Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 11/1/2002 9:57:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2002 7:51:06 PM EDT by azcopwannabee]
I need full plans for the AVERAGE ar-15 lower reciever. I need any and all info on CASTING receivers, how molds are made, how the peices are removed from the mold, etc.
Please call me names and abuse me.
Gaspian is a dumb butt.

My guess is a 0% type casting and mill the recesses and cavities after the casting. Any help would be appreciated.

A buddy of mine does carbon fiber work on the side. He is wanting to cast lower receivers, but almost complete, very little milling or clean up work. Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 10:36:27 PM EDT
Hesse Arms is selling their molds for their carbon fiber lowers. I asked them for a ballpark figure and they said $50k but they'll accept your best offer.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 11:17:44 PM EDT
hahahahah! no way! not when i can make a mold of an oly receiver and use bondo to fill in the name and logo! you got to be kidding. I just want info on how to mold for PErSONAL USE!
Not manufacture for resale. Its not hard to make a mold, he has already made TURBO CHARGER housings for cars and body kits.
Link Posted: 11/1/2002 11:50:36 PM EDT
I've seen books sold at gunshows which are supposed to have the full plans for the receiver. Search for Palladin Press online.

Somebody sells CD's with the plans on it, IM me with your email for details of that.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 12:46:49 AM EDT
i have already found full plans in pdf format. help with the rest would be cool. also info on pistol config bolt carrier and bufferless design
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 12:54:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2002 12:55:30 AM EDT by Skammy]
www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/cad/

edit: I swear the post above wasnt there when I hit reply
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 9:40:24 AM EDT
it is illegal to make a composite or polymer lower without prior BATF approval, because they dont want people making guns that can make it thru an airport metal detector. IF you do make one you need metal inserts/stiffeners like glock, and BATF approval. You are better off making an 80% lower.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 11:08:24 AM EDT
You want to mold lower(s) for "personal use" by using an Oly as a pattern then obscuring the name and other identifying marks?

Sounds like trouble to me.

Why would you and your buddy want to do that?

Or another question is, "why do you get a discussion going on this, if it could be illegal?"

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and, noting your low post count, figure that you just overlooked the legal aspect, being caught up in the 'wouldn't it be cool' frame of mind, and that you are not:

A: A troll
B: A rookie agent looking to suck somebody into framing themselves
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 11:10:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:
it is illegal to make a composite or polymer lower without prior BATF approval, because they dont want people making guns that can make it thru an airport metal detector. IF you do make one you need metal inserts/stiffeners like glock, and BATF approval. You are better off making an 80% lower.



Can you quote a reference source for this (besides some buddy who read in some magazine somwhere)? I find this highly unlikely..to put it mildly.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 5:52:06 PM EDT
I have gone through all of the files I have on a person making a firearm(for personal use) and can find nowhere it states that a lower cannot be made from a composite. I dont see how it could be a problem considering that all the fire control componets are metal plus the stock, buffer, bolt, barrel,etc are all some form of steel which will be picked up on a metal detector. I dont think the OLY's composite receivers have any metal inserts in them. I have done some work with composite materials and epoxies, it not as eazy as you think, if you are really serious about it go buy yourself a book on it. There are several good ones out there- here a starter-Fiberglass and composite material by Forbes Aird.
Good luck
Z
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 6:20:14 PM EDT
Thank you ZMAN! My buddy works with some HI-q material, he basically makes AUTO BODY KITS, like street racer style. They do ONE PIECE fold over SPOILERS out of carbon fiber instead of the COMPETITIONS fiber glass fold overs. Ther really know thier stuff. I think we will be using short fiber composite. I will talk to him about adding some NYLON fiders or kevlar fibers to the mix. Especially around the stress areas. Some one in GD sugested POLYMER as an easier ALTERNATIVE.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 6:24:17 PM EDT
I bit heavy on the CAPPS bro, I left you a post with some good links in the OTHER post you posted. Good LUCK
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 8:09:31 PM EDT
It's REALLY REALLY ILLEGAL to make a receiver that can pass through a metal detector. Some sort of metal filler is required. It's in the code.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 9:40:22 PM EDT
FINE I WILL MIX IN STEEL SHAVINGS DAMMIT! Christ! Get some balls. I wil be using ALL METAL SPRINGS and OTHER PARTS not to mention an ALL STEEL BARREL! JEEZUS! GO BACK TO CALIFORNISTAN. WHo would try to get an AR past a metal detector?
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 9:43:28 PM EDT
God i swear, a bunch of Gubment feering sheeple. All I want is info. I WILL check the laws, IF i have to add INSERTS I will, I may NEED too anyway for STRENGTH around the buffer tube and takedown pin holes. I AM NOT ASKING FOR ILLEGAL INFO.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 9:48:26 PM EDT
dood your capps lock has an intermittent failure.

