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Posted: 11/21/2016 9:59:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Bro, do you even mag dump?
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Posted: 11/21/2016 10:05:21 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 11/21/2016 10:11:50 PM EDT
[#3]
CHF barrels are nice to have. I do not have an auto sear, not likely I will every push my barrels. They are not necessary and there are a lot of great chrome lined button rifled barrels out there.
But I like having some/most CHF barrels in my collection. For me I have proven to myself that their groups remain tighter when they heat up, compared to my nitride barrels. Is it that meaningful, no. Is it cool yea. I don't buy a new CHF barrel every month, but I did/do have the discretionary income to pick one up if I want one. Are they mandatory equipment, no. Are they nice to have, to me they are. Lots of good button rifled barrels. I have a crush on FN CHF barrels. Daniel Defense ain't bad either. Their advantages are proven, not mythical. Will guys like me ever use or need those advantages, probably not. Get what you want/can afford. Enjoy, replace as needed. Depending on your shooting schedule and type of shooting you might not need to replace a good CHF barrel. *buy your own barrel build your own upper |
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Posted: 11/21/2016 11:15:14 PM EDT
[#4]
A few months ago I asked BCM that same question. BFH is CHF btw. I agonized for weeks about which way to go. I bought the BFH. This is what BCM wrote:
Standard barrels are built to milspec and are button rifled giving you a standard effective point and area target range that you would find on a military issued rifle in the same configuration. Standard US Army rifle qualification tables are 50 through 300 meters, for minimum standards. Designated Marksman with the same weapons but different optics can effectively and regularly engage point targets at 800 meters and beyond. Other barrels we offer differ in a few ways. The BFH barrels are cold hammer forged and will have a traditionally longer life span than stainless steel or standard barrels. The rifling in cold hammer forged barrels is created during the hammer forge process. As a result of this process, hammer forged barrels have an increased lifespan and outstanding accuracy. |
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Posted: 11/21/2016 11:31:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A few months ago I asked BCM that same question. BFH is CHF btw. I agonized for weeks about which way to go. I bought the BFH. This is what BCM wrote: Standard barrels are built to milspec and are button rifled giving you a standard effective point and area target range that you would find on a military issued rifle in the same configuration. Standard US Army rifle qualification tables are 50 through 300 meters, for minimum standards. Designated Marksman with the same weapons but different optics can effectively and regularly engage point targets at 800 meters and beyond. Other barrels we offer differ in a few ways. The BFH barrels are cold hammer forged and will have a traditionally longer life span than stainless steel or standard barrels. The rifling in cold hammer forged barrels is created during the hammer forge process. As a result of this process, hammer forged barrels have an increased lifespan and outstanding accuracy. great marketing :) note they say outstanding accuracy and not better. Colt Socom barrels are very very accurate but they are not CHF. Even the increased lifespan claim can be challenged. Are we talking 200 rounds, 1k, or 10k difference? Way too many people get caught up in this vs. that but remember, our boys have been using button rifled barrels for millions of rounds of combat with zero issues. Hell, mr tali is making guns out of soda cans in the back alleys of some $Hithole in paki, does anyone think they don't work cause the barrels are not chf? Buy what is accurate, cheap and fits the build you want |
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Posted: 11/21/2016 11:50:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Not entering the CHF debate on the issue of high cyclic rate of fire. They are proven better under extremely high rate of fire.
I would not say that they have superior accuracy, however. . They can be very accurate, but not benchrest, precision rifle accurate. My match grade Lilja AR barrel, like all Lilja barrels, is button rifled stainless and factory hand lapped. Krieger barrels are single point cut rifled. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 12:14:24 AM EDT
[#7]
If you plan on shooting 40,000 rounds you will see the benefits.
