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Posted: 3/10/2005 8:23:50 PM EST
Woudl it be ok to load once round when you insert the bolt and bolt carrier? And then from there on you wont need a charging handle because of the bolt catch. Is this ok? or a no no?
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 8:28:36 PM EST
I have to ask "why"
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 8:30:49 PM EST
Oh, it wouldn't hurt anything if that's what you're asking.

I'd hate to have any kind of malfunction halfway through a mag......
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 8:55:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2005 8:55:25 PM EST by AFSilverado]
You probably can but I would NOT!!!
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 9:10:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 9:35:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2005 9:36:30 PM EST by 223semiauto]
How are you going to shoot the fucker when you can't even load it normally.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 9:36:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
The charging handle is in direct line with the gas tube and is mostly the only thing that keeps gas from the gas tube from blowing directly into your face.



+1 You will get massive amounts of cordite in your eyes and mouth.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 9:37:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2005 9:37:34 PM EST by BigB1129]

Originally Posted By alex_all_alone:
I have to ask "why"



Need a charging handle for another AR because I am going shooting tommarow but there is a snow storm coming and I probably will not be able to make it to the store 45 min away, the range I can make it to only a few minutes,
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 9:37:11 PM EST
second your going to get 25000 psi to the face.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 9:37:39 PM EST
Yea why???????????????
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 9:42:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By 223semiauto:
How are you going to shoot the fucker when you can't even load it normally.



once you have it loaded, you do not need to pull the charging hadnle again, unless there is a malfunction. But I forgot about the gas so it looks like I either need to make a journey though the snow to the store or forget shooting the AR.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 11:11:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
Need a charging handle for another AR because I am going shooting tommarow but there is a snow storm coming and I probably will not be able to make it to the store 45 min away, the range I can make it to only a few minutes,



If you are going to put the charging handle into the rifle that you are going to shoot, why are you concerned about the rifle that will be left without one (which you can swap over in about 20 seconds)? Homeland defense for someone left at home while you're at the range? If your girlfriend is going to shoot at an intruder, just tell her to point the rifle in the general direction without placing her face on the rifle to aim! If it were an emergency and you really needed to fire, I'm sure it would work just fine. If the situation is other than the above, and you just want to see what happens (i.e., bumpfiring underwater, firing a rifle that has parts missing, etc.), immediately mail me your AR and I'll send you a backup charging handle (in case you loose the one that is currently in the one you're taking to shoot tomorrow) absolutely free of charge!
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 12:25:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By TexanInOhio4:

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
Need a charging handle for another AR because I am going shooting tommarow but there is a snow storm coming and I probably will not be able to make it to the store 45 min away, the range I can make it to only a few minutes,



If you are going to put the charging handle into the rifle that you are going to shoot, why are you concerned about the rifle that will be left without one (which you can swap over in about 20 seconds)? Homeland defense for someone left at home while you're at the range? If your girlfriend is going to shoot at an intruder, just tell her to point the rifle in the general direction without placing her face on the rifle to aim! If it were an emergency and you really needed to fire, I'm sure it would work just fine. If the situation is other than the above, and you just want to see what happens (i.e., bumpfiring underwater, firing a rifle that has parts missing, etc.), immediately mail me your AR and I'll send you a backup charging handle (in case you loose the one that is currently in the one you're taking to shoot tomorrow) absolutely free of charge!



I have more than 1 person shooting the rifle though at once. Thanks for the advice, looks like I just need to wait for another one
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:32:33 AM EST
so your going to load one in the chamber and then put the bolt gorup in and snap the upper closed to get going??

sounds like too much work.


like everyone has stated your gonna gag on the gases blown into your face and if you have some sort of malfunction your screwed..

get the charging handle
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:38:44 AM EST
Would it take your eyes out if you didn't wear eye protection?


Dumb idea if you ask me.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:49:02 AM EST
Snow, dang an actual winter huh.... Sunny and 72 degrees in the pacific NW Sun is nice but I miss the snow, be sure to build a snowman and use a little tannerite

Btw, dont shoot without the charging handle. Swap it between rifles if need be.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:23:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
The charging handle is in direct line with the gas tube and is mostly the only thing that keeps gas from the gas tube from blowing directly into your face.



Would make a decent hairdryer if you don't mind the power residue.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:43:40 AM EST
Can you drive a car without a steering wheel? Sure, right up until you hit something.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:00:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Delp:
Can you drive a car without a steering wheel? Sure, right up until you hit something.



+1
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:17:53 AM EST
Whoever said there were no dumb questions never spent a day on AR15.com!!
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:18:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
The charging handle is in direct line with the gas tube and is mostly the only thing that keeps gas from the gas tube from blowing directly into your face.



+1, it won't hurt the rifle to operate it like that - but I'll be the operator won't appreciate the hot gasses comming back - wear eye protection!
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:19:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
Need a charging handle for another AR because I am going shooting tommarow but there is a snow storm coming and I probably will not be able to make it to the store 45 min away, the range I can make it to only a few minutes,



You imply you have another AR - take the charging handle from that one when you want to shoot the other AR.

Otherwise BUY A JEEP and hit the store or forget about shooting.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:29:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 4:58:08 PM EST
What's all the talk about gas blowing out without a charging handle? Any of you guys actually own, shoot, and clean an AR? Last time you looked, the charging handle was a cheap piece of aluminum that was no pressure boundary. See that hole in the end that fits over the gas key on the bolt carrier? That gas key fits over the gas tube, that's the pressure boundary.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:33:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By CCPD:
What's all the talk about gas blowing out without a charging handle? Any of you guys actually own, shoot, and clean an AR? Last time you looked, the charging handle was a cheap piece of aluminum that was no pressure boundary. See that hole in the end that fits over the gas key on the bolt carrier? That gas key fits over the gas tube, that's the pressure boundary.