And yes we are a bunch of Gubment feering sheeple, have you ever been to jail?
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 9:53:10 PM EDT
Whatever. You don't have to be a jackass. I was just trying to keep you from being a felon. You did ask for "any and all info." I guess you've got too much "balls" to worry about silly things like legality.
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 10:07:50 PM EDT
dont worry Jetlag, this guy is probably still a minor he'll just go to juvy.

Hey azcopwannabee when you go to juvy who's gonna wash your lowered Honduh for you?
Link Posted: 11/2/2002 11:46:43 PM EDT
heres your proof scumbag

Im not giving legal advice. I found this at the BATF site.
-----------------------------------------------

(p)(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any firearm --


(A) that, after removal of grips, stocks, and magazines, is not as

detectable as the Security Exemplar, by walk-through metal detectors

calibrated and operated to detect the Security Exemplar; or


(B) any major component of which, when subjected to inspection by the types of x-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the component. Barium sulfate or other compounds may be used in the fabrication of the component.


(2) For purposes of this subsection --


(A) the term "firearm" does not include the frame or receiver of any such weapon;


(B) the term "major component" means, with respect to a firearm, the

barrel, the slide or cylinder, or the frame or receiver the firearm; and


(C) the term "Security Exemplar" means an object, to be fabricated at the direction of the Secretary, that is --


(i) constructed of, during the 12-month period beginning on the date of the enactment of this subsection, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH

stainless steel in a shape resembling a handgun; and


(ii) suitable for testing and calibrating metal detectors:


Provided, however, That at the close of such 12-month period, and at appropriate times thereafter the Secretary shall promulgate regulations to permit the manufacture, importation, sale, shipment, delivery, possession, transfer, or receipt of firearms previously prohibited under this subparagraph that are as detectable as a "Security Exemplar" which contains 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel, in a shape resembling a handgun, or such lesser amount as is detectable in view of advances in state-of-the-art developments in weapons detection technology.


(3) Under such rules and regulations as the Secretary shall prescribe, this subsection shall not apply to the manufacture, possession, transfer, receipt, shipment, or delivery of a firearm by a licensed manufacturer or any person acting pursuant to a contract with a licensed manufacturer, for the purpose of examining and testing such firearm to determine whether paragraph (1) applies to such firearm. The Secretary shall ensure that rules and regulations adopted pursuant to this paragraph do not impair the manufacture of prototype firearms or the development of new technology.


(4) The Secretary shall permit the conditional importation of a firearm by a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, for examination and testing to determine whether or not the unconditional importation of such firearm would violate this subsection.


(5) This subsection shall not apply to any firearm which --


(A) has been certified by the Secretary of Defense or the Director of

Central Intelligence, after consultation with the Secretary and the

Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration, as necessary for

military or intelligence applications; and


(B) is manufactured for and sold exclusively to military or intelligence

agencies of the United States.


(6) This subsection shall not apply with respect to any firearm manufactured in, imported into, or possessed in the United States before the date of the enactment of the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988.
----------------------------------------
www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

so there you have it

Link Posted: 11/3/2002 6:07:41 AM EDT
Interesting how things have not changed much.
A person post a question & now seeing replys as to if the lower is legal.

I always thought we had freedom of discussion & thought.
Link Posted: 11/3/2002 6:10:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ACGUNNER:
Interesting how things have not changed much.
A person post a question & now seeing replys as to if the lower is legal.

I always thought we had freedom of discussion & thought.


Yeah, we're just a bunch of jerks, trying to help a guy stay legal, oh yeah, we're just a bunch of meanies.
Link Posted: 11/3/2002 9:37:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2002 9:47:03 AM EDT by WSmac]
This seems pretty typical to me also.
Too bad some folks can't get past the name-calling.
I find that the most respectful way to answer a question, especially if you are claiming "illegalities", is to include some type of link or quote that shows a few facts. That way everyone is clear where you are coming from.

prk, you've been around here for a while, I have too. Be careful about judging people by their "low post count", it doesn't always mean what you think it does...

"Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and, noting your low post count, figure that you just overlooked the legal aspect, being caught up in the 'wouldn't it be cool' frame of mind, and that you are not:
A: A troll
B: A rookie agent looking to suck somebody into framing themselves"

gaspain, here's what I read from what you posted.