Colts aren't Chf so take that for what it's worth. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 1:30:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: great marketing :) note they say outstanding accuracy and not better. Colt Socom barrels are very very accurate but they are not CHF. Even the increased lifespan claim can be challenged. Are we talking 200 rounds, 1k, or 10k difference? Way too many people get caught up in this vs. that but remember, our boys have been using button rifled barrels for millions of rounds of combat with zero issues. Hell, mr tali is making guns out of soda cans in the back alleys of some $Hithole in paki, does anyone think they don't work cause the barrels are not chf? Buy what is accurate, cheap and fits the build you want Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A few months ago I asked BCM that same question. BFH is CHF btw. I agonized for weeks about which way to go. I bought the BFH. This is what BCM wrote: Standard barrels are built to milspec and are button rifled giving you a standard effective point and area target range that you would find on a military issued rifle in the same configuration. Standard US Army rifle qualification tables are 50 through 300 meters, for minimum standards. Designated Marksman with the same weapons but different optics can effectively and regularly engage point targets at 800 meters and beyond. Other barrels we offer differ in a few ways. The BFH barrels are cold hammer forged and will have a traditionally longer life span than stainless steel or standard barrels. The rifling in cold hammer forged barrels is created during the hammer forge process. As a result of this process, hammer forged barrels have an increased lifespan and outstanding accuracy. great marketing :) note they say outstanding accuracy and not better. Colt Socom barrels are very very accurate but they are not CHF. Even the increased lifespan claim can be challenged. Are we talking 200 rounds, 1k, or 10k difference? Way too many people get caught up in this vs. that but remember, our boys have been using button rifled barrels for millions of rounds of combat with zero issues. Hell, mr tali is making guns out of soda cans in the back alleys of some $Hithole in paki, does anyone think they don't work cause the barrels are not chf? Buy what is accurate, cheap and fits the build you want don't disagree with your synopsis, somebody needs to do a little study on hammer forging barrels. Maybe check out some of the European sources. CHF is not just marketing, but again it isn't something that is an absolute need. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 1:35:13 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not entering the CHF debate on the issue of high cyclic rate of fire. They are proven better under extremely high rate of fire. I would not say that they have superior accuracy, however. . They can be very accurate, but not benchrest, precision rifle accurate. My match grade Lilja AR barrel, like all Lilja barrels, is button rifled stainless and factory hand lapped. Krieger barrels are single point cut rifled. Cut rifling by companies here in the states seems to be the best setup and most accurate offerings. Most of the hammer forging manufacturers don't setup their forging for that intended purpose. Could they compete with your Lilja or Krieger, I am not sure. I bet some of the European CHF barrel makers could compete with cut rifling if they wanted to. I might be wrong, but I bet they could get real close in the neighborhood. I do not disagree with your assessment at all. But there are reasons. It could be done mostly likely. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 1:35:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you plan on shooting 40,000 rounds you will see the benefits. Colts aren't Chf so take that for what it's worth. Colts were. See Diemaco. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 2:32:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Canadian Colts were. See Diemaco. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you plan on shooting 40,000 rounds you will see the benefits. Colts aren't Chf so take that for what it's worth. Colt does use the Canadian HF barrels on some of their rifles, just depending on production demands and contract requirements. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 4:17:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Canadian Colts were. See Diemaco. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you plan on shooting 40,000 rounds you will see the benefits. Colts aren't Chf so take that for what it's worth. True but the vast majority aren't chf, it's hard enough to find a Canadian barrel I didn't see a need to mention it since the point of using colt as an example was to show that non chf barrels stand up to heavy usage pretty well. In fact it's close enough that in the thread started by the guy from battlefield Las Vegas he mentioned that he could see no difference. I'm not always the biggest fan of colt myself but Uncle Sam does ride them hard and put them up wet and they seem to keep on tickin. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 8:29:48 AM EDT
[#13]
I do not have a need for CHF barrels in my style of shooting, however I do prefer 4150 CMV over 4140 when choosing one.
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Posted: 11/22/2016 8:35:59 AM EDT
[#14]
The reason cold rotary forging or swaging barrels was invented was to increase production and reduce cost. It was never to improve accuracy, or anything else, those were beneficial by-products.
Given care and attention to detail during the forging process, these barrels can be quite accurate, as the process will yield a straighter, more uniform barrel over button rifling. The major reason super accurate match and benchrest barrels are not cold formed is because the cut rifling process is slower and can be more easily monitors |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 11:10:24 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not have a need for CHF barrels in my style of shooting, however I do prefer 4150 CMV over 4140 when choosing one. all have preferences, why 4150cmv over 4140. Much like CHF your average shooter will never notice or need 4150 over 4140. Just curious what your preference is based on? |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 3:56:15 PM EDT
[#16]
It makes no practical difference.
