As always, thanks for looking

Before I begin, if I should have posted this in GD or the TF I would ask the staff to please cank the thread-and then kick me in the ass I reckoned that since my question involves my daughter's AR this forum would be appropriate. If I'm wrong then please accept my apology in advance.

My daughter turned seven in March. In addition to the toys and the PlayStation game she wanted I built and gave her a rifle "just like Dad's" per her request-a 22 caliber flattop carbine with a CZ upper and Rock River lower. My daughter is pretty mature for her age, and has wanted to shoot since her fifth birthday.

Over the past year or so she has been methodically taught the rules of proper gun handling. I'm very proud to say that her weapon handling skills are superior to some of the adults I know. She is also very good at helping me clean my rifles, pistols, and shotguns.

Our problem is this: My wife, who is normally a very level-headed person steadfastly refuses to allow our daughter anywhere near a range. She thinks I'm crazy for wanting our daughter to shoot at "such an early age", despite the fact that I've been shooting since age five

Can you fellow parents offer any words of wisdom to get through to my wife? My daughter has expressed the interest, and I feel that she's ready-both emotionally and physically. Before she shoots her AR I intend to start her out on a Ruger 10/22 carbine that I bought expressly for this purpose right before she was born.

The way I see it, if I start teaching her basic marksmanship now then we'll both have a hobby that we can enjoy together for a lifetime. Thanks in advance for your help.

start her out with a red rider in the backyard

Quoted: start her out with a red rider in the backyard

Thank you for your suggestion Doc, but unfortunately that didn't fly either. I have an old Crossman pellet gun and tried to use it to hammer out a compromise, but she wouldn't budge

a family that shoots together stays together, i personally can't wait till my little nefews can go to the range with me and my younger brother there (father) it will be fun and a kick to see those two little boys' shoot there first 22cal cricket rifle which we already have for them, thanks to dad , our father (grandady) beat us to their first firearm god bless him. if you and your daughter have a common interest, then i can not see any reason for you wife to stand in the way, if not for religious or personal reason, not my call. however if you can appeal to her your (wifes) better sences that you are sharing in an interest, that you and your daughter both share . then it is both up to you and especially you daughter to make MOM well aware of her interest. and maybe include MOM in the fun to. and let the daughter show MOM how to bang them down range.

What the wife don't know.....could just be you and your daughters little secret. What's the worst that can happen, you get cut off for a few days....just more time to spend at the range is how I see it.

Please let your wife know that getting your daughter out shooting at an early age will help curb any desire of hers to get to your weapons when you aren't around.  Hiding and making weapons the "forbidden fruit" is a good way to find trouble.

I hope your wife can understand this, good luck.

Warning*19 year old opinion Following*Warning                                            

I would take your wife and daughter to the range (if possible) and demonstrate how resposible your daughter really is. This might also convince your wife that ranges aren't bad, and can be a really fun way to spend an afternoon.

WIZZO

You have my support to take your daughter shooting.  Probably the same with most people here.

You can't win this one.  If your idea doesn't pass the wife test, the left-wing mob (aka the general public) would string you up and make an example out of you.  Your daughter's first grade teacher would be appalled at the show and tell story and you would be visited by the Dept. of Child Services.

I've had to learn the hard way trying to educate my two sons about firearms.  Enjoy the range time by yourself.  Life is never fair.

I have had my daughters to the range since they were 7 and 9.  They love it.  They are the reason I bought a Walther P22...  Even though I love that thing too...  Need a .22LR upper for my AR...  Oh, I'm rambling sorry...

Anyway.  My kids love to shoot, it teaches them responsibility around guns and curbs the curiosity/desire to play with the guns.  They are 9 and 11 now, and I trust them enough around my guns, that I take my carry pistol out of my pants when I get home from work and sit it on the table til I go up to my room and put it away.

It is a very good feeling knowing that I can trust my kids with guns in the house.  Not like it was when I first got the guns, I had to be very careful about setting one down, where they were stored, etc.