"heres your proof scumbag
Im not giving legal advice. I found this at the BATF site.
-----------------------------------------------
(p)(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any firearm --
(A) that, after removal of grips, stocks, and magazines, is not as
detectable as the Security Exemplar, by walk-through metal detectors
calibrated and operated to detect the Security Exemplar; or
(B) any major component of which, when subjected to inspection by the types of x-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the component. Barium sulfate or other compounds may be used in the fabrication of the component.
(2) For purposes of this subsection --
(A) the term "firearm" does not include the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(B) the term "major component" means, with respect to a firearm, the
barrel, the slide or cylinder, or the frame or receiver the firearm
; and..."

The way I read this is;
1. The firearm, with only these three specific parts removed (grip, stock, & magazine) needs to be detected by the metal detector used in the manner described. There is no mention of removing the trigger, hammer, sear, etc.

OR

2. The major component has to have it's shape accurately depicted throught the use of normal x-ray machines at the security checkpoints.
I see nothing that says the article has to have metal included. They only state what can be used to help the piece show up properly.

Now, you may have some training with airport security-metal detectors/x-ray machines. I don't, and although I have travelled by air countless times in my life, and have watched the x-ray screen as items pass through, I cannot tell anyone here that I KNOW for certain that a synthetic receiver would NOT show up in it's true shape on an x-ray screen.

Part of the problem with the internet is that it's not person-to-person contact. This leads to flame wars, name-calling, back-biting, etc.
After all these years, I really thought more folks on AR15.com would relax a bit and quit jumping on each other so much.
Too Bad it hasn't happend that way.
Link Posted: 11/3/2002 10:04:15 AM EDT
Azcopwannabe:

Go to the library and start researching the subject.

You seem to be looking for some kind of 50 word answer to a question that represents over 80 years of work in a segment of science and technology involving thousands of research scientists, engineers and technicians.

Do you really expect someone on this forum to explain to you how to build a mold and create a composite lower? Get real! If your buddy is such an expert in this field, let him run with it. After all....... making phony spoilers for the rice rocket crowd is so much like making composite weapons receivers.
Link Posted: 11/3/2002 11:48:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2002 11:55:37 AM EDT by azcopwannabee]
Thank you WSmac. According to a "PREVIOUS" post, then all our GLOCKS would be ILLEGAL TOO!. Not to mention the new SpringField XD. Or the Hi-Point 9mm carbine, or MOST of Cavalry Arms Products. You can always tell who the reasonable people are, and who keeps having to quit jobs cause EVERYONE ELSE has a bad attitude.

TRUST ME! I SHOULD HAVE PUT "CASTING 100% LEGAL CARBON FIBER LOWERS".
Link Posted: 11/3/2002 11:50:44 AM EDT
BTW, i have Xray machine training. These machines can see even a single sheet of paper or through 500. Very sensitive. Plastic and CARBON FIBER show up very well.
Link Posted: 11/3/2002 11:52:48 AM EDT
If this is sooo damned ILLEGAL, then why haven't the mods locked the thread?
Link Posted: 11/3/2002 11:59:16 AM EDT
A big THANK YOU to those who have contributed usefull information.
Metal inserts for strength
Long Fiber Orientation
etc.
Thanks for the links too.

For those of you who are jealous..... You know what to do.

PS i'll try to watchout for the
Link Posted: 11/3/2002 1:13:29 PM EDT
This thread is so old. But I want to make it clear,

_______________________________________
"It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any major componentany major component of which, when subjected to inspection by the types of x-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the component. Barium sulfate or other compounds may be used in the fabrication of the component.
- the term "major component" means, with respect to a firearm, the
barrel, the slide or cylinder, or the frame or receiver the firearm."

______________________________________
it seems clear enough to me! you must have it tested at an xray detector. ALSO PLEASE READ the entire post newbie, I stated earlier that GLOCK has metal inserts. You could add Barium sulfate.
And as for being "jealous" as you said, ya ok keep stroking yourself big man, I have no reason to be jealous, I was just trying to keep you from being a felon which was obviously a waste of my time. In the future dont double post either, because I dont like correcting you twice. You realy piss me off, all I try to do is help you out...whatever im done. Fu%$ off and die.

Link Posted: 11/3/2002 6:45:21 PM EDT
That last post does not even warrant a response:P

Thanks to all, even Gaspy. It is good to be AWARE of all facets of the process. Barium Sulfate, I did see that. My SA XD can have every metal part removed from the PLASTIC frame by tapping out the pins. I am unaware if they LACED it with BARIUM. I can replace my slide rails when they wear down too, Mine are not MOLDED in. This is the END of this thread.
LOCK ME!!!
Top Top