The Vanadium in 4150 is to keep the barrel from bursting when glowing orange-white hot. 4150 Vs 4140 is not a factor in practice unless you're one of the few who can afford belt fed full autos and afford to fire them till they glow. Hammer forging is not magic, just a way to make barrels faster. That's why it was invented. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 4:48:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Unless you want an ultra accurate SS barrel I see no reason not to spend another $50 to get a superior CHF barrel.
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Posted: 11/22/2016 6:40:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bro your barrel isn't CHF? Why didn't you just use a straw to save weight then? read Tech rules. You aren't in GD. Little more formal FYI. Don't get OP's thread locked please? |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 6:48:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It makes no practical difference. The Vanadium in 4150 is to keep the barrel from bursting when glowing orange-white hot. 4150 Vs 4140 is not a factor in practice unless you're one of the few who can afford belt fed full autos and afford to fire them till they glow. Hammer forging is not magic, just a way to make barrels faster. That's why it was invented. sure anybody said it was magic. Just better. Question is does average person need better. I suggest you don't need to make it glow orange to see long term benefits. You just have to be the person who likes to get his barrels really hot when shooting them. Will tend to resist throat erosion a little better. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 7:26:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Better is subjective here.
Hammer forging introduces additional stresses of it own to the barrels steel that button, broach and cut rifling do not. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 8:02:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Better is subjective here. Hammer forging introduces additional stresses of it own to the barrels steel that button, broach and cut rifling do not. This always gets reported yet is truthfully and realistically a non starter. *better in regard to heat tolerance and the potential to last longer.
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Posted: 11/22/2016 8:07:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bro your barrel isn't CHF? Why didn't you just use a straw to save weight then? Wow.??? 
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Posted: 11/22/2016 8:08:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The reason cold rotary forging or swaging barrels was invented was to increase production and reduce cost. It was never to improve accuracy, or anything else, those were beneficial by-products. Given care and attention to detail during the forging process, these barrels can be quite accurate, as the process will yield a straighter, more uniform barrel over button rifling. The major reason super accurate match and benchrest barrels are not cold formed is because the cut rifling process is slower and can be more easily monitors I think "may" would be a better choice of words. And not all match barrels are cut rifled. If you were to ask Shilen, Hart, Lilja, Douglas, Schneider and a number of other top level benchrest barrel makers how they make their barrels, you'd find that they are pull button rifled, often followed by hand lapping. We all know that Remington and other "big" firearm manufacturers have been using cold hammer forged barrels for decades in the their production rifles and some of them can be very accurate. But they do it to produce good barrels in volume at a price point. When I asked Remington a number of years ago to build the one and only true Remington Custom Shop rifle I've even owned, I found out that the barrels they put on those rifles are not CHF, but, rather . . . pull button rifled barrels that are then air gauged and hand selected for consistency.. That Custom Shop Remington 700 "Mountain Rifle" is the only hunting rifle I have that will consistently shoot well under MOA with match ammo or my handloads. Their target 40X rifle barrels are also button rifled. Returning to the subject of CHF. I agree with Lug1 that their primary advantage for purposes of this discussion is that they do handle the blow torch effect of hot gasses and the resultant throat erosion issues better than other barrels. For a high cyclic rate of fire rifle, they are the way to go. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 8:15:24 PM EDT
[#24]
I think we're missing some key points. Hammer Forging makes the barrel more dense, which makes it more stiff, which makes it less prone to the effects barrel slap/harmonics.
Sure cut rifled AR barrels can be accurate, if they are done right. Colt M4a1 profiles are very good. But how many massed produced AR barrel are done perfect? How many use chrome lining or "extra thick" chrome lining to hide imperfections in the barrel? How many companies put their barrels on the lathe, look down the bore to ensure center? Remington does a terrible job at this, I still have yet to see a straight bore on a newer 700. NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT CHF VS Kreiger or lilja or shillen or Bartlien. We're talking about CHF vs non-chf milspecs. Match barrel makers should be a lot better than your standard CHF. On that same side you should compare the same profile and the same length of CHF vs NON-CHF. My CHF government profile barrel out performed my non-chf government barrel. Thus most of my guns have them because of it. My Rainier Select 5R shoots tighter groups than my CHF barrel but its different profile, different metal, different rifling, different chamber, it should shoot better than the CHF. With all that said "What is important"? Depends on your needs/wants. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 8:16:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Speaking of this very subject, who IS hammer forging barrel here in the States these days? Anyone? I know that Lothar Walter in Germany does but how about on this side of the pond?