First off, I'm glad you brought this topic to me here, where I like to reside more often that the GD....

My stance is, if my pops didn't hand me a .44 Magnum revolver at age eight... things might be different.  My hands were numb for weeks, but I was hooked.  Mom was angry at dad for doing this, but all in all, I have to say my dad made the right move...  Taking be to the pistol range started me off on the true lines of gun ownership.  Of couse before this I would always be in awe of his weapons.  He showed me everything I know, trigger finger control etc.  Even with my toy nerf guns he forced me to only point it at stuff i'd shoot.  Otherwise, no range time.  You and the wife have some discussing to do, but I have to say, remember that the gain for your daughter is going to be enourmous.

Quoted: Warning*19 year old opinion Following*Warning                                             I would take your wife and daughter to the range (if possible) and demonstrate how resposible your daughter really is. This might also convince your wife that ranges aren't bad, and can be a really fun way to spend an afternoon. WIZZO

 Warning*22 year old opinion following*Warning

hey  i gotta give a + 1 to Wizzos reply here-  and wanted to add something...

aside from just shooting holes in paper, you could go a step farther and make it a tad more exciting-  like shooting clay pigeons instead of paper, so the wife and daughter can see something happen, instead of just holes... i dont know... i just think they would find that more fun, make it more exciting.  or maybe get those "shoot and see" paper targets that have the big spot show up...

and- i congratulate you for being a fun dad... mine didnt take me shooting til i was 10

Quoted: ...and- i congratulate you for being a fun dad... mine didnt take me shooting til i was 10

Mine took me once when I was about 8, again when 18, then I had to teach myself when I turned 20. Still resent him for it too.

Thanks for the input guys. What really bothers me about this is that my wife is very much pro-gun. She owns an HK USP40, a Bushmaster "Lady", and just recently she 'comandeered' my new LE6920.

There has to be somebody bending her ear about this. It could be her mother, or one of the uptight busybodies in the PTA. It upsets me that she's being so hard headed about this-it's completely out of character for her. Maybe she's concerned about outward appearances to others. Unfortunately she is unwilling to discuss it rationally, so I've been unable to really get my hooks into her objections.

I completely agree with you Stick about the "forbidden fruit" aspect of kids and firearms. I've always given her complete, supervised access to my handguns and carbines whenever she asks in an attempt to mitigate that risk. I'm less worried about her than I am about one of her friends who finds a revolver in a nightstand or something when my daughter is over to visit. I've been very particular about which friends she's allowed to visit, and I haven't been afraid to bluntly ask other parents if they have any unsecured guns in their homes. I'd much rather sound crass and paranoid than risk losing her over someone elses bad parenting.

another 19 yr old opinion:

my dad and older brother (LE) had me shooting since i was about your daughter's age.  I think growing up with guns may make her more comfortable, and respect what they're capable of (both good and bad).  we all know what happens with people that are afraid of something they dont know about...

Quoted: Quoted: Warning*19 year old opinion Following*Warning                                             I would take your wife and daughter to the range (if possible) and demonstrate how resposible your daughter really is. This might also convince your wife that ranges aren't bad, and can be a really fun way to spend an afternoon. WIZZO  Warning*22 year old opinion following*Warning hey  i gotta give a + 1 to Wizzos reply here-  and wanted to add something... aside from just shooting holes in paper, you could go a step farther and make it a tad more exciting-  like shooting clay pigeons instead of paper, so the wife and daughter can see something happen, instead of just holes... i dont know... i just think they would find that more fun, make it more exciting.  or maybe get those "shoot and see" paper targets that have the big spot show up... and- i congratulate you for being a fun dad... mine didnt take me shooting til i was 10

Warning *40 year old with 5 kids who starting shooting at age 7*Warning

Me experience completely concurs with the 19/22 year olds on the kid part.  My wife has always been a shotgun shooter and occasional pistol shooter.  I would only add that if you give an 8 year old a 9mm AR carbine with an Aimpointe ML 2X, no empty soda can is safe.

then be a family that has an interest in the same hobby, the shootin' type. and to hell with the what others' think or percieve as normal behavior. it seems that the same people that detract from what your family has as far as a common interest are probabaly jealous for 1 or have no clue to what they are rebeling against to begin with. the gun thing in these days and times is a touchy situation, but what ever keeps a family intouch with one another be it scrabble or a card game or what ever, what you have is one of those undeniable rights' TO HAVE, BEAR& ENJOY.  

