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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/25/2005 2:26:41 PM EDT
From Assaultweb.com:


http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=71810

ISTANBUL - Turkish weapon manufacture firm ``Sarsilmaz`` will cooperate with U.S. giant firm ``Colt Defense`` in rifle production.

Under an agreement to be signed soon, Colt Defense`s products will be manufactured outside North America for the first time, and be exported to other countries via Turkey.

Latif Aral Alis, the Chairman of Executive Board of Sarsilmaz firm, and James R. Battaglini, an executive of the Colt Defense LLC, will hold a press conference regarding this cooperation on Monday (September 26th).
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:35:37 PM EDT
I can understand it, kind of the same way we (americans) want companies like HK to have manufacturing facilities here in the US.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:36:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CommoMan:
From Assaultweb.com:


http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=71810

ISTANBUL - Turkish weapon manufacture firm ``Sarsilmaz`` will cooperate with U.S. giant firm ``Colt Defense`` in rifle production.

Under an agreement to be signed soon, Colt Defense`s products will be manufactured outside North America for the first time, and be exported to other countries via Turkey.

Latif Aral Alis, the Chairman of Executive Board of Sarsilmaz firm, and James R. Battaglini, an executive of the Colt Defense LLC, will hold a press conference regarding this cooperation on Monday (September 26th).



Huh. I had a Sarsilmaz 12 gauge pump for a while. It was a really nice gun for $80, but I couldn't stand the giant "KOBRA" in gold lettering with a gold picture of a cobra on the side of the receiver. Kinda wished I'd kept it, pretty well put together piece.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:40:46 PM EDT
That'll be the next big fad on this board...

GOTTA GET ME A COLT MADE IN TURKEY!
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:46:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dullh:
That'll be the next big fad on this board...

GOTTA GET ME A COLT MADE IN TURKEY!



Dude I was already thinking that.

"NIB rare 20" A4 Turk Colt upper $625"


Here's the Sarsilmaz website. I found a picture of my shotgun! They've changed the lettering on the side a little but it's on there. Hadn't thought about that thing in years. Wish I hadn't sold it...
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:48:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CommoMan:
From Assaultweb.net:


http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=71810

ISTANBUL - Turkish weapon manufacture firm ``Sarsilmaz`` will cooperate with U.S. giant firm ``Colt Defense`` in rifle production.

Under an agreement to be signed soon, Colt Defense`s products will be manufactured outside North America for the first time, and be exported to other countries via Turkey.

Latif Aral Alis, the Chairman of Executive Board of Sarsilmaz firm, and James R. Battaglini, an executive of the Colt Defense LLC, will hold a press conference regarding this cooperation on Monday (September 26th).



Sounds like another terrible decision. What say ye' Colt Cult?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:22:04 PM EDT
Outsourcing at it's finest.

Well, that's just great. Given that Turkey is full of muslims, any bet that sanitized M16s and M4s show up in the hands of islamo-fascists? It's gonna make it hard to ID the bad guys if they are carrying OUR weapons.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:41:53 PM EDT
thats just plain fuc*ed up right there! Thats worse than two little boys fuc*ing in the Vatican.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:05:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALbert:
Outsourcing at it's finest.

Well, that's just great. Given that Turkey is full of muslims, any bet that sanitized M16s and M4s show up in the hands of islamo-fascists? It's gonna make it hard to ID the bad guys if they are carrying OUR weapons.



Not exactly. Yes Turkey has a Muslim majority, but they are also a highly industrialized member of NATO and a European nation. Their youth are just as complacent with Pepsi, McDonalds and Grande Latte as ours here in the USA. They are big fans or freedom and prosperity and aren’t exactly friendly to Islamic fundamentalists. Terrorists would rather get caught by us than Turks for sure

And Muslims already are using the M16. Hezbollah has been using them for quite some time

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:53:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hired_Gun:

Originally Posted By FALbert:
Outsourcing at it's finest.

Well, that's just great. Given that Turkey is full of muslims, any bet that sanitized M16s and M4s show up in the hands of islamo-fascists? It's gonna make it hard to ID the bad guys if they are carrying OUR weapons.



Not exactly. Yes Turkey has a Muslim majority, but they are also a highly industrialized member of NATO and a European nation. Their youth are just as complacent with Pepsi, McDonalds and Grande Latte as ours here in the USA. They are big fans or freedom and prosperity and aren’t exactly friendly to Islamic fundamentalists. Terrorists would rather get caught by us than Turks for sure

And Muslims already are using the M16. Hezbollah has been using them for quite some time




+1, to all of the above.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:04:10 PM EDT
Well, Turkey actually makes decent firearms. They are no slouch in giving the customer a good product. Colt, like many other companies, is just lowering their opportunity costs. The people who couldn't afford Colts before, may now be able to purchase one. However, I do believe that the American made versions are going to skyrocket in price. Some of you Colt owners are very lucky.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:07:57 PM EDT
Let's see, Canada and Turkey. I wonder where else they will be made?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:14:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By armabill:
Let's see, Canada and Turkey. I wonder where else they will be made?


This is nothing new, they've already been made under license in lots of other countries.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:23:42 PM EDT
Though not under Colt Defense LLC so the headline is technically correct. The main one eill be the Turkish G3 replacement contract. They have a HUGE army and that will suck up much of the early production.

