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Posted: 12/16/2005 9:52:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Your AR15 isn't a trap gun, however feel free to treat it as you like. If your life may depend on something, its worth cleaning correctly. If not, well, I still clean those weapons properly as well....
Sometimes I think those of us that grew us with weapons, served in the military, or carry them for a living are a distinct minority here. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:02:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Never did any of those things, but I still clean my AR's per the Army's manual. Common sense says if your not an expert, listen to those who are. 
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:12:20 AM EDT
[#3]
Considering it takes, what, a full 5 seconds to break open an AR and remove the bolt group, WTF? Maybe another 5 to 10 seconds to break down the bolt group. Please.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:25:35 AM EDT
[#4]
Would the kerosene dunk do anything too bad? I was wondering about doing that to get all the lower parts clean.
And I figured that motor oil would be too heavy, is that a concern? |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:35:32 AM EDT
[#5]
just dunk the whole rifle in gas for a minute and dry !! 
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:42:31 AM EDT
[#6]
You really should learn how your rifle worsk anyway, so take it down.
I can get my rifle to functional cleanliness, including a breakdown to the extractor, in under 2 minutes. You don't have to go nutso white glove military clean; just get the congealed lubricant-fouling out of your gun, and relube. The vast majority of deposits in your gun are self-limiting. My gun has never seen a chamber star or carbon scraper in its lifetime, and I have NEVER had a failure I could attribute to the gun itself. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 11:09:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Dip entire rifle in Gasoline. Throw match on rifle.
Cook all dirty crap off. Repeat until clean. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 12:02:25 PM EDT
[#8]
What's the problem? You don't even need tools to disasemble the AR! Pop the rear pin, swing the upper over, pull the bolt, run a bore snake through the barrel about five times (let soak with CLP while you do the rest, pull snake through again later) blow out the FCG with nonclorinated brake cleaner, same with upper. Now take the bolt/carrier apart and use CLP and a tooth brush to scrub it good, blow it off with brake cleaner, reapply CLP when the brake cleaner evaps, reassemble. CLP the FCG, bore snake the barrel to ensure no CLP is left, good to go.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 12:21:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Amen. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 12:30:08 PM EDT
[#10]
despite what you'll here there's more too it then toothbrushing and CLPing it. Every once in a while you'll need to clear out the inside of the bolt where the firing pin rests, a tooth brush can't reach through to get everything, and carbon DOES build up inside. I use a .17 bronze brush, I dremeled off the end of the brush, so that the the bristles can reach through the whole bolt, scrub a little, keeps it clean, and it's always a good idea to take off the extractor and clean with a bronze brush, or toothbrush to clean off carbon from building up in the extractor groove.
-mark |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 12:44:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Clean? Hell I've jsut been throwing them in the trash and buying new ones. I do like the idea of gas and matches tho.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 12:48:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Only once, in the 1000's and 1000's of rounds I have fired - did this area merit a cleaning as you suggest..... I noticed some frinction when the pin fell in and out. But I agree - sometimes this area must be looked at. It takes a LOT of rounds to get enough *solid* carbon in this area that the brake cleaner and CLP wont take care of. I think we were discussing the "standard" cleaning and lube process. I ALWAYS disassemble the bolt fully and clean under the extractor. Every single time. And I brush the chamber every time as well. Every once in a while, I scrape my BC, scrape the bolt, clean the firing pin channel, q-tip the barrel extension, remove all the copper from the bore, swab the buffer tube, and blow out the FCG with brake cleaner and then compressed air. But certainly not every time. 
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Posted: 12/16/2005 1:41:10 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 12/16/2005 1:52:53 PM EDT
[#14]
I would think, the best method of cleaning is what is in the Manual.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 1:58:13 PM EDT
[#15]
We have a winner and comparing an AR to a trap gun is like comparing Bologna to Prime rib.............. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 1:58:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Would you change the oil in your car's motor without opening the hood?
