Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
2/21/2020 11:35:28 PM
Posted: 10/29/2004 2:02:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2004 3:45:27 PM EST by mjohn3006]
Friend Foxxz is building a carbine, but wants the full size ACE stock.

How do we do that? Carbine buffer in the full size tube?

Buffer and spring fit fine in a standard length tube. But will it cycle correctly?

Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:24:19 PM EST
Can you take out the full size tube, spring and buffer and put in a carbine tube, spring, and buffer?

-Foxxz
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:31:16 PM EST
Full size ACE stock uses a rifle length buffer and spring. The SOCOM ACE stock uses CAR buffer and spring.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:31:32 PM EST
Do not use a carbine buffer in a full size tube! The bolt assembly will have the capability to come back and contact the rear of the lower receiver possibly causing damge in the long run. If needed to correct the timing/function due to the carbine, use a light weight full size buffer.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:46:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2004 2:46:57 PM EST by DOA]

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Friend Foxxz is building a carbine, but wants the full size ACE stock.

How do we do that? Carbine buffer in the full size tube?

Buffer and spring fit fine in a standard length tube. But will it cycle correctly?




Your kidding, right???? You have over 2k posts and you don't already know the answer ?? Do you post in your sleep?? Seriously, a carbine buffer should NEVER be put in a full size tube.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:05:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2004 3:06:33 PM EST by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By DOA:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Friend Foxxz is building a carbine, but wants the full size ACE stock.

How do we do that? Carbine buffer in the full size tube?

Buffer and spring fit fine in a standard length tube. But will it cycle correctly?




Your kidding, right???? You have over 2k posts and you don't already know the answer ?? Do you post in your sleep?? Seriously, a carbine buffer should NEVER be put in a full size tube.



I never messed with the stocks before. I always just used the carbine with the carbine and the rifle for the rifle. I never thought, nor have ever seen, someone try to use the rifle with the carbine.

I knew there were issues, but figured there had to be away to do it.

And 2K posts comes from too much time in the GD.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:18:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By metalrocks:
Do not use a carbine buffer in a full size tube! The bolt assembly will have the capability to come back and contact the rear of the lower receiver possibly causing damge in the long run. If needed to correct the timing/function due to the carbine, use a light weight full size buffer.



Could you elaborate on the timing issue? Is there a problem with mating an A2 rifle buttstock with a 16" bbl carbine upper?
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:00:54 PM EST
I have used a carbine buffer and spring in a full length tube with complete sucess. I fabricated a 2.25" long x 7/8" wide x 3/8" thick Micarta block that fits behind the spring to shorten the length of travel in the tube and simulate the short buffer tube. Saves a bit of weight and was an interesting experiment.

Email me for a picture if you are interested.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:16:42 PM EST
In most cases there will not be an issue using a 16" carbine with a A2 stock. Look at the number of manufacturers making them like this.

I've had a similar experience with timing/function issues with 24" bull barrel and A2 stock. Using BH match ammo, I had consistent FTE. Even some other ammo FTE. We opened up the gas port to bleed more gas into the system. Still had FTE. Installed a light weight full size buffer and the issue was resolved. Part of this experience made me move away from BH match ammo b/c it seems to be loaded light. Using Hornady and Federal no FTE issues were experienced.

This genetleman's upper may put out enough gas to cycle a full size buffer/tube, but if not he could resolve any issue with just a light full size buffer versus opening the gas port up. Once you start opening a gas port, the timing is affected.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:21:34 PM EST
Jmart: Do not use a carbine buffer in a full size tube! The bolt assembly will have the capability to come back and contact the rear of the lower receiver possibly causing damge in the long run. If needed to correct the timing/function due to the carbine, use a light weight full size buffer.


Tman: Could you elaborate on the timing issue? Is there a problem with mating an A2 rifle buttstock with a 16" bbl carbine upper?

No, it is not a timing issue at all, it is simply a matter of length of the parts. The rifle tube, buffer and spring, are all longer. The shorter CAR buffer is made to fit the shorter CAR tube. The shorter CAR spring is made to give the proper spring rate in the shorter tube.

If you put the short spring and buffer in the long tube, (1) the spring does not have enough compression, so gives less resistance to the carrier, and (2) it allows too much bolt carrier travel such as Jmart described above, because the shorter buffer is not stopped by the end of the longer tube. What is supposed to happen is that the rubber bumper on the back of the buffer is supposed to limit excessive rearward travel to prevent damage to the various parts.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:24:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tman:
I have used a carbine buffer and spring in a full length tube with complete sucess. I fabricated a 2.25" long x 7/8" wide x 3/8" thick Micarta block that fits behind the spring to shorten the length of travel in the tube and simulate the short buffer tube. Saves a bit of weight and was an interesting experiment.

Email me for a picture if you are interested.



Something like this?

Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:28:49 PM EST
Just so evryone knows, I'm NOT using a carbine buffer in a full length tube/spring. I've got an A2 buttstock with a matched tube/spring/rifle buffer. But it's attached to a 16" carbine, not a 20" rifle.

Is there a potential problem with this setup, or in other words, do I need to mate a carbine telestock with a carbine tube/spring/carbine buffer to my upper?
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:35:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2004 4:37:47 PM EST by R-32]

Originally Posted By jmart:
I've got an A2 buttstock with a matched tube/spring/rifle buffer. But it's attached to a 16" carbine, not a 20" rifle.

Is there a potential problem with this setup, or in other words, do I need to mate a carbine telestock with a carbine tube/spring/carbine buffer to my upper?



Not that I have seen, I have 2...No probs ever.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:56:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By jmart:
I've got an A2 buttstock with a matched tube/spring/rifle buffer. But it's attached to a 16" carbine, not a 20" rifle.

Is there a potential problem with this setup, or in other words, do I need to mate a carbine telestock with a carbine tube/spring/carbine buffer to my upper?



Not that I have seen, I have 2...No probs ever.



Thanx.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:53:05 PM EST
Just so evryone knows, I'm NOT using a carbine buffer in a full length tube/spring. I've got an A2 buttstock with a matched tube/spring/rifle buffer. But it's attached to a 16" carbine, not a 20" rifle.

Is there a potential problem with this setup, or in other words, do I need to mate a carbine telestock with a carbine tube/spring/carbine buffer to my upper?


No, a rifle (A2) buffer/spring/tube works fine with 16" barrel (I have one). And 20" barrel works fine with CAR buffer/spring/tube.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 1:49:27 AM EST
Parrandero
A picture of my "spacer" below. Simpler to fabricate from flat Micarta. Very tough material and no indication of damage due to impact from buffer. Note shoulder section that holds position relative to the spring while inserting.

Top Top