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Posted: 10/14/2010 8:20:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2010 9:40:26 AM EDT by Spengo]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would appear that buying IR lasers from Canadian companies is not regulated by the FDA. I have searched and have not found any topics on this subject.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=9809&N=4294541779+4291316868

Has anyone here bought IR lasers made in Canada before? How do they compare to their American counterparts like the AN/PEQ-2 or 15? I can't seem to find any reviews of them online. The LAM 2 in particular seems pretty nice.


EDIT: sorry, figured it would go in the "accessories" part of "Dedicated to NV Optics and Accessories"
Link Posted: 10/15/2010 4:58:00 AM EDT
Not made in Canada, made in Belrus.
Another member bought one and posted pics earlier this year.
Link Posted: 10/15/2010 8:21:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spengo:

EDIT: sorry, figured it would go in the "accessories" part of "Dedicated to NV Optics and Accessories"


Yeah the site needs an IR subsection under nightvision or something. I have no interest in any of the lights/visible lasers and I assume many in the NV section feel the same way.

IR is only used with night vision and IMO, it should be kept in the NV section.

You have to scroll through 50 bs threads here to find a IR thread.

Back on topic, I am interested in this as well.

-dan
Link Posted: 10/15/2010 9:00:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2010 12:03:24 PM EDT by Spengo]
Originally Posted By wes1:
Not made in Canada, made in Belrus.
Another member bought one and posted pics earlier this year.


Got a link to the thread? (if it is archived, hopefully all the pics are in the first post! )

Good to know there were no hangups in customs or anything though.

EDIT: FOUND IT! http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=235434&page=8
Unfortunately the original thread is now archived. :/
Link Posted: 10/15/2010 9:18:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2010 8:27:03 AM EDT by Ryan_Ruck]
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Originally Posted By wes1:
Not made in Canada, made in Belrus.
Another member bought one and posted pics earlier this year.


Got a link to the thread? (if it is archived, hopefully all the pics are in the first post! )

Good to know there were no hangups in customs or anything though.

EDIT: FOUND IT! http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=235434&page=8
Unfortunately the original thread is now archived. :/


That was probably me back in March. And this was the thread that is now archived - http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=488263

There's a lot of information there so it would be quite a bit of work to copy my entire review over. I will, however, give you the link to my Photobucket album where the pictures I took for the write up are hosted. If you are serious about buying, I'd think about signing up for a Team Membership so you can read over my review to see if it is what you are looking for.

I picked mine up from Ram Optic. They have it listed for $1350. They also are now selling the LAM3 which adds a visible red laser like the PEQ-15. They want $2077 for that. The $100 you save getting it from Ram instead of B&H would cover the $24 Team Membership.

Anyway, here's the photos:


By the way, no update on ability to hold zero (didn't have it zeroed before I took the XCR out ) just yet but, as for reliability, the aimer and illuminator still work fine after 150 rounds of 7.62x39. With the days getting shorter and a friend going to be putting some rounds through my XCR soon, I should get a chance to check the zero hold.

One thing I will add is that I found after messing with it quite a bit, there was some very little front to back movement which was fixed by shimming it. I don't know if that is due to the non-standard rails on the XCR or if it is the design of the LAM. All I ended up needing to shim it was a small piece of toothpick in the gap of the rail and there is now no movement at all.
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 12:56:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2010 12:57:28 PM EDT by TCBA_Joe]
Cool, Ryan found that thread before I did.

Wish they made them with the Insight plug. Laser Devices is going with the Insight plug, and it'd be nice if they did too for standardization.

I've considered getting one, but I'm going towards suppressors right now over NV.
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 1:12:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Cool, Ryan found that thread before I did.

Wish they made them with the Insight plug. Laser Devices is going with the Insight plug, and it'd be nice if they did too for standardization.

I've considered getting one, but I'm going towards suppressors right now over NV.