Would you take a shower with all of your clothes still on? Would you cook a pizza without removing the cardboard box and wrapping? Would you clean a firearm without breaking it down first?  
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Posted: 12/16/2005 2:23:46 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 12/16/2005 2:23:50 PM EDT
[#18]
  
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Posted: 12/16/2005 2:41:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Unfortunately, that's becoming more obvious every day.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 2:48:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Well I for one am HAPPY to see that. It means more and more new people are coming to the sport, and coming to this site to learn. If only those who grew up with weapons, served, or carry them for a living, participated in our sport, or this site.... that would be bad for everyone. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 3:20:01 PM EDT
[#21]
So you're willing to pay between $600 and $1000 for an AR rifle, but you're too cheap to pay a couple of extra bucks for CLP oil?  I'm sure that motor oil isn't BAD for an AR, I just don't get the logic.Your way of cleaning isn't wrong in any way (and we often cleaned rifles in the army in a similar way), but I prefer to take it down - especially because of the large number of moving parts, and the ease and speed of taking them apart. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 3:24:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Do you always use the highest grade of gasoline in your car? |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 3:31:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Good point.  No, but that's because it's factually established higher grades of gasoline do not actually do anything for your car (unless the engine specifically requires the higher octane level). When things are legitimate substitutes, it makes perfect sense to go with the low-cost alternative. However, I am not SURE that motor oil, designed for high-temperature engine operation, is a substitute for CLP, which is designed for weapons across a wide range of temperature ratings. I'm not saying that I know CLP is better - in fact, I'm saying that I don't know, and since I don't know, then I'll take the advice of experts (like the military and gun manufacturers) as opposed to the guy who wants to save a buck. Don't get me wrong, motor oil might be just as good in every way - and if someone can provide me the data that shows that motor oil is just as effective as a lubricant and cleaner in a firearm (in a normal range of outdoor temperatures), then I'll agree AND will scornfully consider all users of CLP to be suckers and rubes.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 3:35:31 PM EDT
[#24]
http://www.hunt101.com/img/354930.JPG
get um Sgt HalfMast............ |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 3:36:41 PM EDT
[#25]
No but I do use the *minimum* grade which the manufacturers states is necessary for reliable operation. Same reason I use CLP. Duh. Running "super" grade fuel would be comparable to using some other lube "supposedly" better than CLP. CLP is the minimum.... the standard.... it isnt the high grade stuff. Let's say, I could get diesel cheaper than 87 octane. That doesnt mean I would put it in my car - because the manufacturer states not to.... and if I did - I would more than likely have some serious problems! |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 4:33:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Yes I do! On the cars that require it. Not one tank of gas was lower than premiumsince I owned it (2001), and it sure hurt when gas was really high. Others get medium or low grade gasoline. You know what they say "shit in, shit out" My 2 cents that were not asked for. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 5:38:34 PM EDT
[#27]
There's more to a good, proper field stripping than just a good cleaning. A tear-down permits inspection of critical parts for excessive wear, broken and/or cracks such as cam pin, carrier key screws, bolt locking lugs, firing pin protrusion, extrator and others.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 5:56:01 PM EDT
[#28]
I forgot that. I use these new pipe cleaners from Wal-Mart, they are not like the old pipe cleaners, they have stiff bristels built into them. I use those in all the "nooks & crannys". |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:00:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Actually.............I have known guys who did all of the last three. I'm pretty sure wal-mart has done #1, because I've heard of several people getting there oil changed there, then the motor blows up when they drive away do to lack of oil. The monkey in the pit drained it, but monkey #2 on top never even opened the hood to put oil back in. 