I dont know if this has been coverd, but why not get your daughter some gun safety courses so your wife would see her as certified. Maybe by that guesture, it would show your wife that your daugter is a willing and responsible young adult who just wants to explore more
[ quote ] "HOBBIES" [ quote ]  with dad. Good luck to you, I think its always great to get em started young, gun safety always #1

Ah... the good ol' days....

The old man put the AR in my hands for the first time at age 9 (started with a single-shot .22 at 4.5, but honestly I wasn't with the program until after 5.  After learning basic care and feeding we did the gallon milk jug of water at 100 yards trick, and I was hooked.  Rules then were same as now... the first display of bad range manners would be the last trip ever.  I still have the same old single shot .22 (which I will hopefully use to teach those same lessons to my son in a few years).

This thread has me all nostalgic and stuff.

Not sure what's up with your mrs., though.  Maybe the first step is to have the "ok, what exactly is going on here, and why do you feel that way?" conversation... you may have done that already, but thought I'd mention it as a good start.  The best counter I can think of to the "she's too young" argument is the "the earlier you learn good safety habits and get experience doing things the right way, the better".  My personal opinion is that learning to safely handle firearms early in life is the most important step in making sure there are no firearm related accidents around the house.  Experience is the best teacher, and nothing drills in the "never ever show the hole in the end of the barrel to anything you don't mean to destroy... and don't touch the trigger until you're absolutely ready to do it" lesson better than poking lots of holes in stuff under controlled (and well supervised) conditions.

I expect that I'll have same problem though, so keep us posted on how you do....

My son is 1 year old and already has 2 pistols, 2 BB guns, and a .22 rifle waiting for him to be old enough to learn to use them... I can't wait.   The way his grandfather is sending him stuff, he'll have more guns than I do by then.

At least half you battle is won, your wife is into shooting. How many guys here complain/ask about their wives/girlfriends hate guns and don't want anything to do with them?

Just keep working with her, I guess take every gun mag ad that shows little kids in them and put them on her pillow every time you see one. Try to get on the US Shooting team's mailing list, they have lots of pics of kids at matches you can use.

It took me a long time to realize that my kids are the same age and older than I was when I had my first BB gun...It took me some time to ask my pro-gun wife about taking the boys out shooting, so I told her about when I started shooting. She said,"Are you saying that you want to take the boys out shooting and not let the girls shoot, too?" So it ended up that she was cool with it, just so the girls get to shoot along with the boys..The girls actually have ended up shooting more than the boys and show more interest..

They love shooting the AR, the oldest daughter (9) actually intimidates my wife with her skill..

I won't bore you with my memories.

Your wife needs to be reminded that when fathers and daughters have good, solid relationships (best formed during wholesome outdoorsy activities like skiiing, shooting, etc.), trust and communication channels form that guide the young woman through the trials of the teen years.  She will ask your advice, and often follow it, more.  Daughters seek partners like their fathers (if the fathers are good role models) or opposite of their fathers (if they are poor role models), resulting in better choices for the future.  Rebellion and disobedience is diminished.  Obviously, exceptions occur, but this is the general pattern.

You are building better grandchildren for your wife.

Good luck.