Suppressor is next on my list. I'm patiently waiting for the Vltor Volks suppressor to hit the market. It looks pretty promising.
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 5:04:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Cool, Ryan found that thread before I did.

Wish they made them with the Insight plug. Laser Devices is going with the Insight plug, and it'd be nice if they did too for standardization.

I've considered getting one, but I'm going towards suppressors right now over NV.


Suppressor is next on my list. I'm patiently waiting for the Vltor Volks suppressor to hit the market. It looks pretty promising.


I've been following that. However, I'm leaning towards to soon to be released AAC 762-SDN-6. More expensive but the multi-caliber aspect appeals to me.

I'd probably be more into night vision if there were ranges around here I could shoot at night. Maybe once I have a suppressor....

I really am not sure if I like the newcom switch. Does it attach to the picatinny rail in any way? You had yours in the VFG cutout.
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 7:06:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2010 7:24:48 PM EDT by Spengo]
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Originally Posted By wes1:
Not made in Canada, made in Belrus.
Another member bought one and posted pics earlier this year.


Got a link to the thread? (if it is archived, hopefully all the pics are in the first post! )

Good to know there were no hangups in customs or anything though.

EDIT: FOUND IT! http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=235434&page=8
Unfortunately the original thread is now archived. :/


That was probably me back in March. And this was the thread that is now archived - http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=488263

There's a lot of information there so it would be quite a bit of work to copy my entire review over. I will, however, give you the link to my Photobucket album where the pictures I took for the write up are hosted. If you are serious about buying, I'd think about signing up for a Team Membership so you can read over my review to see if it is what you are looking for.

I picked mine up from Ram Optic. They have it listed for $1350. They also are now selling the LAM3 which adds a visible red laser like the PEQ-15. They want $2077 for that. The $100 you save getting it from Ram instead of B&H would cover the $24 Team Membership.

Anyway, here's the photos:


By the way, no update on ability to hold zero (didn't have it zeroed before I took the XCR out ) just yet but, as for reliability, the aimer and illuminator still work fine after 150 rounds of 7.62x39. With the days getting shorter and a friend going to be putting some rounds through my XCR soon, I should get a chance to check the zero hold.

One thing I will add is that I found after messing with it quite a bit, there was some very little front to back movement which was fixed by shimming it. I don't know if that is due to the non-standard rails on the XCR or if it is the design of the LAM. All I ended up needing to shim it was a small piece of toothpick in the gap of the rail and there is now no movement at all.


Nice, thanks! I am going suppressor first too, but I wanted to see what options were around.
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 7:08:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2010 7:16:11 PM EDT by Ryan_Ruck]
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
I really am not sure if I like the newcom switch. Does it attach to the picatinny rail in any way? You had yours in the VFG cutout.

No it doesn't attach plus it is pretty oddly shaped. You are supposed to attach it with supplied double-sided Velcro tape but it ends up being impossible to get 100% tight. I ended up putting adhesive Velcro on the switch (which doesn't have a ton of contact area because of the odd shape of the switch) and VFG. It stays put now. The design certainly limits mounting options.

I'm wondering if another pressure switch could be spliced onto it. Wouldn't think it would be too hard to do with a little heat shrink to clean it up. I know the connector is 3 pin. One of those pins turns the unit from constant on when the switch is not connected to momentary when it is. The other 2 pins complete the momentary on circuit. I think... I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a spare switch to experiment with.
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 7:14:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Nice, thanks!

No problem!
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 7:34:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Nice, thanks!

No problem!


Nice review, looks like it is good to go. Size of a peq-15, price of a peq-2. :)
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 8:00:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Nice review, looks like it is good to go. Size of a peq-15, price of a peq-2. :)

Thanks! Glad it helped. Like you said, there isn't a lot of information out there on these and I was hoping to remedy that. If you've got any other questions, let me know and I'll try and answer them.

