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Posted: 10/3/2007 1:54:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2007 1:54:54 PM EST by slt223]
Is this thing a correct XM177E2, and not just an M16 5milion with an XM upper?



This would be item #95 on subguns.com NFA ads. I'm not the seller, just never seen any of these that were not Mod. 639 roll marked. I know those were export guns, but that's all I've seen.
Link Posted: 10/3/2007 5:42:54 PM EST
Looks like an export model 639 to me. The plain rollstamps are usually an indicator of this. A real XM177E2 lower would've been property marked on the magwell.
Link Posted: 10/4/2007 5:31:53 PM EST
A important thing to remember is most NFA people don't have a clue about any firearm.
Link Posted: 10/4/2007 5:59:13 PM EST
+1 Scott, most of them do not care if the weapon is in the correct configuration as long as they get their money.

RMiller
Link Posted: 10/4/2007 6:47:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2007 6:50:12 PM EST by M700-308]
This shows the correct XM177e2 markings
Link Posted: 10/4/2007 6:56:03 PM EST
Nice! Wish I could find one of them.

RMiller
Link Posted: 10/4/2007 8:20:44 PM EST
I get the distinct feeling that is half of one of them, the forward half of its cut receiver specifically...
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:30:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
Looks like an export model 639 to me. The plain rollstamps are usually an indicator of this. A real XM177E2 lower would've been property marked on the magwell.


The ones I"ve seen said Mod. 639 on them right above the serial number.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:31:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:
A important thing to remember is most NFA people don't have a clue about any firearm.


Que?
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 5:55:38 PM EST
Did anyone else look at the ad? What's wrong with this picture?
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:18:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 6:20:05 PM EST by RMiller]
Yep, that moderator is a bit young for that weapon, I have one just like it but diff SN.
They were made for a Navy contract but still original Colt moderators, just not vintage.

And the grenade ring is on backwards as usual!

RMiller
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:21:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By RMiller:
Yep, that moderator is a bit young for that weapon, I have one just like it but diff SN.
They were made for a Navy contract but still original Colt moderators, just not vintage.

And the grenade ring is on backwards as usual!

RMiller


Wow, the knowledge in this forum amazes me. I was only referring to the grenade ring. I had no idea about the date of the moderator.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 3:49:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2007 4:12:54 AM EST by ranchhand]
The moderator is dated by the company name. Colt's Firearms Division is older than Colt's Mfg.

Each time they restructured they changed the name slightly.

Colt's PT Firearms and Colt Defense are 2 others
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:10:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By slt223:

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
Looks like an export model 639 to me. The plain rollstamps are usually an indicator of this. A real XM177E2 lower would've been property marked on the magwell.


The ones I"ve seen said Mod. 639 on them right above the serial number.

True, which suggests that the upper was not original to the lower.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:24:42 AM EST



Link to Ad....


link
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 2:24:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:
A important thing to remember is most NFA people don't have a clue about any firearm.


+1

.....and now there is proof....
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 2:57:02 PM EST
Per above, not a Colt Model 629 / XM177E2


Per below, not a Colt Model 639





Not sure what it is?

A M16 Rifle that someone threw a 11.5" Upper on?

Good Luck,
"Capt Richardson"
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 3:31:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By coctailer:

Originally Posted By scottryan:
A important thing to remember is most NFA people don't have a clue about any firearm.


+1

.....and now there is proof....


Using this ad to make that judgement is not exactly insightful. This guy is simply trying to hook a fish. It's the same thing as trying to sell an SS chevelle clone as a real SS chevelle...only a fake XM177E2 is far more blatant. I strongly doubt he is unaware that it's not a legit XM177E2.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:12:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2007 10:13:49 PM EST by scottryan]

Originally Posted By slt223:


Using this ad to make that judgement is not exactly insightful.


Um, no. I using years of experience to make that judgement.



This guy is simply trying to hook a fish.


Another reason for my point.



I strongly doubt he is unaware that it's not a legit XM177E2.


I hightly doubt he knows the difference.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 6:25:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 6:52:44 AM EST by slt223]

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By slt223:


Using this ad to make that judgement is not exactly insightful.


Um, no. I using years of experience to make that judgement.



This guy is simply trying to hook a fish.


Another reason for my point.


I strongly doubt he is unaware that it's not a legit XM177E2.



Do you own machineguns, and/or personally know people who do? I'm just wondering because my experience has been very different. I have never had any problem finding NFA folks that know the history of the guns they own or want, how to make them run properly, who made them, what the manufacturing differences were between manufacturers, etc. Furthermore, the guy trying to hook a fish does not speak for the NFA community. It speak for the entire firearms industry. Go look at gunbroker.com. I see the same crap all day long with classic cars. It's alway been buyer-beware, and it always will be, no matter what the item is that's being collected. Please turn your omniscience to my other thread www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=345175 and help answer those questions. It's also posted over at subguns. So far nobody knows.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 3:54:05 PM EST
Well slt223, you have done an outstanding job making scottryan's point.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:51:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 6:54:12 PM EST by slt223]

Originally Posted By Ekie:
Well slt223, you have done an outstanding job making scottryan's point.


Well, I don't see eye to eye with you considering no one here has managed to answer my RO633 questions in the other thread.

Thanks to those of you who corroborated my doubts without slinging shit.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:14:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 7:15:19 PM EST by scottryan]

Originally Posted By slt223:

Originally Posted By Ekie:
Well slt223, you have done an outstanding job making scottryan's point.


Well, I don't see eye to eye with you considering no one here has managed to answer my RO633 questions in the other thread.

Thanks to those of you who corroborated my doubts without slinging shit.



Your probably won't be able to find anyone to answer that question, even someone from Colt.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 12:16:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By slt223:

Originally Posted By coctailer:

Originally Posted By scottryan:
A important thing to remember is most NFA people don't have a clue about any firearm.


+1

.....and now there is proof....


Using this ad to make that judgement is not exactly insightful. This guy is simply trying to hook a fish. It's the same thing as trying to sell an SS chevelle clone as a real SS chevelle...only a fake XM177E2 is far more blatant. I strongly doubt he is unaware that it's not a legit XM177E2.



He is probably just repeating what the seller he bought if from said.

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 2:19:56 PM EST
I hate to make accusations when I don't know all of the facts but the seller is advertising a factory XM177E2 which this is not. It might have all factory Colt parts, but as already pointed out, it has some serious issues with the date of manufacture on the receiver and the moderator. There is nothing rare about this gun except for the lore the seller has implied. It is a parts gun.

There are a lot of transferable M16's in the 5 million serial number range but most of them were built as 613's and more commonly as 614's which would have been slickside Air Force type guns. I've seen plenty of them at Class 3 dealers and at Knob Creek over the years.

Most of the transferable XM177E2's on the market are commercial model 639's and are so marked. Many had the moderator removed and discarded. I've seen them with and without. A close friend bought one years ago and it had a birdcage with the grenade ring but no moderator. Still, it is marked Model 639 and is the real deal.

I would just hate to see someone pay a premium for this particular gun knowing that it has been assembled by someone other than a Colt factory employee that would be retired today.
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