  Teach your kids about guns before the neighborhood kid does without adult supervision  

That is where 90% of the accidents happen

I have been shooting also since I was 5 y/o with my father and now that I have two boys of my own, I also got them started shooting when they were about the same age when I did it. Me and my father were teaching them how to shoot using their own assault rifle style .22 rimfires. They really enjoyed it and have a great respect of the weapons. At home we practice their airsoft guns doing the same safety procedures we do when firing real guns.

My wife doesn't really like guns because of a bad incident she had when she was a young girl. She doesn't object when me and my boys go on target practice.

I have taught some of my neices and nephews shooting a long time ago when they were about five y/o, and now that they are grown adults, they're now responsible gun owners themselves.

Maybe you should print some of the comments from the members here and let your wife read it and it might convince her to agree with you. Good luck.

Advice from a 39 year old father of two, shooting since age 10.
My son has been shooting since about age 7. This is his recent 13th B-day present. M261 .22 conversion kit installed for starters.




Like someone else mentioned, better for you to teach her about guns and gun safety than another kid at an unexpected time or place.

Tell your wife: If your daughter shows an interest in guns it's better to get her properly trained and quell the curiosity now. It's the kids who are NOT exposed to fire arms and proper safety training that often end up getting hurt.

My daughter is turning 7 in August. She naturally has a curiosity for firearms being around this family. So, come August, she gets her brothers bolt action trainer .22 and the training begins! And if that’s as far as her interest takes her, then at lease I have the peace of mind knowing she was properly trained on firearms safety!




My son and I just happen to be going out later on this morning for some more range time/training!

Quoted: Quoted: ...and- i congratulate you for being a fun dad... mine didnt take me shooting til i was 10 Mine took me once when I was about 8, again when 18, then I had to teach myself when I turned 20. Still resent him for it too.

mine never took me...mine hates guns along with his own parents so i had to rely on a brother....

anyways, you seem like a very good father to be teaching your daughter these things early. like someone said, if they don't find out about guns and learn gun safety, there'll be much more trouble than if they do know. i remember i first went shooting around 6 or 7 in the back yard of a cabin in Ocala with a little German .22 revolver and i loved it. at that time the thing kicked like a mule to me and sounded like a freight train lol but it was still very fun. i agree with Wizzo's idea to bring your wife along with your daughter and show her how responsible not only she can be but also how much you can be.

my two cents...good luck!

My 11 yo daughter loves to shoot my BB pistol, but displays Zero interest in shooting anything that goes BANG!
MY significant other is griping about the 24" upper I'm wanting; maybe I should think about a can.

.... in the interest of proper father-daughter development, of course!

I started shooting at age 6, my sons both started about the same age.    It's alot safer for the kids to remove the mystery of firearms and let them learn to shoot if they have a desire.    I have no fear that my kids will "play" with a firearm.   My 13 year old built his own .50 cal muzzleloader last year and shoots safely.   Always when handing off a firearm the first thing they must say is "finger out of the trigger guard, muzzle in a safe direction"   ALWAYS.    This is mandatory every time they touch one.  It drives home an important rule.   I never gave the wife an option ( ex wife actually )  She was made aware and I noted her objection and did it anyhow.   I would not hide it from your wife, nor would I let her make the decision on this.   She'll get over it, it's not going to break up your marriage.  

Quoted: Please let your wife know that getting your daughter out shooting at an early age will help curb any desire of hers to get to your weapons when you aren't around.  Hiding and making weapons the "forbidden fruit" is a good way to find trouble. I hope your wife can understand this, good luck.

YES!!!

+1

This has nothing to do with pro-gun/anti-gun. This is about Mama's letting babies grow up. Some women refuse to let their babies grow up without a major fight. Firearms are a symbol of liberation and a tool of maturity. Taking a kid shooting means they are reasponsible enough and coming of age. This is what Mom is freaking out about.

Quoted: You have my support to take your daughter shooting.  Probably the same with most people here. You can't win this one.  If your idea doesn't pass the wife test, the left-wing mob (aka the general public) would string you up and make an example out of you.  Your daughter's first grade teacher would be appalled at the show and tell story and you would be visited by the Dept. of Child Services. I've had to learn the hard way trying to educate my two sons about firearms.  Enjoy the range time by yourself.  Life is never fair.

