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Posted: 12/22/2008 11:08:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2008 11:37:13 AM EST by 101ABN327]
OK. Here is the start...

Barrel Group:

















Link Posted: 12/22/2008 11:12:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2008 11:26:47 AM EST by Hal143]
You are my Retro Hero !!!! Fantastic pics.

The guards were easily removed ?



ETA: Wow the inside of the rear cap has an extra liner inside
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 11:29:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2008 11:33:07 AM EST by 101ABN327]
The guards were a bitch to get off! That's why I only took one off...

They are definately cut down M-16 handguards.

Absolutely no markings of any kind on the moderator.

The only barrel marking was under the FSB.

Oddly enough it had an A1 upper receiver, Colt marked.

Link Posted: 12/22/2008 11:33:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 11:40:19 AM EST










Link Posted: 12/22/2008 11:44:37 AM EST








Link Posted: 12/22/2008 11:55:06 AM EST
I like this thread.



Link Posted: 12/22/2008 12:40:06 PM EST
Close up pics sometimes get things a little out of proportion. The barrel under the guards to me looks medium weight as far as diameter..?? Not pencil thin....but not heavy....is that correct?
What is the gold colored stuff around only one side of the handguards on the rear adapter to the slip ring...??
What is the vintage of this example..??
Thanks for the great pictures and the opprutunity to see inside of some history.
TiredIron
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 12:50:27 PM EST
It looks like the J&T 10.5" barrels would be the correct diameter for a retro build. But they would have to be shortened a .5" though.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 1:08:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2008 1:12:42 PM EST by Dawg180]
My gut was right- carbine version of the early style gas tube, with the bend close to the barrel nut.

In retrospect, we should have asked you to take some calipers with and measure the barrel diameters! That does look a bit heavier than your typical lightweight carbine barrel. Very interesting....

And that buffer is obviously a tool shop job.

Thank you so much for doing this, your pictures and reserach are invaluable to our knowledge base about these firearms!
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 1:19:52 PM EST
Outstanding!!!

That barrel does look like a .750" under the FSB, doesn't it???

I never knew 607's were so...blue...
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 1:25:20 PM EST
tag...how many pictures did you take.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 1:40:36 PM EST
Who's 607 did you get to fondle? Those are about as rare and hens teeth these days. I see it's a military gun. I got to blueprint the gun from the collection at the Ft Lewis Military museum, which is where I got the specs to make my stocks from. Do you mind if I pirate your pics for my reference collection?
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 1:58:22 PM EST
sweet pics. just wish i had some white plastic right now. also nice wrench flats on the buffer tube.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 2:20:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By WA-Tom:
Who's 607 did you get to fondle? Those are about as rare and hens teeth these days. I see it's a military gun. I got to blueprint the gun from the collection at the Ft Lewis Military museum, which is where I got the specs to make my stocks from. Do you mind if I pirate your pics for my reference collection?



This carbine is in the arms room at the 45th Infantry Div. Museum in Oklahoma City. It is on loan from the US Army Center for Military History. I can get access to it again to make measurements in a couple of weeks.

This one was in outstanding shape and had details that I didn't expect. I expected the pins to all be early "divot" type. The grip was non oatmealed and wide. The cut down handguards were a hatchet job and really hard to get off. The buffer was nothing I had ever seen before! It had a steel weight pined in the back end. Bolt Carrier was chrome and had a parked key, bolt was chrome and had a parked extractor!










Link Posted: 12/22/2008 2:34:26 PM EST
Notice that the hex bolts on the butt plate are 2 different sizes, smaller one on the latch?

The wrench flats on the buffer tube would be handy on the new repro stocks, Hint, Hint!

How about the retainer/spacer/ of sorts on the inside of the rear hand guard cap!

That sure looks like a .750 FSB base to me, not .625 for sure!

Thanks for the pictures and info!
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 3:03:25 PM EST
Such a cool little carbine. Awesome pics, 101.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 3:10:20 PM EST
Great Pics, well done.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 3:22:19 PM EST
Great pictures. I didn't know the 607 had the nylon buffer. My 606 has one also.


Link Posted: 12/22/2008 3:30:54 PM EST
Thanks for the pics. I'd give my left nut for that one...
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 3:41:39 PM EST
Godo to know where taht one was located.

I have been planning on making a trip to the Rock Island Aresnal Museum in Rock Island, Illinois in a month or two, and they have a XM607 on display. I might just call in advance and see if there is any way to photograph the internals in detail so we can get a comparison to these fantastic pics.