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Posted: 11/22/2016 8:32:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speaking of this very subject, who IS hammer forging barrel here in the States these days? Anyone? I know that Lothar Walter in Germany does but how about on this side of the pond? Defense, FN, KAC, LWRC in AR format. I am missing one or two. It will come to me. Old age. Somebody, Ruger? is producing a .308 barrel with atypical barrel steel. I forget what variety it is. I forget a lot...  Daniel Defense and FN are the only companies offering CHF stand alone for retail. With the possible exception of some stainless 416 barrel offered at AIM surplus, I would not partake. Stainless CHF works better with 410. Several companies producing hammer forged bolt gun barrels. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 8:45:11 PM EDT
[#27]
... and just because the barrel isn't stamped as hammer forged, doesn't mean that it isn't.
It costs less to produce a hammer forged barrel once a manufacturer has the necessary tooling and machinery. Anyway, if I had a Colt barrel sitting next to a hammer forged barrel in the same profile, I'll take the Colt. Unfortunately, Colt doesn't make any barrels in my preferred profiles. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 9:14:36 PM EDT
[#28]
I care more about CHF more on other rifles than an AR. With an AR barrels are too cheap and easy for me to change myself to prioritize the durability CHF adds.
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Posted: 11/22/2016 9:37:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We all have preferences, why 4150cmv over 4140. Much like CHF your average shooter will never notice or need 4150 over 4140. Just curious what your preference is based on? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I do not have a need for CHF barrels in my style of shooting, however I do prefer 4150 CMV over 4140 when choosing one. Because there isn't a price difference of the two |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 9:41:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And Daniel Defense and FN stress relieve their blanks. And the stress you speak of that might cause inconsistency NEVER rears its ugly head in any sample I have seen(a lot) or read about. This always gets reported yet is truthfully and realistically a non starter. *better in regard to heat tolerance and the potential to last longer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Better is subjective here. Hammer forging introduces additional stresses of it own to the barrels steel that button, broach and cut rifling do not. This always gets reported yet is truthfully and realistically a non starter. *better in regard to heat tolerance and the potential to last longer. The Remington PSS I used to have must not have got the memo. It was good for five shots before the POI would creep up and to the left. Stress does cause inconsistency. Don't take my word for it ask any IBSA shooter. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 9:42:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... and just because the barrel isn't stamped as hammer forged, doesn't mean that it isn't. It costs less to produce a hammer forged barrel once a manufacturer has the necessary tooling and machinery. Anyway, if I had a Colt barrel sitting next to a hammer forged barrel in the same profile, I'll take the Colt. Unfortunately, Colt doesn't make any barrels in my preferred profiles. bit of a myth. Having the machinery it still has to get paid off. And the machinery is expensive and requires upkeep. What is accurate is you can turn out more barrels per unit of time. So they are more efficient. Your choice of barrels is your choice. Nothing wrong with Colt. Certainly FN barrels are fine quality also. Also some of the older PSA examples are the only barrels I know of not marked CHF for stand alone AR barrels. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 9:43:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Remington PSS I used to have must not have got the memo. It was good for five shots before the POI would creep up and to the left. Stress does cause inconsistency. Don't take my word for it ask any IBSA shooter. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Better is subjective here. Hammer forging introduces additional stresses of it own to the barrels steel that button, broach and cut rifling do not. This always gets reported yet is truthfully and realistically a non starter. *better in regard to heat tolerance and the potential to last longer. The Remington PSS I used to have must not have got the memo. It was good for five shots before the POI would creep up and to the left. Stress does cause inconsistency. Don't take my word for it ask any IBSA shooter. how you said Remington and not FN or Daniel Defense, Just sayin.... My answer did not include Remington barrels. I am talking readily available AR barrels as this is an AR forum, namely Daniel Defense and FN as I believe I mentioned much earlier. Stress does cause inconsistency. Not particular showing its presence in those brands that I have seen. Again I have been exposed to a few. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 9:46:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Daniel Defense, FN, KAC, LWRC in AR format. I am missing one or two. It will come to me. Old age. Somebody, Ruger? is producing a .308 barrel with atypical barrel steel. I forget what variety it is. I forget a lot... Daniel Defense and FN are the only companies offering CHF stand alone for retail. With the possible exception of some stainless 416 barrel offered at AIM surplus, I would not partake. Stainless CHF works better with 410. Several companies producing hammer forged bolt gun barrels. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Speaking of this very subject, who IS hammer forging barrel here in the States these days? Anyone? I know that Lothar Walter in Germany does but how about on this side of the pond? Daniel Defense and FN are the only companies offering CHF stand alone for retail. With the possible exception of some stainless 416 barrel offered at AIM surplus, I would not partake. Stainless CHF works better with 410. Several companies producing hammer forged bolt gun barrels. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 9:47:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking of this very subject, who IS hammer forging barrel here in the States these days? Anyone? I know that Lothar Walter in Germany does but how about on this side of the pond? Another $64,000.00 question is who is doing all the actual hammer forging for the brand makers offering CHF barrels ? The equipment is specialty stuff and unbelievably expensive. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 9:49:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone know the main vendor for forging the barrel blanks for these companies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Speaking of this very subject, who IS hammer forging barrel here in the States these days? Anyone? I know that Lothar Walter in Germany does but how about on this side of the pond? Daniel Defense and FN are the only companies offering CHF stand alone for retail. With the possible exception of some stainless 416 barrel offered at AIM surplus, I would not partake. Stainless CHF works better with 410. Several companies producing hammer forged bolt gun barrels. just listed them!!!! Those companies own Hammer forges. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 9:51:12 PM EDT
[#36]
FN, Daniel Defense, KAC, and LWRC all make their own. The only question there is LWRC, I am pretty sure they make their own. But not 100%.
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Posted: 11/22/2016 10:11:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just listed them!!!! Those companies own Hammer forges. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Speaking of this very subject, who IS hammer forging barrel here in the States these days? Anyone? I know that Lothar Walter in Germany does but how about on this side of the pond? Daniel Defense and FN are the only companies offering CHF stand alone for retail. With the possible exception of some stainless 416 barrel offered at AIM surplus, I would not partake. Stainless CHF works better with 410. Several companies producing hammer forged bolt gun barrels. Ahhhh, this is good to know. Thank you. Do you know of an independent hammer forging company that supplies to other companies? Like Lothar Walter who makes barrels for various folks but here in the states? |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 10:14:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Notice how you said Remington and not FN or Daniel Defense, Just sayin.... My answer did not include Remington barrels. I am talking readily available AR barrels as this is an AR forum, namely Daniel Defense and FN as I believe I mentioned much earlier. Stress does cause inconsistency. Not particular showing its presence in those brands that I have seen. Again I have been exposed to a few. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Better is subjective here. Hammer forging introduces additional stresses of it own to the barrels steel that button, broach and cut rifling do not. This always gets reported yet is truthfully and realistically a non starter. *better in regard to heat tolerance and the potential to last longer. The Remington PSS I used to have must not have got the memo. It was good for five shots before the POI would creep up and to the left. Stress does cause inconsistency. Don't take my word for it ask any IBSA shooter. My answer did not include Remington barrels. I am talking readily available AR barrels as this is an AR forum, namely Daniel Defense and FN as I believe I mentioned much earlier. Stress does cause inconsistency. Not particular showing its presence in those brands that I have seen. Again I have been exposed to a few. I'll elaborate further. Pre Cerberus Remington. I'm talking about the process of hammer forging rifle barrels not just one or two favorite brands. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 10:16:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just listed them!!!! Those companies own Hammer forges. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Speaking of this very subject, who IS hammer forging barrel here in the States these days? Anyone? I know that Lothar Walter in Germany does but how about on this side of the pond?
