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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/17/2005 9:54:18 AM EDT
Would like some basic info about available DCM approved AR-15s. I've been looking at Bushmaster and others... can spend about $1,500 + extras... This would be a first rifle--- competition or otherwise (other than FT Air Rifles)... so need all the help I can get. Also looking for instruction/practice fire before purchase. Live in MA, so if anyone out there can help... tht would be great!

Looking forward to your replies....

Jon Frost
Western MA
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:03:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 10:05:02 AM EDT by yfs200]
Buy a Rock River NM. They run about $950 and are better rifles than the Bushmaster DCM. The RRA has a much better trigger.

For some instruction, just show up at a local high power match. Highpower shooters are a great group of people and they all will be more than willing to help and let you borrow gear.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:11:31 AM EDT
I second the RRA NM recommendation. Mine shoots like a dream right out of the box.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:15:02 AM EDT
I only shoot rimfire competion locally but I believe the place you want to check out is
northeastshooters.com good luck nhsport
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:30:47 AM EDT
After you get your rifle it would be a good idea to get a DCM sling with it.

The first accessory you'll probably need would be a spotting scope and a DCM type tripod.

The only other equipment you might want when you get serious are a shooting jacket and a shooting mat.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:10:14 PM EDT
Thanks for the suggestions... I looked at RRA and that looks Ok as well... Want to shoot CMP next year if possible, so want to get set up for that over the next year... What about Rear/Fore Sights 1/2? Most of what I've ready from Camp Perry folks is to get a barrel with 1:9 twist... RRA is 1:8...

Figured on Scope, Stand, Mat, Mags, hearing protection, eye protection, jewels protection (LOL); probably a shooting glove and coat down the road a bit...

What are folks using for cleaning, maintenance, cases, etc?

Thanks again for the help... much appreciated.

Jon
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:34:04 PM EDT
Get the RRA NM. Just got mine a few weeks ago, and it is one sweet shooter. You'll want at least a 1/8" twist to shoot the heavier loads (75, 77grn, etc.) for longer ranges. The 1/9" may not be very accurate with anything above 69gr. (some people have had success with 75gr., but it's kind of luck of the draw).
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:10:04 PM EDT
Thanks for the suggestions... I looked at RRA and that looks Ok as well... Want to shoot CMP next year if possible, so want to get set up for that over the next year... What about Rear/Fore Sights 1/2? Most of what I've ready from Camp Perry folks is to get a barrel with 1:9 twist... RRA is 1:8...

Figured on Scope, Stand, Mat, Mags, hearing protection, eye protection, jewels protection (LOL); probably a shooting glove and coat down the road a bit...

What are folks using for cleaning, maintenance, cases, etc?

Thanks again for the help... much appreciated.

Jon
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:35:40 PM EDT
A RRA NM Rifle would be a good choice. In my opinion a better choice would be to get a stock lower, add a RRA trigger tuned by John Holliger and by a complete upper built by White Oak Armament. With this set up you get a better float tube, better barrel (1-7 vs 1-8), more sight options and its built by on of the best service rifle smiths/shooter in the country.

www.whiteoakarmament.com

www.whiteoakprecision.com
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:10:48 PM EDT
When you say you "want to shoot CMP", I think you actually mean NRA Highpower.

As far as cleaning supplies, I'm sure some will chime in about using a GI kit. Disregard that advice.

Get a high quality, one-piece rod (nylon coated steel or bare carbon fiber), pointed and wraparound jags, square flannel patches, powder solvent (I prefer Break Free Carbon Cutter), bore abrasive cleaner (I prefer Iosso, but JB is good too), Break Free CLP for lubing and preservation, and a BORE GUIDE.

