Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/18/2005 3:11:42 PM EDT

I recently read that some feel as thought Colt AR's have a higher durability factor than a Bushmaster when it comes to extended rapid fire. Is this true, and if so can someone provide a credible example?
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 3:29:23 PM EDT
It isnt true
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 3:38:15 PM EDT
Listen, I've seen both undergo rapid fire... Not extended fire, but still....

I used a Colt 6601 type rifle with NM sights and a two stage trigger at Camp Perry. Another one of our shooters used a Bushmaster DCM bought from the CMP when they had them.

We shot alongside each other for the rattle-battle. That is where you have 64 rounds total, and you have 4 stages of fire - the 600 yard rapid, the 500 yard rapid ( both prone ) the 300 yard rapid ( sitting, and the 200 yard rapid ( standing ). You are expected to expend all your rounds at the 600 and 500 yard line on the silouhette target downrange.

Basically, it amounted to one shot every second in the hot, unrelenting sun. This all with ammo that was souped up for competition. These conditions are very stressful on the rifle, especially considering I have no float tube on my rifle ( being rebarreled and refurbished as we speak ).

Both performed well, neither had any malfunctions I only hit the target more times because I am more used to this kind of rapid fire/human sized targets than the Bushmaster shooter is, and I had a better positon.

Both companies use the same 4150 Steel in their barrels, both have stainless steel and chrome lined barrels in their product line. Basically, this durability claim is false. Both will perform equally well for extended rapid fire.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:36:03 PM EDT
I read in this forum that Bushmaster can't stake a gas key. I don't even fully understand what that means. To those that do, is that really a weak point?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 8:16:48 PM EDT
On the two Bushies I have owned the carrier keys were staked fine. If they are not properly staked the carrier key screws will loosen.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 2:53:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By YELLOWV:
On the two Bushies I have owned the carrier keys were staked fine. If they are not properly staked the carrier key screws will loosen.



Most Bushies I have seen, including my own were just fine and I never had an issue with them. I HAVE seen Bushies that were improperly staked (i.e. staked WAY too lightly ) and I have seen them come loose...but only twice. Between my Colts and the couple of Bushies I have owned over the years the Colts are always the more "heavily" staked of the two.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:29:22 AM EDT
if done properly or re-done properly i have never notice any problems with rapid fire.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:18:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Originally Posted By YELLOWV:
On the two Bushies I have owned the carrier keys were staked fine. If they are not properly staked the carrier key screws will loosen.



Most Bushies I have seen, including my own were just fine and I never had an issue with them. I HAVE seen Bushies that were improperly staked (i.e. staked WAY too lightly ) and I have seen them come loose...but only twice. Between my Colts and the couple of Bushies I have owned over the years the Colts are always the more "heavily" staked of the two.



Wow, I imagine that would be a pretty catostrophic failure.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:36:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 5:37:16 AM EDT by markm]

Originally Posted By safetyhit:
I recently read that some feel as thought Colt AR's have a higher durability factor than a Bushmaster when it comes to extended rapid fire. Is this true, and if so can someone provide a credible example?



It's completely true!
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 6:48:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rifleman2000:

Wow, I imagine that would be a pretty catostrophic failure.



It wasn't actually too bad, I didn't even know what was wrong at first. I had a screw get loose and shear off. It was my first AR, and first time at the range with it. I went thru something like 80 or 100 rounds in 1 and 2 shot strings because it wouldn't cycle right more than once or twice in a row.

When I took the thing apart the top half of the forward carrier key screw fell out of the upper. I still remember thinking, "I know I'm new to this, but that can't be good."

Bushmaster sent me a whole new BCG, and I havent had a problem with anything made by them since.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 9:14:45 AM EDT
Colt barrels are manufactured from 4150 steel because 4150 holds up better at high temperatures. I know LMT uses 4150 and is MP tested like the Colt. I don't know what steel BM uses.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:05:45 AM EDT
BM uses 4150 steel. There was a point where they had a f'ed up staking machine and NONE of the carriers were porpperly staked for BM. They have a new machine and are ALL fine now.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:06:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 12:33:01 PM EDT
I believe that Colt is of higher quality than Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 1:06:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I believe that Colt is of higher quality than Bushmaster.