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Posted: 12/16/2005 7:02:12 PM EDT
[#30]
That's what I was trying to get across - sans the manufacturer's statement qualification. If: A) Rifles cleaned with motor oil run 100% B) Motor oil is cheaper than CLP Then: C) Motor oil is a more economical choice than CLP I've never used motor oil in a rifle. However, I would like to hear from some people who have. If it turns out that it works, I'm going to switch over to kerosene/carb cleaner/motor oil. It seems a lot easier and cheaper. I really don't care how dirty my guns are as long as they function as intended. I haven't cleaned my Glock because I don't figure I really need to. After I get about 1500 through it, I'll check for wear and whatnot. But I'd rather avoid the work and mess if it means it's both cheaper and faster. I guess the difference between us is that I don't look at CLP as the standard in the analogy, but rather the mid-grade. I would see motor oil (or a complete lack of cleaning, so long as it functions) as the low grade, CLP as the mid-grade, and the wonderlubes as the premium. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 7:31:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Honestly. The cost of lube and cleaning supplies is the LOWEST cost of ANYTHING associated with my shooting hobby.
Weapons, ammo, optics, cases, safes, range fees, fuel, etc...... cleaning supplies isnt even on the LIST. For the tens of thousands of .223 rounds I have fired, I think I *might* have gone thru 5 bottles of CLP. I want to say a spray can of CLP is around $5. In a typical (bench) range session..... I shoot 200 rounds. Assuming .20 per round, that is $40 in ammo. When I go to the Hun farm for a weekend, I easily burn 1000 rounds. That is $200 in a weekend. I come home, and clean 4 rifles. I *might* use 1/5th of a can doing 4 rifles..... so $1 in CLP. $1 for oil, for every $200 in ammo.  If you wanna use motor oil and see if that works for you, fantastic. But dont say you are doing it to save money.... cause that's just not realistic.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 7:38:34 PM EDT
[#32]
You might have a point there.
I am just a very frugal (i.e. cheap) person.
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Posted: 12/17/2005 5:43:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Sniper Wolf,
I have used Motor Oil, ATF, and for very high stress surfaces like bolt lugs and hinge pins in O/U shotguns I use a SMALL amount of STP. 1 bottle of each of these things can be purchased for around $10.00, and will last the average shooter for years. I don't choose Motor Oil because of economics, but because I believe it's better. CLP stands for Clean, Lubricate, Protect. Most of the time when I come across a product that is designed to do several things, it winds up doing none of them well. The military adopts methods and products for a different reason than the average gun enthusiast does. For example it's far more practical for a soldier, or the military itself, to utilize one single product than a shelf full like the average shooter has. I'm not saying that useing a "CLP" product is "bad", just that there are other choices. "Gun Oils" per say aren't bad either, just foolishly expensive for what you get. For example you can purchase a large tube of a good "Moly" based grease for a few bucks. A half ounce of some of these so called, "Ultimate Gun Greases" run as much as $10.00! Look at "Castrol / Hoppes Synthetic Gun Oil". It's priced right around $8.00 for a 4 ounce bottle in a fancy brushed Aluminum Pump Bottle. Is it any better than Mobil 1 which runs about $4.00 a QUART?? You tell me. I have been useing Motor Oil, (both synthetic and dinosaur grade), and ATF for over 35 years on all of my guns. I have never had one rust, or fail because of lack of lubrication. It stands to reason, at least to me anyway, that if this stuff can lubricate pistons and crankshafts flying around in 195 degree heat, it shouldn't be too much of a challenge for it to keep a slide or gun action going for a few hundred rounds. Thats my take anyway, and I haven't been proven wrong in my choice of products yet by any lube related failure. Bill T. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 9:38:16 AM EDT
[#34]
Check out www.cylinder-slide.com. In the tech section you will find a good article on selecting lube. Mostly aimed at pistols and revolvers but good info anyway.
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Posted: 12/17/2005 6:24:47 PM EDT
[#35]
I have been using nothing but MobilOne 5w-20 motor oil now for 2 years. It works better than any gun oil I have tried, and Ive tried every one.