Go to Sinclair International and Midway USA to do your shopping. Most likely you will not find the stuff you need at your local gun store or Wal Mart.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:31:55 PM EDT
RRA is a great rifle but since you seem to have more $ to spend I think you might be better served going w/ a CLE w/ Kreiger bbl. The RRA is good but the CLE is better. Plus you said on top of $1500 for the rifle you have more money for accessories so you can get a good jacket, sling, etc.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:35:38 PM EDT
PM sgthoskins and see if you two can get together. He's a hardcore HP shooter from Mass and a regular here.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:35:39 PM EDT
Thanks folks... lots of info to take in... I'll probably go with the RRA setup... Been looking at other goodies.... Too much for me to spend right now.... maybe just the RRA A2 Match, cleaning kit and some mags/ammo... for the time being $1,500 max....

Does RRA make a 22 cal conversion for plinking? I think Bushmaster does...?

Will try to hook up with some others in my area... to check things out first... RRA has a 30-60 day build turnaround... Can you say Santa Claus...

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:21:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 7:21:38 PM EDT by topgunpilot20]

Originally Posted By Mailmanx:
Thanks folks... lots of info to take in... I'll probably go with the RRA setup... Been looking at other goodies.... Too much for me to spend right now.... maybe just the RRA A2 Match, cleaning kit and some mags/ammo... for the time being $1,500 max....

Does RRA make a 22 cal conversion for plinking? I think Bushmaster does...?

Will try to hook up with some others in my area... to check things out first... RRA has a 30-60 day build turnaround ... Can you say Santa Claus...


ADCO has RRA NM uppers and lowers in stock. just order both and snap them together. cheaper than RRA's site too.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:22:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 9:24:57 PM EDT by Talyn]
Most of what I've ready from Camp Perry folks is to get a barrel with 1:9 twist...

I don't think so. You won't stabilize the heavier bullets for a full course shoot. You can get by with a slower twist with lighter bullets if you're only going to shoot reduced courses.

Go with a RRA.

Get a DPMS NM .22lr upper for practicing the course of fire at shorter ranges & alot cheaper.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:51:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 10:02:24 PM EDT by Rollyman]
Mailmanx
First off welcome.

Second thing you need to do a bit of reading. Link to the Ammo Oracle
This is a long read but a must for you if you are looking to get into competitive shooting.
scroll down and find the part on Ammo and twist rates to best answer your questions.
The 223/5.56 round is a bit different. but knowledge will help you out the most and the Ammo Oracle is just the ticket.

As far as cleaning goes there are many schools of thought here. The AR is an extremely dirty weapon in comparison to others. The way to clean an AR is debated here almost daily. I recommend you read and start with the manual that comes along with the rifle you buy. Keep reading here on ARFCOM and come to your own conclusions. Gun dealers are poor choices for any information when it comes to the AR rifle. The AR'S being military type weapons are not the most popular sellers so they dont care to learn what they should to pass onto the customer.

There are right and wrong ways to break in barrels as well so do your research there as well.

Edit to add links
Bushmasters breakin info on several types of BBLSHere
Bushmasters cleaning way here
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 4:46:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 4:48:28 AM EDT by senorFrog]

Originally Posted By Mailmanx:
Thanks folks... lots of info to take in... I'll probably go with the RRA setup... Been looking at other goodies.... Too much for me to spend right now.... maybe just the RRA A2 Match, cleaning kit and some mags/ammo... for the time being $1,500 max....

Does RRA make a 22 cal conversion for plinking? I think Bushmaster does...?

Will try to hook up with some others in my area... to check things out first... RRA has a 30-60 day build turnaround... Can you say Santa Claus...




Hi I'm in MASS as well and newbie. Bought my first AR about a month ago.

I looked into getting a RRA and found out two things: they are about 60 days out on all orders and was told you can't get them in MASS b/c they are not approved. I'm not sure how true the later is. I called a few places and that is what I was told.

Why not just get a Bushmaster? This is what I got:



http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2s20.asp

Four Seasons has them for $799.00. They also have 30 round magazines for $20.00. A case of ammo is about $110.00.

http://www.fsguns.com/fsg_new_lg.html

It's nothing special, but I wanted something stock and simple for my first AR. I plan on getting the SEBR from ARF.COM as well.

Good luck! I love my AR. Somehow makes me feel complete.

