them to be unsubstantiated.


I see. So, are my broken DPMS bolts a figment of my imagination-or am I a troll too?

Got a link to your info? I'd love to learn more.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:10:22 AM EST
Heres the link 1-800-578-DPMS
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:14:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 9:14:23 AM EST by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By Alpha15:
Heres the link 1-800-578-DPMS


That wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but I'll take it

Although I think I still have their number on speed dial anyway from when my DPMS armorers wrench broke
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