As was stated, if a product is touted to be good at more than one thing, there is a sacrifice. Motor oil is designed to be good at one thing and one thing only, lubrication. The same with carb Cleaner. Its desigend to clean carbon, and nothing else. For instances that need a grease, I use Lubriplate. It is the best, with Tetra a close second. BTW, when you have 5-10 guns to clean every time you go to the range, economics of cleaning supplies is a very real concern. I can easily use a bottle of CLP in one sitting if Ive had a long range day. Id be hard pressed to use an entire quart of MobilOne, which costs the same thing, and doesnt work as well. I keep saying I am going to try a 5gallon mix of Eds Red one of these days, just havent gotten around to it. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 8:17:02 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm willing to buy the logic that motor oil might be as good (or better) a lubricant than CLP, but I wonder - and don't know the answer - if it might become more viscous at extreme low temperature, that could contribute to jamming a rifle? (I'm not trying to be deliberately contrarian - but having served in the military in Scandinavia, I worry about those things ).If automotive motor oil is just as good at extreme low temps (like 0 Farenheit) as CLP, then I may follow your lead, and just start using stuff from my garage when I run out of CLP. (Although I'm still using the same small bottle of CLP I bought four years ago, so it's not like the expense is killing me - but I'm definitely open-minded about this). |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 8:31:54 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 12/17/2005 10:45:48 PM EDT
[#38]
"I'm willing to buy the logic that motor oil might be as good (or better) a lubricant than CLP, but I wonder - and don't know the answer - if it might become more viscous at extreme low temperature, that could contribute to jamming a rifle?"
DK Prof, As far as the logic of Motor oil becoming more viscous at lower temps, you are correct with that assumption in the Dinosaur grades of motor oil. However I've found that Mobil 1, as well as many other synthetics eliminate this problem. Back when I lived in Illinois I had a problem in the winter with my air compressor tripping the circuit breaker because the oil in the crankcase of the compressor became too thick and put too much of a strain on the motor to turn it. I changed the oil in the compressor to Mobil 1 and that eliminated the problem. You can prove this yourself by placing a quart in your freezer overnight. It will thicken somewhat, but not enough to cause any issues. Hell, so does Vodka. Mobil 1 comes in a 0W-20 grade for very cold climates. If I was concerned about the gun functioning well in cold weather I would use ATF. It is a very good, non gumming lubricant that is designed to flow thru small orifices in cold weather. Look at all the small valves, orifices, and ball detents in your automatic transmission. It shifts in the coldest of climates. Between Mobil 1 in the viscosity of your choice, and ATF, 99% of gun lubrication issues are solved. Bill T. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 3:48:32 AM EDT
[#39]
From the The Maryland AR15 Shooters Site, Tips & Tricks:
groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/tipstricks.msnw
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:54:06 AM EDT
[#40]
Sounds like good common sense to me. billt. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 10:26:02 AM EDT
[#41]
Cool - thanks!
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Posted: 12/18/2005 10:50:21 AM EDT
[#42]
New to the AR family.
But with other models when I am too tired after a day at the range, don't have heat in the garage, don't want to break every thing down, but just can't allow the weapon to sit dirty. 1)Plastic sheet and towels on carpet 2)Inspection of cleaning area by wifehe Not done up to standardsh5) optional :Foam bore cleaner(add 15 minutes to process) 6) wipe out and off 7)drip some CLP 6) place in safe 7)sleep tight until next weekend shoot |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 10:54:09 AM EDT
[#43]
When I lived in Lake Havasu City, Az. I worked for a company that produces small alcohol and Nitro burning model airplane engines for the military and hobbyists. Every engine that left the factory was lubricated with common ATF, inside and out. These little engines can cost several hundred dollars and produce over 5 H.P., and will fit into the palm of your hand. ATF is probably the most underrated lubricant on the market today. It also comes in both standard and synthetic grades. And by the way, I moved to Phoenix before Bushmaster moved to Lake Havasu, or I'd still be there! billt.
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