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Posted: 10/4/2004 5:58:06 PM EST
Looking for info. What makes a "match target" lower a "match target." Does it have a lighter trigger pull? I am looking for a quality lower to match (no pun intended) up with a dedicated .22 upper I have on order from Rick Kuehl. Basically looking for a lighter trigger pull. Any suggestions?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:05:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 6:11:51 PM EST by markm]
Match Target is no different than any other current production Colt AR lower. It's simply marked "Match Target" because the terminology "AR-15" was specifically banned by the AWB.

I have LE colt lowers and Match Target lowers, nothing is different except the finish texture.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:18:28 PM EST
Correction....

The Match Target Receivers have a section NOT milled out to prevent the use of a Drop in Auto Sear; even though standard select fire lower parts would not work in the receiver due to the fire control pin size being non standard.

But, functionally the Match Target is no different than an AR-15 marked receiver.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:32:00 PM EST
Actually...

The Match Target uses non-standard pins for the hammer and trigger. Also, most of them are not drilled for the pivot pin detent and are meant to be used with a 2-piece that requires a screwdriver to install or remove.

Except for having the Colt name and Colt's supposedly tight quality assurance it is no better than any other lower and depending on your opinion of the non-standard pins it might be considered worse.

As for what "makes it a match target" you might as well be asking what makes a Ford Expedition an "Expedition" or what makes a Lincoln Navigator a "Navigator." They are just names. Colt calls their civilian rifles Match Target rifles because it is PC. "This isn't one of those evil assault weapons, this is a Match Target for target shooting."

They own the trademark to the original name AR15 but California banned all rifles called AR15s so Colt changed the name to Sporter to get around the law. When the federal ban passed they changed the name to Match Target.

For what you want it really doesn't matter what lower you select. You want accuracy and all of the accuracy is in the upper. A lower from another company might be better because it is generally easier to find good target triggers for the standard hammer and trigger pins that everybody else uses.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:04:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 1:07:35 PM EST by markm]

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
Actually...

The Match Target uses non-standard pins for the hammer and trigger. Also, most of them are not drilled for the pivot pin detent and are meant to be used with a 2-piece that requires a screwdriver to install or remove.



Actually...

My Colt AR15-A3 has the "non-standard" large hammer and trigger pins just like the Match Target. And My Colt AR15-A3 did not come drilled for the pivot pin detent. It came from the factory with the screw pivot pin. I had to have SAW replace the screw pin with the detent pin and have the hole drilled.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 3:54:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
The Match Target uses non-standard pins for the hammer and trigger. Also, most of them are not drilled for the pivot pin detent and are meant to be used with a 2-piece that requires a screwdriver to install or remove.


My Colt AR15-A3 has the "non-standard" large hammer and trigger pins just like the Match Target. And My Colt AR15-A3 did not come drilled for the pivot pin detent. It came from the factory with the screw pivot pin. I had to have SAW replace the screw pin with the detent pin and have the hole drilled.


Which just goes to show that Colt is generally non-standard on their civie rifles regardless of the model name stamped on the side. Colt's military weapons and the lowers from every other manufacturer use standard pin sizes and always have the hole drilled for the pivot pin detent and spring. All of which adds up the fact that you get an arguably better lower for less money if you buy from RRA, Bushmaster, or any number of other companies.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:25:02 PM EST
I've never heard the arguement that you could get better quality than Colt from another company. A point could be made that others are on par with Colt, I suppose, but I don't have the technical knowledge to argue that point. I personally like Eagle/Armalites. That is what I bought for my last two builds.

I'm no big fan of Colt's silly antics with regard to the civilian market either, but I sure wouldn't let that be cause for me to buy a bushmaster if it's my life that would be protected by the rifle.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:41:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:39:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
I've never heard the arguement that you could get better quality than Colt from another company. A point could be made that others are on par with Colt,


I didn't say higher quality. I said "arguably better". If SaveFerris wants to install a match trigger in his lower that is not available for the Colt's larger pin sizes then just about anything else is going to be better for his purposes. If he or anybody else is trying to build on a budget then a Colt is probably the worst option available.

As to quality, Colt applies tighter quality control so the chances of getting a lemon are less with a Colt than with Bushmaster or other top-tier manufacturer. That doesn't mean that a good lower from Bushmaster isn't at least as well made as a good lower from Colt. It doesn't even mean that Colt doesn't let a lemon slip through from time to time. It just means that the Colt is less likely to have problems. And when you're looking specifically at the lower it really doesn't matter. If you're looking for good quality parts to use in any lower receiver and don't mind paying a little extra then Colt is a good choice for those parts. If you want a great quality milspec barrel and don't mind paying for it then Colt is the best choice. If you want a bolt assembly that has been MP tested at the factory then Colt is the only option. But receivers, especially lower receivers, simply don't have tolerances that are critical enough to make them worth the extra cost.

I say that as somebody who has owned many ARs (including 2 Colts) and has helped a lot of other people build and work on their ARs.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 6:42:06 PM EST
Quit replying on this thread damn it!

Just because those contractors are carrying bushies, doesn't mean I'm going to. Shit.. There are some LE officers in this country carrying OLY ARMS.

I tried a bushy lower, didn't like it, and sold it. (I like my mags to drop free. Not a huge deal, but I'm anal.)

I base my preferences on the instructors opinions that I have trained under in the past. Bushy is good, but Colt guns offer the least amount of malfs in their teaching experience. The AR is an inherently reliable design, and any quality maker will build a reasonably reliable gun. But I prefer to get the best one I can, even if the pins are bigger and the company makes retarded civilian sale policies.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 7:02:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
I base my preferences on the instructors opinions that I have trained under in the past. Bushy is good, but Colt guns offer the least amount of malfs in their teaching experience. The AR is an inherently reliable design, and any quality maker will build a reasonably reliable gun. But I prefer to get the best one I can, even if the pins are bigger and the company makes retarded civilian sale policies.


I agree, but you're confusing complete rifles with the subject of the thread which is the lower receiver itself. The rifle I'm compiling the parts for my next build will use all Colt parts on Mega upper and lower receivers.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:53:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
Quit replying on this thread damn it!

Just because those contractors are carrying bushies, doesn't mean I'm going to. Shit.. There are some LE officers in this country carrying OLY ARMS.

I tried a bushy lower, didn't like it, and sold it. (I like my mags to drop free. Not a huge deal, but I'm anal.)
<snip>



I dunno, I just bought three NIW Center mags and two of them would not drop free from both of my Colt lowers.

I am sure that this is a mag issue and not a lower issue
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:51:17 PM EST
This reply is just so I get the last word in!
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 2:01:15 PM EST
<snort>
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 2:28:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By CB1:
<snort>


ditto
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