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Posted: 1/25/2011 11:37:04 AM EST
High all its my first post.  I've got a DPMS AP4 with the 16"  government profile barrel.  With good ammo and if I do my part what kind of accuracy should I be able to achieve at 100 yards with a 9x scope?  The barrel is not chrome lined.  With cheap ammo I get about 2.5 inch groups.  Just wondering if match ammo would make that much of a difference.
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 12:12:47 PM EST
[#1]
Welcome!

Accuracy is very dependent on the ammunition you use. Your question is difficult to answer without a fair amount of speculation in the mix. My advise to you is to make yourself a variety pack of good quality ammunition (Hornady, Black Hills, Prvi Match, etc) and try it out.

One rifle may shoot 62 grain TAP really well and the next may get terrible groups with it. So try a few different brands and bullet weights to find out where your rifle's sweet spot is.
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 12:15:28 PM EST
[#2]
2.5" is not a bad start if in fact this is cheap ammo. try some better ammo and see what happens. What scope and rings are you using? M4QUADRAIL
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 12:40:23 PM EST
[#3]
Working up some hand loads you should be able to cut your current groups in half. That is if you are capable of doing your part. I don't mean that to sound the way that it does, but it is the truth. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 6:59:20 PM EST
[#4]
Thanks for the input fellows.   I'll probably make it to the range this friday and I'll post some pictures.  I've got some better quality M193 55 gr that I havn't tried out yet.  The cheap ammo I was using was some Federal bulk pack (walmart special) and brown bear 62 gr bs, bs standing for bull sh@t.   I'll never fire foreign ammo through my ar again thanks to brown bear.  I don't reload and don't plan on doing so any time soon but a buddy does and I'll try to throw some of his 75 gr down range as well.
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:03:14 PM EST
[#5]

M193 is probably not going to be much better.  btw is your barrel twist 1:9 or 1:7?  
i ask because with 1:9 you may find out that the 75gr ammo goes every direction but straight.

ar-jedi
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:11:51 PM EST
[#6]
twist i 1:9.   Time and money pending i'm going to through together the mixed bag of goodies that ben762 suggested.  I'll post the results.
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:15:55 PM EST
[#7]
Quoted:
High all its my first post.  I've got a DPMS AP4 with the 16"  government profile barrel.  With good ammo and if I do my part what kind of accuracy should I be able to achieve at 100 yards with a 9x scope?  The barrel is not chrome lined.  With cheap ammo I get about 2.5 inch groups.  Just wondering if match ammo would make that much of a difference.


Welcome to AR15

DPMS can make very accurate barrels


2.5 with cheap ammo is good

could try HP ammo from 45gr to 69gr

For me
I seem to get better groups when useing HP bullets  over ball
even in handguns

Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:36:50 PM EST
[#8]
M193 and Quality typically don't go together as if refers to accuracy.(or is it precision)  As others have said M/XM-193 is usually around 3 MOA ammo at best.  Some barrels may shoot it better than others but that is not standard.  Also don't give up on foreign ammo because of one bad type.  There are some pretty good quality manufacturers that offer a good value.  Try some Prvi.

Go take a look at the ammunition forum and look for posts by Molon and others on accuracy result from different ammos.  With better ammo and depending on your rifle/barrel combo you(your rifle) should be able to get near 1 MOA or better.
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:40:26 PM EST
[#9]
Of course there is no way to know for sure how accurate any particular rifle is without shooting it but ARs can be very accurate.  I have an 18" barrel AR that I put together for less than $1000 that will pretty regularly do MOA (1 inch at 100 yards).  I do tend to buy match ammo, but I think that the particular batch of surplus ammo that I have been using in that gun was all it took to get MOA accuracy.  But to be sure, ammo makes a big difference in accuracy.  Consistency is the key and cheap ammo often lacks the carefully controlled manufacturing conditions and testing necessary to get that consistency.  But from time to time one does find a cheap batch of ammo that surprises and shoots as well as the expensive stuff.  There is also an aspect of barrel harmonics (includes the entire rifle, and the shooter, actually) so that a particular type of ammo that is great in one gun might shoot badly in another.  It is not actually possible though for inconsistent ammo (ammo with widely varying primer, powder and bullet characteristics) to shoot well in anything, at least at long distances.

The general consensus is that Federal Gold Medal Match ammo is the best of the bunch, so that is what I would try if I didn't want to experiment with a bunch of different brands.  Make sure you pick a bullet weight (actually bullet length... well actually it's even a bit more complex than that) that is suitable for your barrel's rifling twist rate.  A 1 in 9 barrel will generally work with ammo up to 69 grain, 1 in 8 will handle pretty much anything, as will 1 in 7.  It is true that you don't need a 1 in 7 to shoot light ammo (like 55 grain ammo and lighter) but it will shoot accurately with that twist (there really is no such thing as an over stabilized bullet.)
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:48:59 PM EST
[#10]
Wow.  Some great info here.  Looks like i've got my work cut out for me.  1"  at a100 is my goal.  Was mainly just wondering if that was a little bit to much to ask out ofa 16" barreled 700 dollar carbine.  hahaha the rest of the night will be spent studying ballistics and what not.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 5:27:19 PM EST
[#11]
The m193 ball did pretty well!  Got about a 1.5 shooting very slowly.  Maybe my barrell likes the 55 grain stuff.  Next week after i receive my o.t.  check i'm gonna try some Federal Gold Match and the Hornady 40 grain V-max.  Also if I feel like paying way to much I might get the winchester ballistic silvertips.  They shoot great in my .308 and are hell on deer;  I just don't like the price.  Just trying to learn a little bit at a time.  Thanks again for the help all
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 5:29:45 PM EST
[#12]
Quoted:
The m193 ball did pretty well!  Got about a 1.5 shooting very slowly.  Maybe my barrell likes the 55 grain stuff.  Next week after i receive my o.t.  check i'm gonna try some Federal Gold Match and the Hornady 40 grain V-max.  Also if I feel like paying way to much I might get the winchester ballistic silvertips.  They shoot great in my .308 and are hell on deer;  I just don't like the price.  Just trying to learn a little bit at a time.  Thanks again for the help all


sounds like a nice AR15

Good luck to ya
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 7:32:54 PM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
Wow.  Some great info here.  Looks like i've got my work cut out for me.  1"  at a100 is my goal.  Was mainly just wondering if that was a little bit to much to ask out ofa 16" barreled 700 dollar carbine.  hahaha the rest of the night will be spent studying ballistics and what not.



Thats a lot to ask out of any 5.56 chambered carbine,  between $700 and $2700.   The new SCAR's and ACR's don't typically shoot that well.      1.5 MOA is a good goal to shoot for though.  That would be darn good  for any off the rack duty style carbine
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