Nice membership by the way.
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 9:36:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2010 9:48:31 PM EDT by Spengo]
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Nice review, looks like it is good to go. Size of a peq-15, price of a peq-2. :)

Thanks! Glad it helped. Like you said, there isn't a lot of information out there on these and I was hoping to remedy that. If you've got any other questions, let me know and I'll try and answer them.

Nice membership by the way.


Did you ever get a round pattern generator/diffuser for it? Also, I would be interested to see the differences between the LAM 10M 3A and the LAM 2 lasers, if it is noticeable much. I might go with the 10M 3A if the illuminator is pretty meh on the LAM 2. TNVC's DA TORCH illuminator pretty much rocks so it might be a good idea to go with that plus an IR laser without an illuminator. According to the spec sheet the LAM 2 laser has a tighter and farther reaching beam though.
Link Posted: 10/16/2010 11:13:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Did you ever get a round pattern generator/diffuser for it? Also, I would be interested to see the differences between the LAM 10M 3A and the LAM 2 lasers, if it is noticeable much. I might go with the 10M 3A if the illuminator is pretty meh on the LAM 2. TNVC's DA TORCH illuminator pretty much rocks so it might be a good idea to go with that plus an IR laser without an illuminator. According to the spec sheet the LAM 2 laser has a tighter and farther reaching beam though.


It might have been hard to tell from the crappy pictures but you can adjust the width of the the illuminator pattern narrower to a round pattern that reaches out pretty far (Newcon claims 2000m but I didn't have enough space to test that). When you start widening the pattern it gets oblong and the direction it gets oblong in seems to be dependent on which way the diode or lens is installed. Newcon doesn't have a set angle that these appear at either.

As I mentioned, I wasn't happy with mine and Newcon got the pattern oriented better (vertical though I would have preferred horizontal). I have not followed up with Ram Optic to see if they are now stocking the pattern generators/diffusers. They had told me it would be about 6 months before they had them and that would have been about a month ago. I probably should!

I will say that although I haven't had any hands on time with Da Torch, I've heard nothing but good things about it and if the LAM 10 is as good as the aimer on the LAM 2 (though no variable power on the LAM 10 sucks), it would probably be a good match (and a little cheaper too!).

By the way, here's what the illuminator looked like narrowed to reach out further:


Again, sorry for the poor quality. If you'd like I can try and get better pictures.
Link Posted: 10/17/2010 9:44:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Did you ever get a round pattern generator/diffuser for it? Also, I would be interested to see the differences between the LAM 10M 3A and the LAM 2 lasers, if it is noticeable much. I might go with the 10M 3A if the illuminator is pretty meh on the LAM 2. TNVC's DA TORCH illuminator pretty much rocks so it might be a good idea to go with that plus an IR laser without an illuminator. According to the spec sheet the LAM 2 laser has a tighter and farther reaching beam though.


It might have been hard to tell from the crappy pictures but you can adjust the width of the the illuminator pattern narrower to a round pattern that reaches out pretty far (Newcon claims 2000m but I didn't have enough space to test that). When you start widening the pattern it gets oblong and the direction it gets oblong in seems to be dependent on which way the diode or lens is installed. Newcon doesn't have a set angle that these appear at either.

As I mentioned, I wasn't happy with mine and Newcon got the pattern oriented better (vertical though I would have preferred horizontal). I have not followed up with Ram Optic to see if they are now stocking the pattern generators/diffusers. They had told me it would be about 6 months before they had them and that would have been about a month ago. I probably should!

I will say that although I haven't had any hands on time with Da Torch, I've heard nothing but good things about it and if the LAM 10 is as good as the aimer on the LAM 2 (though no variable power on the LAM 10 sucks), it would probably be a good match (and a little cheaper too!).

By the way, here's what the illuminator looked like narrowed to reach out further:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc40/ryaneruck/LAM/Illuminator/100_0396.jpg

Again, sorry for the poor quality. If you'd like I can try and get better pictures.


Better pics would be awesome! :) If you have the free time and don't mind...