I KNOW you are right.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 1:10:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 1:11:40 PM EDT by eklikwhoa]
i got my first colt, a 6450 and after looking it over i would have to say the bushmaster has higher quality

the finish on the colt was not something i expected for it being a colt. pits, ueven machineing, anodizing rubbed to show silver, stock all wobbly, handguard fitment was not the best and other little things.


this rifle was purchased nib and was not used. never really complained about it cause i shoot the crap out of all my rifles and they tend to get kinda beat up along the way but i sure would have liked to put those marks on the rifle myself.


first colt after a bunch of bushmaster and thought i was gonna be won over but there is no change in my opinions all have their pro/cons or high points/low points.


i do like the colt cause its a 9mm carbine and freakin fun a$$ hell to shoot!
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:52:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By safetyhit:
I recently read that some feel as thought Colt AR's have a higher durability factor than a Bushmaster when it comes to extended rapid fire. Is this true, and if so can someone provide a credible example?



It's completely true!



I was truly waiting for, "RAPID FIRE WITH BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED!!"
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:07:19 PM EDT
I've never had any, nor heard of any, issues with Bushies on full auto fire. I have three and regularly shoot them on full and they just seem to love it. I dont have a Colt, cant afford em, But I could afford the three bushmasters and had money left over for lots of ammo and accessories.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:23:38 PM EDT
Bushy uses the same steel 4150.The onlt thing with Bushy is that barrels are MP tested just a few for the whole lot where colt does every barrel and bolt.I rapid fir my Bushies all the time and they run great.One rifle is 12 years old and all stock..no issues withj that weapon the time I have had it.The one thing I think Colt has over Bushy is the MP test the vital components,and unlike Bushy the barrel is completely parkerized under the FSB.Bushy assembles then parkerizes.And Colt uses the mil-spec diameter stock assembly and stakes that as well.If Colt would just offer a proper AR with small FCG holes like other manufacturers and suported the right to bear arms the way they should I would have some Colt rifles to.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:45:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 5:54:07 PM EDT by King_of_All_Tyrants]
Go to the source.

www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=56;t=000497;p=1

I believe Pat Rogers' quote is "Colt continues to be the most efficient of the AR's. Of the remainder, Bushmaster may be a distant second. When you get one that works, it runs great, but many don't", based on his direct experience in his classes from LE/military students bringing their own carbines.

The question is:
1. how much experience and know how does the manufacturer have in producing rifles? Do they have a set of factory specifications developed through feedback from actual users over many years? Do they have a copy of someone else's specifications? Do they just buy parts from any old supplier and cobble them together?

2. To what degree does the manufacturer adhere to its own specifications in parts and assembly?

I'd imagine Bushmaster does a 20" gun as good as Colt (and besides, you can't get Colt 20" ARs anymore).

However, if you want an M4 clone, you can either go with a carbine made without knowledge of the technical data package (Bushmaster LE Carbine), or you can go with a rifle made on the same production line with almost all the same components as the rifle that goes to the troops (Colt 6920) - for only $200 more. I say Colt in this case; though plenty of people are happy with their Bushmasters.

Whichever rifle you get, I would highly recommend playing with the individual rifle in question beforehand. How do its sights feel? How does its trigger feel? Are there anything weird about its components?

Also remember that the only way to really know how accurate or reliable a particular rifle is.... you guessed it .... to shoot 1000 rounds through it yourself.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:32:09 AM EDT
I have both Colt and Bushmaster barrels. 11.5 and 14.5 inch barrels by both manufactures. Thats 4 barrels.
I assemble all my rifles.

All 4 have seen many thousands of rounds full auto and rapid semi fire. All 4 work perfect.
I used a Colt 11.5 inch barrel mated to a CMT upper with the rest of the carbine Colt
at Pat Rogers class and there were zero malfunctions. Round count was @1300.
The carbine was hot ( outside temp 100 deg ) dirty ( shooting prone ).
Also ..... My LMT barrels have performed the same way.

I will only buy Colt, Bushmaster or LMT when it comes to barrels. All use 4150 and chrome line with the proper 5.56 chamber.
Some others only "flash chrome " and that will flake off.
I think price is the only difference I can find in quality of the above 3 barrels.
Top Top