What they will do is become a source for cheap parts and expect Colt to start chopping off people like ER Shaw. Premium barrels out of Diemaco and cheapo stuff outta Turkey.

Simon
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:40:50 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 11:07:15 PM EDT

Let's see, Canada and Turkey. I wonder where else they will be made?



China?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:20:18 AM EDT
They can get away with some minor components, but they will not be able to import lowers, barrels or complete weapons for civilian sale. The ban on import assault rifles, barrels and receivers also applies here.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:35:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 12:38:00 AM EDT by Combat_Diver]
M16s are also made under license in Korea, Philippines and Singapore.

Turkey does make some other fine weapons in shotguns. The are also licensed by HK for the MP5 (not positive), G3 and from Rhinemittel for the MG3. The MG3 that I have next to me was made there by MKE.

CD
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:39:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:12:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 2:49:26 AM EDT by Darkest2000]
this isn't the first time Colt/US government has done this.

We did this with Taiwan and S. Korea, and who knows what other countries.

After these countries learned the skills and the "secret" ingredients about gun making, they start doing it themselves. Taiwan came up with their Type 65 and S.Korea with their K2s.

Both incidents nearly pushed Colt into bankruptcy..

I guess they haven't learned.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:29:06 AM EDT
Colt doesn't perennially go in bankruptcy for nuttin.....

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:28:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 5:30:03 AM EDT by Ekie]
As in past agreements with Canada, Korea, Philippines, Singapore, and the US Government, Turkey will pay cash for the license plus royalties and the license agreement will stipulate that Turkey will not be able to sell in markets in competition against Colt's. Like past licensing agreements it is a win win, and standard for the small arms industry for well over one hundred years. Mauser, H&K, FN, etc used to make a living selling licensing agreements for infantry rifles (H&K's last license agreement was with Spain?).

We should see about as many Turkish M4 parts as we have seen parts from Canada, Korea, Philippines, and Singapore.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:17:15 AM EDT
make sure you hold your breath while waiting for Colt's made in Turkey to show up. Maybe they'll send a free AK with each AR...

Assault Rifle Import ban? Maybe you'll have to settle for a Colt "parts kit"

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:27:10 AM EDT
Any idea where Hezbollah got theirs? Somehow I don't see the IDF losing enough of them in action to be a decent source of supply. From the ex-ARVN stock that keeps surfacing all over the world in the darnedest places?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:39:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FALbert:
Outsourcing at it's finest.

Well, that's just great. Given that Turkey is full of muslims, any bet that sanitized M16s and M4s show up in the hands of islamo-fascists? It's gonna make it hard to ID the bad guys if they are carrying OUR weapons.



Not really...

If someone shoots at me... I automatically figure they are a bad guy... no matter what they are shooting!!!!
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:53:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:
As in past agreements with Canada, Korea, Philippines, Singapore, and the US Government, Turkey will pay cash for the license plus royalties and the license agreement will stipulate that Turkey will not be able to sell in markets in competition against Colt's. Like past licensing agreements it is a win win, and standard for the small arms industry for well over one hundred years. Mauser, H&K, FN, etc used to make a living selling licensing agreements for infantry rifles (H&K's last license agreement was with Spain?).

We should see about as many Turkish M4 parts as we have seen parts from Canada, Korea, Philippines, and Singapore.



+1 - why is everyone suddently worried about getting sub-par parts from Colt? This is so they can supply foreign made weapons to foreign countries; has nothing to do with weapons in the US.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:08:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MEGR:
However, I do believe that the American made versions are going to skyrocket in price. Some of you Colt owners are very lucky.



Why would the American made one skyrocket in price? That statement makes no sense at all.

Why would Colt making parts in Turkey increase the supply or demand of an American made one here is the US?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 2:11:46 PM EDT
From a busines standpoint its a great move by Colt and probably for the US Government. Colt supplies Israel with arms, Colt also feeds the US with weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan. Much smarter to have the weapons/parts built and and assembled over there then it is to have them built here and shipped over there especially with the fuel and labor costs now.

Just looking at it froma business perspective.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:39:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SmegHead:

Let's see, Canada and Turkey. I wonder where else they will be made?



China?



Already done. NORINCO makes an M16 clone.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:07:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 5:09:01 PM EDT by Ekie]

Originally Posted By Dace:
From a busines standpoint its a great move by Colt and probably for the US Government. Colt supplies Israel with arms, Colt also feeds the US with weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan. Much smarter to have the weapons/parts built and and assembled over there then it is to have them built here and shipped over there especially with the fuel and labor costs now.

Just looking at it froma business perspective.



That is not how a licence agreement works. That is not how IDF and DOD weapons are procured. IDF gets their M4 Carbines from the US Government, not Colt's, and not from some Colt's licensee in another country. The DOD buys M4 Carbines from Colt's, not from some other licensee, but Colt's.

The reason you sell a licence to your small arm design has not changed in the last 100 years, that is to get money. The licensee pays you money. The reason capitalist small arms manufacturers design, manufacture, and grant licences is to make money.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:23:07 PM EDT
Hezbollah got most of theirs from the Lebanese Army which was given them by Sam.
Hammas got theirs from the Palestinian Authority.
Abu Sayyaf bought most of theirs from the Filipino Army.

Sarsilmaz is not the guvmint arsenal doing the G3 and MG3.

Simon
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