Also, I'm kind of wondering why the guys at TNVC don't sell these, they could make a killing off IR lasers that aren't FDA regulated. Or does it only work that way if the seller is located in Canada?
Link Posted: 10/17/2010 11:34:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck:
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Did you ever get a round pattern generator/diffuser for it? Also, I would be interested to see the differences between the LAM 10M 3A and the LAM 2 lasers, if it is noticeable much. I might go with the 10M 3A if the illuminator is pretty meh on the LAM 2. TNVC's DA TORCH illuminator pretty much rocks so it might be a good idea to go with that plus an IR laser without an illuminator. According to the spec sheet the LAM 2 laser has a tighter and farther reaching beam though.


It might have been hard to tell from the crappy pictures but you can adjust the width of the the illuminator pattern narrower to a round pattern that reaches out pretty far (Newcon claims 2000m but I didn't have enough space to test that). When you start widening the pattern it gets oblong and the direction it gets oblong in seems to be dependent on which way the diode or lens is installed. Newcon doesn't have a set angle that these appear at either.

As I mentioned, I wasn't happy with mine and Newcon got the pattern oriented better (vertical though I would have preferred horizontal). I have not followed up with Ram Optic to see if they are now stocking the pattern generators/diffusers. They had told me it would be about 6 months before they had them and that would have been about a month ago. I probably should!

I will say that although I haven't had any hands on time with Da Torch, I've heard nothing but good things about it and if the LAM 10 is as good as the aimer on the LAM 2 (though no variable power on the LAM 10 sucks), it would probably be a good match (and a little cheaper too!).

By the way, here's what the illuminator looked like narrowed to reach out further:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc40/ryaneruck/LAM/Illuminator/100_0396.jpg

Again, sorry for the poor quality. If you'd like I can try and get better pictures.


Better pics would be awesome! :) If you have the free time and don't mind...

Also, I'm kind of wondering why the guys at TNVC don't sell these, they could make a killing off IR lasers that aren't FDA regulated. Or does it only work that way if the seller is located in Canada?


They could legally sell them. However, I think it falls under their company policy of selling what they deem "combat worthy". I asked one of the guys about this a while back and their answer was they were "ok". Some held zero better than others. TNVC doesn't even sell EoTechs, I doubt they're interested in Canadian IR lasers.

This looks promising for the American market. However they've never sold widely, and their marketing sucks.

2 things that would make me consider a purchase carefully is the zero issues and the crappy tape switch. If the illuminator sucked it wouldn't be the biggest loss due to the ability to buy illuminators like Da Torch. However, if the laser sucks that's the biggest deal breaker.
Link Posted: 10/17/2010 12:27:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DEERSNIPER:
Originally Posted By Spengo:

EDIT: sorry, figured it would go in the "accessories" part of "Dedicated to NV Optics and Accessories"


Yeah the site needs an IR subsection under nightvision or something. I have no interest in any of the lights/visible lasers and I assume many in the NV section feel the same way.

IR is only used with night vision and IMO, it should be kept in the NV section.

You have to scroll through 50 bs threads here to find a IR thread.

Back on topic, I am interested in this as well.

-dan
Agreed.

Link Posted: 10/17/2010 1:58:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/17/2010 5:07:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TNVC:
We tried it awhile back when we allowed IR lasers in the NV forum...We then got FLOODED with visible lasers in the NV forum and so now everything "lasers" is put in the lights and lasers section. Site staff also thought this was the best place to be put lasers in their dedicated tech forum. Hope this helps.

Vic


Gotcha. Good call.

Vic, do you have any more info on these? I think you were the guy who chimed in on the last thread.

Could you expound more on your experience with these optics?
Link Posted: 10/20/2010 8:26:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Better pics would be awesome! :) If you have the free time and don't mind...

Also, I'm kind of wondering why the guys at TNVC don't sell these, they could make a killing off IR lasers that aren't FDA regulated. Or does it only work that way if the seller is located in Canada?