Daniel Defense and FN are the only companies offering CHF stand alone for retail. With the possible exception of some stainless 416 barrel offered at AIM surplus, I would not partake. Stainless CHF works better with 410. Several companies producing hammer forged bolt gun barrels. Have a link so we can add the info to our archives ? |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 10:17:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ahhhh, this is good to know. Thank you. Do you know of an independent hammer forging company that supplies to other companies? Like Lothar Walter who makes barrels for various folks but here in the states? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Speaking of this very subject, who IS hammer forging barrel here in the States these days? Anyone? I know that Lothar Walter in Germany does but how about on this side of the pond? Daniel Defense and FN are the only companies offering CHF stand alone for retail. With the possible exception of some stainless 416 barrel offered at AIM surplus, I would not partake. Stainless CHF works better with 410. Several companies producing hammer forged bolt gun barrels. Ahhhh, this is good to know. Thank you. Do you know of an independent hammer forging company that supplies to other companies? Like Lothar Walter who makes barrels for various folks but here in the states? FN, Spikes, Noveske, PSA, Rainier...thinking missing one? Maybe a couple. Made a run of CHF for DRD brand a while back. Daniel Defense barrels are only branded Daniel Defense(pretty sure). Early on they made a run of the Rainier mountain barrels before they switched to FN. You will know FN by the "machine gun steel". "Extra thick chrome lining" m240&249 blanks. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 10:18:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have a link so we can add the info to our archives ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Daniel Defense, FN, KAC, LWRC in AR format. I am missing one or two. It will come to me. Old age. Somebody, Ruger? is producing a .308 barrel with atypical barrel steel. I forget what variety it is. I forget a lot... Daniel Defense and FN are the only companies offering CHF stand alone for retail. With the possible exception of some stainless 416 barrel offered at AIM surplus, I would not partake. Stainless CHF works better with 410. Several companies producing hammer forged bolt gun barrels. Have a link so we can add the info to our archives ? |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 10:30:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll elaborate further. Pre Cerberus Remington. I'm talking about the process of hammer forging rifle barrels not just one or two favorite brands. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Better is subjective here. Hammer forging introduces additional stresses of it own to the barrels steel that button, broach and cut rifling do not. This always gets reported yet is truthfully and realistically a non starter. *better in regard to heat tolerance and the potential to last longer. The Remington PSS I used to have must not have got the memo. It was good for five shots before the POI would creep up and to the left. Stress does cause inconsistency. Don't take my word for it ask any IBSA shooter. My answer did not include Remington barrels. I am talking readily available AR barrels as this is an AR forum, namely Daniel Defense and FN as I believe I mentioned much earlier. Stress does cause inconsistency. Not particular showing its presence in those brands that I have seen. Again I have been exposed to a few. I'll elaborate further. Pre Cerberus Remington. I'm talking about the process of hammer forging rifle barrels not just one or two favorite brands. Just because your Remington barrel sucks, it has no bearing on the CHF process as a whole on companies who focus on barrel science. * I would also add... sorry your barrel sucks. That's a bummer. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 10:51:12 PM EDT
[#43]
My primary point when comparing a Colt barrel to an "x" hammer forged barrel was that people place too much emphasis on a barrel being hammer forged or not. In regard to an AR platform, quantifying a barrel's quality solely on a manufacture process is silly.
It is also NOT a falicy that the production of hammer forged is cheaper, all variables considered. ... and I can comfortably reiterate that just because a barrel doesn't say CHF doesn't mean that it isn't. Drop price $20 on a less desirably non-hammer forged marked barrel and charge $40 more for the identical barrel with CHF markings... marketing baby! I'll leave it at that. My post count isn't high enough to afford me any credibility. Cheers. |
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Posted: 11/22/2016 11:28:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My primary point when comparing a Colt barrel to an "x" hammer forged barrel was that people place too much emphasis on a barrel being hammer forged or not. In regard to an AR platform, quantifying a barrel's quality solely on a manufacture process is silly. It is also NOT a falicy that the production of hammer forged is cheaper, all variables considered. ... and I can comfortably reiterate that just because a barrel doesn't say CHF doesn't mean that it isn't. Drop price $20 on a less desirably non-hammer forged marked barrel and charge $40 more for the identical barrel with CHF markings... marketing baby! I'll leave it at that. My post count isn't high enough to afford me any credibility. Cheers. Well we will agree and disagree on various points. Not worth and argument. Nobody said anything about your post count, that is a silly comment to make. Have a good night. |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 12:27:43 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FN makes most of the independently sold hammer forged barrels. Branded underFN, Spikes, Noveske, PSA, Rainier...thinking missing one? Maybe a couple. Made a run of CHF for DRD brand a while back. Daniel Defense barrels are only branded Daniel Defense(pretty sure). Early on they made a run of the Rainier mountain barrels before they switched to FN. You will know FN by the "machine gun steel". "Extra thick chrome lining" m240&249 blanks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Daniel Defense barrels are only branded Daniel Defense(pretty sure). Early on they made a run of the Rainier mountain barrels before they switched to FN. You will know FN by the "machine gun steel". "Extra thick chrome lining" m240&249 blanks. I appreciate the info, Lug!!! Believe it or not....it was important for me. Thank you again. |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 12:44:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ahhhh, this is good to know. Thank you. Do you know of an independent hammer forging company that supplies to other companies? Like Lothar Walter who makes barrels for various folks but here in the states? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Speaking of this very subject, who IS hammer forging barrel here in the States these days? Anyone? I know that Lothar Walter in Germany does but how about on this side of the pond?