This is somethign akin to studying wolly mammoth bones a good part of your life and suddenly finding a frozen wooly mammoth- a lot of information here to abosorb!
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:00:45 PM EST
Check out the first picture showing the buffer in the buffer tube. Below it looks to me like the lower latching rod for the butt stock goes all the way through to the inside of the receiver. I find this interesting considering when I installed my 607 stock from MY65Pan I bored this hole deeper than stock but was worried about going to deep because I didn't want to bore through the buffer detent hole.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:00:50 PM EST
How about the retainer/spacer/ of sorts on the inside of the rear hand guard cap!


By Tirediron:
What is the gold colored stuff around only one side of the handguards on the rear adapter to the slip ring...??


I think that's some solder or brazing holding the as yet unknown doohicky sandwiching the guards. That's a new one on me.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:05:23 PM EST
barrel has to be .625 under the FSB. the wrench flats of the moderator is .625. it lines directly up with the barrel in this pic. i believe the outside diameter of that part of the moderator is also .750. its been a while sice i made one. you can use these know dimensions for comparison

Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:09:07 PM EST
sure as shit lookes like the lower rod goes all the way into the receiver. good catch! my65pans stock seems to be very close to the original.

Originally Posted By LDGUNNER:
Check out the first picture showing the buffer in the buffer tube. Below it looks to me like the lower latching rod for the butt stock goes all the way through to the inside of the receiver. I find this interesting considering when I installed my 607 stock from MY65Pan I bored this hole deeper than stock but was worried about going to deep because I didn't want to bore through the buffer detent hole.


Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:14:03 PM EST
Nice stuff! 607 goodness
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:16:45 PM EST
Very Nice Pictures!!!

Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:17:05 PM EST
i just looked and nylon is cheap. did the buffer rattle like current ones indicating seperate weights with the spacers or just a solid steel bar?
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:20:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By LDGUNNER:
Check out the first picture showing the buffer in the buffer tube. Below it looks to me like the lower latching rod for the butt stock goes all the way through to the inside of the receiver. I find this interesting considering when I installed my 607 stock from MY65Pan I bored this hole deeper than stock but was worried about going to deep because I didn't want to bore through the buffer detent hole.


Wow...I guess they just cut some off the detent spring.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:30:10 PM EST
Added Picture.


Originally Posted By machinehead:
sure as shit lookes like the lower rod goes all the way into the receiver. good catch! my65pans stock seems to be very close to the original.

Originally Posted By LDGUNNER:
Check out the first picture showing the buffer in the buffer tube. Below it looks to me like the lower latching rod for the butt stock goes all the way through to the inside of the receiver. I find this interesting considering when I installed my 607 stock from MY65Pan I bored this hole deeper than stock but was worried about going to deep because I didn't want to bore through the buffer detent hole.



http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Colt_607_021.jpg

Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:33:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By Hal143:
Originally Posted By LDGUNNER:
Check out the first picture showing the buffer in the buffer tube. Below it looks to me like the lower latching rod for the butt stock goes all the way through to the inside of the receiver. I find this interesting considering when I installed my 607 stock from MY65Pan I bored this hole deeper than stock but was worried about going to deep because I didn't want to bore through the buffer detent hole.


Wow...I guess they just cut some off the detent spring.


Or they re-drilled the buffer detent hole after the rod was installed?
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 4:58:31 PM EST
Could be
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 5:39:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2008 6:54:00 PM EST by 101ABN327]
Originally Posted By machinehead:
i just looked and nylon is cheap. did the buffer rattle like current ones indicating seperate weights with the spacers or just a solid steel bar?


There was no rattle. The weight was secured with the roll pin you see.




Link Posted: 12/22/2008 6:31:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2008 6:32:34 PM EST by joeyquinn]
Just a heads up.You may want to edit your pics and cover your serial#s.There are so many jerks out there,we all need to cya's.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 6:52:12 PM EST
This gun is in the US Army weapons inventory and secured in an arms room vault belonging to the State of Oklahoma. I guess we ALL kinda own it...

Thx,
101
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 4:40:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2008 4:41:06 AM EST by ranchhand]
Originally Posted By joeyquinn:
Just a heads up.You may want to edit your pics and cover your serial#s.There are so many jerks out there,we all need to cya's.