Thats what I was thinking I doubt the CH can stop any gas from leaking out. But I did make it to the gun store so I did not find out what would happen.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:51:14 PM EST
OK... who's going to be the first one to run out and shoot their AR without the handle, showing that it can be done. Come on... don't tell me know one has thought of doing this as an experiment???
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 6:52:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:34:21 PM EST
Dosn't the CH help guide the key onto the gas tube? I am not looking right now, but I think the carrier key rides in the channel of the CH to make the tube & key line up. So IMO, you could damage the gas tube when the key hits it off center.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:39:25 AM EST
No doubt, the charging handle provides a channel guide for the bolt carrier. Not to mention, it makes it convenient and easy to charge the weapon. My only point is that it is no gas seal. I don't know that you could fire an AR without the charging handle because I don't think you can "cock" it otherwise. If you were to disassemble it to remove the charging handle, the bolt would have to be fully forward (i.e., locked) to put the rifle back together. And, if you tried to charge it by pushing on the bolt face with a rod, you wouldn't be moving the carrier and therefore causing the lugs to rotate and unlock. It's almost like you would have to go in from the ejection port and get something in there to push the bolt carrier back.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:24:09 AM EST
Um, just dont take it with you.

Silly.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:59:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
The charging handle is in direct line with the gas tube and is mostly the only thing that keeps gas from the gas tube from blowing directly into your face.



By the time the gas key has pulled away from the gas tube, the gas rings should have reached the relief ports, exhausting all pressurized gasses to the atmosphere. Any remaining puff of gas would be just that, a puff. I doubt the average shooter would even notice it.

Shooting an AR without its charging handle would be an interesting dare, bet or thing to do out of curiosity, and I doubt it would have any ill effects. I agree that it would not be a good idea for an actual shooting session, though, as it would be a major hassle and might be dangerous or cause damage as people tried to figure out how to extract a live round, clear a jam or otherwise operate the gun with a major assembly missing.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:24:23 AM EST
Hmm.... I might have to try this next time I go to the range....
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:04:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By GaryM:
Hmm.... I might have to try this next time I go to the range....



Or not.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:17:12 PM EST
Hey, give the guy credit for at least having the sense to ask first. Otherwise, his post may have been: "Hey, I have carbon deposits in my eyes now and I can't figure out how to extract a live round. Why? Well, I removed my charging handle....."
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:54:35 PM EST

_________________________________________
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 4:35:38 PM EST
make sure someone with you has 911 on speed dial. youre the kind of guy the gun banners want to save from themselves.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 4:51:59 PM EST
Bumpfiring it underwater is the only way to tell if there is any gas escaping from where the charging handle should be.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 5:35:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 5:36:59 PM EST by BigB1129]

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
make sure someone with you has 911 on speed dial. youre the kind of guy the gun banners want to save from themselves.



thats exactly why I was asking first. I wasnt going to go try something that I knew could hurt myself
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 5:51:12 PM EST
The inside channel of the charging handle provides the channel for the gas key to ride in, keeping it aligned. Removing the charging handle will create a larger channel (the one in the upper itself) which the gas key does not quite fit. So, the gas key can be misaligned with the end of the gas tube when it comes forward. The chamfer on the end of the gas key might be enough to realign it, or it could be off by just enough to either 1) take a chip off the edge of the gas tube, or 2) dig in like a chisel.

As for gas in the face, it'll be a moderate puff. Enough to get some stuff in your eyes and bother you, but it's not going to rip your nose hairs out by sheer wind speed or anything like that. Remember that even after the carrier has unlocked the bolt and started moving back, there is gas still exiting the gas tube and the upper receiver is still at positive pressure. It doesn't suddenly stop blowing as if by magic the instant the carrier divorces the gas tube. If it did, the only carbon you'd ever find would be inside the carrier and on the back of the bolt, instead of everywhere inside the action like usual.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 11:45:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 11:53:12 AM EST by GaryM]
Allrighty folks now that I am home I did a bit of looking and here is what I found. The bolt carrier is kept in alignment by more by the gas key riding in the channel of the upper reciever than by the charging handle channel.
The gas key is already over the gas tube (and of course aligned) long before the gas key enters the fore part of the charging handle.
I could detect no discernable difference in rotational freeplay of the bolt carrier with and without the charging handle present.
I removed the bolt carrier and charging handle, replaced just the bolt carrier and manually cycled the bolt several times all the while trying to get the bolt carrier to turn in a fashion that might cause the gas tube/key to bind/improperly mate. It wouldn't do it.
I would suggest some of you shotgun your ARs, remove the charging handle and re-insert bolt then manually cycle the bolt a few dozen times and see how it works. Of course leave the lower reciever shotgunned or remove it entirely for this test.
The worst case scenario I can see is as someone said earlier, a small puff of gas right at nose level and I bet a piece of masking tape would contain that.
Of course I wouldn't recommend using your rifle like this but as an experiment to test functionality I see no problem what so ever, hell, this ain't aqua-bumping ya know....

ETA, a quick correction.
It looks as if the gas key NEVER even enters the end part of the charging handle until the last 1/16th of an inch or so at which time the gas key is already slipped over the gas tube by at least 1/2 inch! The best the charging handle can do is assist (and it might not even do that) in guiding the bolt carrier forward.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:25:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 1:30:55 PM EST by JosephR]
yup. the charging handle isn't necessary for operation. for those of you who wanted to explain how you can "see" it not working without a charging handle to align, etc. I say good job, nice try.

People hear strange things and then come up with all sorts of supporting details. How?


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