PS - If you want to try mine out sometime, no problem. I'm a member at Hanson and Braintree club.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 9:20:31 AM EDT
Yep:
I looked up the 'approved' rifles and RRA is not on the list in MA... Bummer... What are you doing for reloading of anything. I am having trouble getting accurate info about brass,bullet, etc. purchase... Not allowed by mailorder to MA???? WTF.

Would like to try one out before I make the plunge $$$$$$$$$$$... ouch! PM me for info about getting out your way. I am a member at the WSC in Westfield, MA...

Thanks.

Jon
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 12:14:21 PM EDT
PM sent.

Re ammo I'm just buying at Four Seasons, a case ~ $110.00.

From what I understand no mail order. Sucks to be us.



Link Posted: 8/18/2005 4:19:41 PM EDT
Southampton C of PD told me that I can buy mail order... the problem is finding a retailer that will sell to MA residents due to the AG's personal ruling aka Sting Ops against out of state retailers...

Jon
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 4:31:53 PM EDT
How much cheaper is mail order than this (about $110)?

Federal XM-193 .223 FMJ

$4.59 / box of 20 rds.

$4.19 / box when you buy a case of 500 rds. (25 boxes)
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 5:08:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By senorFrog:
I looked into getting a RRA and found out two things: they are about 60 days out on all orders and was told you can't get them in MASS b/c they are not approved. I'm not sure how true the later is. I called a few places and that is what I was told.

PS - If you want to try mine out sometime, no problem. I'm a member at Hanson and Braintree club.




Thanks to these two asshats.

(which is a better picture of this clown)

and


First thing you ought to shoot, is a VOTE for their Rep. opponent

I feel for citizens in commie states.

This is a Constitutional right not a crime

[rant off]


Oh, and the RRA is the standard today in off the shelf Match shooters

Link Posted: 8/18/2005 5:26:06 PM EDT
I have an RRA, but I compete against a friend who has the Bushmaster.

His bushy has adjustment screws for the two-stage trigger that have gone south. His trigger went to crap over the course of a match and then turned into a single stage. The RRA is non-adjustable. It pretty much works or doesn't.

I can't say for sure, but my RRA has the same pull at least 1000 rounds later as it did when I was a sharpshooter.

If RRA ain't approved in Masshole, buy a general purpose AR, an RRA two-stage and a complete RRA NM upper. Two for the price of ... well ... almost two.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 5:44:18 PM EDT
You could also try the Armalite, but the RRA is going to be a very similar rifle for a cheaper price.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 6:15:17 PM EDT

The ArmaLite rifles use set screws on the front sight post, rather than taper pins. I wouldn't leave the guys I compete against alone with that rifle.

If your shooters are normal, you'll probably be ok.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:49:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By moxnix228:
A RRA NM Rifle would be a good choice. In my opinion a better choice would be to get a stock lower, add a RRA trigger tuned by John Holliger and by a complete upper built by White Oak Armament. With this set up you get a better float tube, better barrel (1-7 vs 1-8), more sight options and its built by on of the best service rifle smiths/shooter in the country.

www.whiteoakarmament.com

www.whiteoakprecision.com



I will second this advice. I built my NRA HP rifle last year using the standard Wilson BBL WOA upper and WOP tuned trigger. The upper is beautiful! With a scope on the handle and 69 gr SMK's, I can shoot 5/8" groups at 100 yds. all day long. The pinned rear sights are also a nice option. I used a stag lower with RR lower parts kit. Just make sure you get a GOOD sling. I bought a Turner, and I am happy with it. I played with a friend's Bushy this year, and I was disappointed with it, especially the sling he got from Bushmaster. There was also no way that his trigger was legal.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:10:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tobycreek:
The ArmaLite rifles use set screws on the front sight post, rather than taper pins. I wouldn't leave the guys I compete against alone with that rifle.

If your shooters are normal, you'll probably be ok.



Most high zoot barrels use the setscrew FSB attachment. The reason? To preserve full windage travel. You zero with the front sight and then lock it in place with threadlock (actually sleeve retainer #640).

And if your competetion does anything like that, they would be disqualified under the RULES.
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