Fuck that bullshit.  I don't care who is "appalled", its your damn daughter, and the first grade teacher can kiss your ass.  There is no law against this.  



It is quite common for people to teach their kids to handle firearms, and shoot them as well, at an early age.  Obviously you should never let them shoot unsupervised (duh, I am sure that you have already figured that out).  Other than that, this is about a decision that you and your wife has to make.  This is a family thing and has nothing to do with anyone else.  

I wouldn't do it if you wife is not comfortable with it, but I am sure that with persistence you will be able to change her mind.

   Went thru something very simuliar with my kid, even tho we were divorced. [ex] I was hauled into court [family]on accusations of  "safety", it went nowhere, as a parent you have the right to teach your children what you believe is correct. Really believe your wife might possibly be concerned with what others might think of her kids and of herself if the school finds out. Well if your kids are good kids, they won't think anything either way, except for a few who probably of a socialistic bent anyways.
    Your kids could be learning valuable safety skills along with discipline and the ability to possibly save their lives someday when they are older. You will be having some intense one on one time with your kids, not just sitting in the room with them.
   It is very hard for momma hen to let the kids start growing up and experiencing new things.[I am not trying to be mean here and it is not an insult]  But they will, with or without her or you. Spreading their wings is a normal healthy part of the parental/child relationship, and also one of the hardest to do.

Have faith.  Reason prevails.

Do not be deceitful.

Have a discussion with your wife.  Listen carefully.  Understand her concerns else you will not be able to address them.

Shooting at a range is safer than many other activities in which your kids participate.  The NRA may have some info/statistics that bear this out.

Show her this thread.

My kids have been shooting since around the age of 4.  Both started on Ruger 10/22s.  Dad's hand always on the forend.  Long before they understood the purpose of the crosshairs they could drain a Butler Creek 25 rd mag faster than I.  By about 6 they had fired my FA Uzi.  I could not afford to keep my son shooting 9mm as long as he'd like.  Fortunately, his little fingers could not negotiate loading mags, so this was the rate limiting step.  My son had also shot the 16 (with mucho forend supervision) by age 6.  Two weeks before he turned 7 my son smacked his first skeet target.  By 8 he smacked his first doubles.  

My daughter has expressed no interest in hunting.........I do not push.  My son is dying to be 10 so that he can hunt turkey and deer.

Good luck.

Sam

I may be crazy but believe that the most dangerous kid with a gun is one who is unfamliar with the gun and what it is capable of.  My kids have always target practiced and hunted. Hunting has given my son a healthy respect for life. We both teared up when he shot his first deer. Most kids don't respect the power or the finality that the weapon brings with it. Its not a movie or video game it is real life! I doubt if the kids who shoot up schools and each other ever had any formal (from dad) training or ever took the life of an animal while hunting.

I didn't read all the posts, but:

It seems the one you need to focus on is your wife.  I would hit her up for some range sessions until she gives in.  The second SHE becomes comfortable with weapons will be the second she be comfortable with the idea your kid wants to shoot.  People are sometimes afraid to let their children do things that they haven't done, or don't do well, or just aren't comfortable doing.  Doesn't matter if it's safe or not.  and risk can deter a parent from lettinghteir kid do it.  You gotta get your wife comfortable with the idea of shooting or she'll never give in...

On another topic:

Why does it seem some people start their kids off on .22's?  When I was 5 my dad gave me a 12 gauge with one round and told me to lean up against a tree.  of course i didn't lean up against the tree and i fell on my ass, but thats besides the point.  IT WAS FUN!!!!!

When my kid turns 5, if they show an interest, I will start them off on whatever gun I have that they like.  It doesn't matter if it's my .17 HMR, or my M1A, that will be what they shoot.  As long as you give them fair warning of what the weapon will do, they will be okay.  If it's too much for them, they can choose something else.  But i feel it should be their choice.  A .223 or 5.56 is not gonna freak any kid out.  I've seen 5-7 year old kids shoot them plenty of times to know the only thing they don't like is the noise.