Daniel Defense and FN are the only companies offering CHF stand alone for retail. With the possible exception of some stainless 416 barrel offered at AIM surplus, I would not partake. Stainless CHF works better with 410. Several companies producing hammer forged bolt gun barrels. Ahhhh, this is good to know. Thank you. Do you know of an independent hammer forging company that supplies to other companies? Like Lothar Walter who makes barrels for various folks but here in the states? Lothar Walther barrels are not CHF, they are all button rifled. http://www.lothar-walther.com/398.php |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 12:54:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well you are in AR discussion. You want to deviate from that announce it. It has been pretty clear we are talking about AR barrels. Just because your Remington barrel sucks, it has no bearing on the CHF process as a whole on companies who focus on barrel science. * I would also add... sorry your barrel sucks. That's a bummer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And Daniel Defense and FN stress relieve their blanks. And the stress you speak of that might cause inconsistency NEVER rears its ugly head in any sample I have seen(a lot) or read about. This always gets reported yet is truthfully and realistically a non starter. *better in regard to heat tolerance and the potential to last longer. The Remington PSS I used to have must not have got the memo. It was good for five shots before the POI would creep up and to the left. Stress does cause inconsistency. Don't take my word for it ask any IBSA shooter. My answer did not include Remington barrels. I am talking readily available AR barrels as this is an AR forum, namely Daniel Defense and FN as I believe I mentioned much earlier. Stress does cause inconsistency. Not particular showing its presence in those brands that I have seen. Again I have been exposed to a few. I'll elaborate further. Pre Cerberus Remington. I'm talking about the process of hammer forging rifle barrels not just one or two favorite brands. Just because your Remington barrel sucks, it has no bearing on the CHF process as a whole on companies who focus on barrel science. * I would also add... sorry your barrel sucks. That's a bummer. No worries man, the guy I sold it to with full disclosure seldom needs more than one shot from it. I cited the PSS CHF barrel only as one personal experience example of CHF not being the magic for all things is all. It's not to de rail the thread or start a pissing contest or anything. From my side of the keyboard we're a bunch of guys talking pros and cons about CHF and other methods of barrel production as they relate is all. |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 1:35:12 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lothar Walther barrels are not CHF, they are all button rifled. http://www.lothar-walther.com/398.php Quote HistoryQuoted: Lothar Walther barrels are not CHF, they are all button rifled. http://www.lothar-walther.com/398.php I don't even know know where I got that they were CHF.....probably all of the holiday crack I been smokin'. It's STEYR that does CHF. |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 3:48:46 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FN makes most of the independently sold hammer forged barrels. Branded underFN, Spikes, Noveske, PSA, Rainier...thinking missing one? Maybe a couple. Made a run of CHF for DRD brand a while back. Daniel Defense barrels are only branded Daniel Defense(pretty sure). Early on they made a run of the Rainier mountain barrels before they switched to FN. You will know FN by the "machine gun steel". "Extra thick chrome lining" m240&249 blanks. BCM and Centurion. |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 10:43:51 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BCM and Centurion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: FN makes most of the independently sold hammer forged barrels. Branded underFN, Spikes, Noveske, PSA, Rainier...thinking missing one? Maybe a couple. Made a run of CHF for DRD brand a while back. Daniel Defense barrels are only branded Daniel Defense(pretty sure). Early on they made a run of the Rainier mountain barrels before they switched to FN. You will know FN by the "machine gun steel". "Extra thick chrome lining" m240&249 blanks. BCM and Centurion. |
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