Okay, here are some better shots I just took about 2 hours ago.

These are through my Gen 3, Omni III MUM directly mounted to my XCR behind the LAM. Conditions are about a 3/4 moon with no clouds and 34% humidity. The LAM is that black blocky object at the bottom. All shots are unmagnified as I lack NV magnification.

Low power illuminator, tight pattern on my shed at 50 yards


High power illuminator, tight pattern on my shed at 50 yards


High power illuminator, tight pattern on tree line about 215 yards away


I'm not sure what was causing that reflection next to and under the LAM with the illuminator on high but, it looks like I need find out what it is and put something non-reflective there. I hadn't noticed it before since my last shots I took were with the MUM detached from the rifle.

And these little buggers decided to come out while I was taking pictures. They were about 90-100 yards away

I didn't have enough hands to take a picture while holding the rifle and camera to hit the pressure switch but, the illuminator lit them up pretty good on high.
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 8:15:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2010 8:39:13 AM EDT by Spengo]
nice pics!

Also, I stumbled across this other IR laser that appears to be sold to civilians without the tail caps (incomplete unit).
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=261074&page=1

It is cheaper, but I don't care too much about that. What I do like is that it is *very* low profile. Unfortunately hayesresearch.com appears to be down. :/
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 10:39:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spengo:
nice pics!

Also, I stumbled across this other IR laser that appears to be sold to civilians without the tail caps (incomplete unit).
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=261074&page=1

It is cheaper, but I don't care too much about that. What I do like is that it is *very* low profile. Unfortunately hayesresearch.com appears to be down. :/


No longer in the laser business.
I did not care for the hayes laser as the "dot" was 5 MOA or bigger. It was not what I wanted for hunting

Link Posted: 10/22/2010 10:52:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wes1:
Originally Posted By Spengo:
nice pics!

Also, I stumbled across this other IR laser that appears to be sold to civilians without the tail caps (incomplete unit).
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=261074&page=1

It is cheaper, but I don't care too much about that. What I do like is that it is *very* low profile. Unfortunately hayesresearch.com appears to be down. :/


No longer in the laser business.
I did not care for the hayes laser as the "dot" was 5 MOA or bigger. It was not what I wanted for hunting



Ah, ok. That's a little disappointing. I find it kind of surprising that Insight or some similar well-known laser manufacturer doesn't make a super low profile IR laser like that though.
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 10:59:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spengo:
Originally Posted By wes1:
Originally Posted By Spengo:
nice pics!

Also, I stumbled across this other IR laser that appears to be sold to civilians without the tail caps (incomplete unit).
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=261074&page=1

It is cheaper, but I don't care too much about that. What I do like is that it is *very* low profile. Unfortunately hayesresearch.com appears to be down. :/


No longer in the laser business.
I did not care for the hayes laser as the "dot" was 5 MOA or bigger. It was not what I wanted for hunting



Ah, ok. That's a little disappointing. I find it kind of surprising that Insight or some similar well-known laser manufacturer doesn't make a super low profile IR laser like that though.


Not really. They make enough $ off mil contracts that they aren't willing to stick their necks out and attract the ire of the FDA over this.
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 1:43:51 PM EDT
It's against FDA regualtions for US based IR laser producers of Class 3b laser products to sell to the public PERIOD. All US made IR Lasers fall under FDA regulations concerning radiation and eye safety. Lasers Like the VITAL-2 are CLASS 1 eye safe, it's like having a PEQ with the safety block engaged. Drops the power to <.7mW. I wish they never stopped making the CORSAK lasers fromn Belarus. They were inexpensive but a pain in the butt to sight in, but once there they stay zeroed pretty well. I just don't see why you can't get a permit to own an IR Laser outside Law Enforcement/Military ?
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 12:44:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2010 12:53:18 PM EDT by BushBoar]
ETA: NM
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