What are your reasons for not letting your kids shoot anything more than a .22??

My 5year old girl shoots the BB gun almost every day WITH ME.

Though I don't believe that she is quite ready for a real firearm, I have noted very marked improvement in her responsibility with a gun.

Plus I don't want to rush or push her into shooting when the time is not right for her, I think the biggest tragidy would be to scrae her off  form the shooting sports.

Hey Clan NH, let me just run some stuff past you.

Do you and your wife exercise veto power over certain decisions? I don't mean to sound like that is a bad thing. In some marriages it is a very good thing, because you are then accountable to each other. Other couples have different ways of working things out, but this is one way: "If either of us feels strongly enough on an issue, then that person gets to cast the winning vote."

The reason I ask, and not that you need to share the answer here, but just for you to think about: If you don't have an agreement that on certain issues you can veto each other, then why is your wife's opinion more important than yours?

If not:

Do not take the kid to the range behind her back. Explain to your wife that you honor her opinion, but this is important enough to you that you feel you need to carry through on it. You would not sulk around if you decided to go along with her choice, and you expect her not to sulk around if you decide to go along with your choice. After all, you are not putting your child in any sort of risk, so it is not that kind of issue.

This is how grown-ups talk to each other. You have every right to expect the same respect for your POV as you have for hers. If you have talked it all over and simply cannot come to an agreement, then she must just accept that you are acting in your daughter's best interest according to the light you are given to walk by. It is not necessary for parents to agree on everything; what is needed is that they know how to handle disagreements maturely.

So, of course, you can't say "I don't care what you say, I'm doing it my way." It's more like "I hear what you say, I respect what you say, but since we haven't come to an agreement, I have to do what I think is best."

I'm with you. If your daughter wants to shoot, now is the time. She may lose interest as other things come along -- boys are not that far off (shudder) -- and this is precious daddy-princess time you could be logging together.

I grew up hunting and around guns all my life. My dad since I was old enough to aim a gun let me shoot at bottles from inside his truck when we had a slow day at the hunting club.

It would be a blast I bet if you get just pick her up early one day from school (with the wife not knowing) and take her to a range and let her shoot some .22s or whatever you feel is appropriate.

Something like that or like others have said, my mother loves to shoot .22 rifles, but doesn't care to shoot paper either. A metal target would probably be more enjoyable for them. I know sports authority sells .22 targets that are designed for speed and competition shooting between two shooters.

Just a few thoughts.

Quoted: But i feel it should be their choice.   What are your reasons for not letting your kids shoot anything more than a .22??

Because, given the choice, a 5 year old would still be shitting in a diaper and eating ice cream and ketchup for dinner.  Have you ever met a 5 year old?  

Never ever let your kids know you  and your wife disagree on anything .  If you do you work it ouot with your wife and present a united fornt to the child.  From long experience me any my wife have found that if you and youe spouse are split on an issue .001", before you know it, the kids will have drive a tandem semi through that hole and you won't have any idea how it happened.  It used to make me and my wife chuckle a bit when one of the boys would ask if they could do something.  Standard response was "What does your father/mother say?"  Kids would just respond  "Never mind." and walk away.

Take all disagreements offline and then present a united front when you decide a course of action.  You don't always get your way, but is sure kept the family running a lot smoother.  

I think you've done a great job so far, and that the most IMPORTANT step has ALREADY been taken.  Safe gunhandling has already been taught, and a trip to the range was never needed.  At this age, she has learned how to safely handle a firearm.  Actual shooting is not a needed step at an early age, so waiting until your wife is on board isn't going to hurt anything.  

However, I would press the issue of shooting air rifles in the backyard.  That seems like a very reasonable request, and would be lots of fun for you daughter.