Covering serials on NFA weapons is a waste of time. How could someone get a fake Form 4 slipped into the ATF file


Nice pics btw . I went to Rock Island but they wouldn't let me fondle any of their toys.
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 5:02:28 AM EST
Do you have a pic of the muzzle end of the moderator?
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 6:17:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By uxb:
Do you have a pic of the muzzle end of the moderator?


That is the one pic I missed. I will get one when I go back. There are a few more details I want to capture, the muzzle end of the moderator being one...

Thx,
101
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 9:23:09 AM EST
Very nice photos. Thanks, 101
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 11:10:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By LDGUNNER:
Originally Posted By Hal143:
Originally Posted By LDGUNNER:
Check out the first picture showing the buffer in the buffer tube. Below it looks to me like the lower latching rod for the butt stock goes all the way through to the inside of the receiver. I find this interesting considering when I installed my 607 stock from MY65Pan I bored this hole deeper than stock but was worried about going to deep because I didn't want to bore through the buffer detent hole.


Wow...I guess they just cut some off the detent spring.


Or they re-drilled the buffer detent hole after the rod was installed?

I'm sure this is what they did, there wouldn't be any room for the detent, much less the spring otherwise. Just remember that the detent spring hole is drilled at 6 degrees from vertical if you opt to go this route.

Link Posted: 12/23/2008 11:17:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 11:36:04 AM EST
Thank You Sir.

For the next trip:
Bring an unloaded 20 rd mag, insert for picture of the whole rifle, L & R views, with stock collapsed and extended.
Better yet, ask if there are any waffle mags "in the back closet."
Bring cleaning rod, insert down barrel to closed bolt, measure this (barrel) length.
Bring a scale, measure weight.
And the calipers for barrel, moderator specs.

Thanks Again.
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 1:56:32 PM EST
Will do. The next trip will be to get the minutia...

101
Link Posted: 1/15/2009 3:31:26 PM EST
when will you be going back?
Link Posted: 1/15/2009 4:03:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2009 4:09:07 PM EST by Morg308]
Originally Posted By Hal143:
How about the retainer/spacer/ of sorts on the inside of the rear hand guard cap!


By Tirediron:
What is the gold colored stuff around only one side of the handguards on the rear adapter to the slip ring...??


I think that's some solder or brazing holding the as yet unknown doohicky sandwiching the guards. That's a new one on me.


Looks like a keeper brazed onto the rear HG cap - yet one more detail for us to all agonize over! LOL. GREAT PICS man! Outstanding!

ETA: Check out the weld around the rear of the moderator - nice weld, but 45Bravo's look cleaner - maybe he can start welding them like that? LOL. Pretty cool to see the real thing. Ask them if they mind you cutting the moderator in half with a bandsaw so we can see the inside of it.
Link Posted: 1/19/2009 8:20:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Morg308:
Originally Posted By Hal143:
How about the retainer/spacer/ of sorts on the inside of the rear hand guard cap!


By Tirediron:
What is the gold colored stuff around only one side of the handguards on the rear adapter to the slip ring...??


I think that's some solder or brazing holding the as yet unknown doohicky sandwiching the guards. That's a new one on me.


Looks like a keeper brazed onto the rear HG cap - yet one more detail for us to all agonize over! LOL. GREAT PICS man! Outstanding!

ETA: Check out the weld around the rear of the moderator - nice weld, but 45Bravo's look cleaner - maybe he can start welding them like that? LOL. Pretty cool to see the real thing. Ask them if they mind you cutting the moderator in half with a bandsaw so we can see the inside of it.


That made me laugh.Thanks for the fine photos! Now I can do a hack job on my habdguards and not worry about it!
Link Posted: 1/31/2009 11:30:41 AM EST
101,

Any idea when you might be able to get some more pics?
Link Posted: 1/31/2009 3:52:33 PM EST
AWESOME! Thanks for sharing. Just what I needed, more detail for my 607 build.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 2:14:47 PM EST
I talked to the museum curator last weekend and he told me I could come by any time. Now I need to find time to get over there. Work is wall to wall this month... Fear not! More pics will be coming.

101
Link Posted: 2/18/2009 1:44:43 PM EST
Any more pics yet?
Link Posted: 2/18/2009 4:53:16 PM EST
Not yet. I talked to the museum curator again and he said anything I needed he could hook me up. I took him to lunch, which helped our collective case out! I will being my digital caliphers and see if I can find a mobile scale.

101
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