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Posted: 11/24/2007 6:24:44 PM EDT
I would love to know if an ar can survive a case head seperation? In one piece.
Link Posted: 11/24/2007 6:28:06 PM EDT
read : kaboom

what do you have planned?
Link Posted: 11/24/2007 6:28:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2007 6:30:14 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Chuck25:
I would love to know if an ar can survive a case head separation? In one piece.


There have been photos in the past of this type of kaboom on this forum. Usually the mag blows out, the bolt breaks, and the upper is often irreparably bowed out, but the damage has always been contained to the point where the shooter has not been seriously injured.

But they will all require some parts replacement to function again.

Do an archive search for "Kaboom".
There a few threads out there, some with photos.
Link Posted: 11/24/2007 6:34:19 PM EDT
nothing planned I saw the kabbom thread and was curious if that was the standard
carnage. Thanks for the replys. My goal is to go through life without one
Link Posted: 11/24/2007 7:00:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chuck25:
nothing planned I saw the kabbom thread and was curious if that was the standard
carnage. Thanks for the replys. My goal is to go through life without one


Then keep a clean, well-lubed AR and shoot only high quality factory ammo. If strange things start to happen, stop firing and figure it out. Resist the temptation to bump-fire.
Link Posted: 11/24/2007 8:01:52 PM EDT
I treat my ARs just like a red headed Romanian WASR, if it blows up their cheap and their all over the place. Just get another one.
Link Posted: 11/24/2007 9:54:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabon:
I treat my ARs just like a red headed Romanian WASR, if it blows up their cheap and their all over the place. Just get another one.


...adopt me....please
Link Posted: 11/25/2007 9:21:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabon:
I treat my ARs just like a red headed Romanian WASR, if it blows up their cheap and their all over the place. Just get another one.


So how many have you blown up then, and how.

Just curious.
Link Posted: 11/25/2007 12:47:39 PM EDT
None and I don't expect to, they are not fragile.
Link Posted: 11/25/2007 1:14:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabon:
None and I don't expect to, they are not fragile.


Yep, short of bad ammo or bore obstruction, tough as nails.
Link Posted: 11/25/2007 1:15:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabon:
I treat my ARs just like a red headed Romanian WASR, if it blows up their cheap and their all over the place. Just get another one.


Maybe so, but fingers and eyes are not.
Link Posted: 11/26/2007 2:00:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By agreendale:
read : kaboom

what do you have planned?


Yes, please take video.
Link Posted: 11/26/2007 2:05:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/26/2007 2:17:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2007 2:26:48 PM EDT by ArimoDave]
If the casehead separation is due to too many reloadings and the case seaparates because it is too thin above the web, then the only problem will be that gas and a bit of brass will blow back through the locking lugs and around the extractor. The gas and debris will then be deflected by the bolt carrier and will proceed down the magazine and back through the action. There will be little damage done.

Now, if the casehead separation is due to an over-pressure round, then all kinds of other things can happen. It all depends on how high the pressure is, and how quickly it builds.

ETA: For example;

In the picture above my post, my best guess here is that there was a bore obstruction just past the gas port. It appears that most of the gas went down the gas tube and blew the bolt carrier apart. The bolt is still stuck in the barrel extension which is cracked. The locking lugs are likely to be cracked as well, both on the bolt and the extension.

This might have been caused by an overpressure round too, but the peak of the pressure curve would have been later than say loading with pistol powder.

If the case were overcharged with too fast a powder then the bolt and/or the extension would be separated breaking the locking lugs. There is also the possibly of a bulging or bannana peeling the barrel at the chamber end.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 11:43:35 AM EDT
When I first started shooting AR's back in the 80's, I had a partial head separation with unknown vintage gun show reloads. Nothing happened to the gun at all and I keep shooting it today. (Better ammo, though)

Fast Ed
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 11:58:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2007 11:58:50 AM EDT by 0612Devil]

Originally Posted By ArimoDave:
If the casehead separation is due to too many reloadings and the case seaparates because it is too thin above the web, then the only problem will be that gas and a bit of brass will blow back through the locking lugs and around the extractor. The gas and debris will then be deflected by the bolt carrier and will proceed down the magazine and back through the action. There will be little damage done.

Now, if the casehead separation is due to an over-pressure round, then all kinds of other things can happen. It all depends on how high the pressure is, and how quickly it builds.

ETA: For example;

In the picture above my post, my best guess here is that there was a bore obstruction just past the gas port. It appears that most of the gas went down the gas tube and blew the bolt carrier apart. The bolt is still stuck in the barrel extension which is cracked. The locking lugs are likely to be cracked as well, both on the bolt and the extension.

This might have been caused by an overpressure round too, but the peak of the pressure curve would have been later than say loading with pistol powder.

If the case were overcharged with too fast a powder then the bolt and/or the extension would be separated breaking the locking lugs. There is also the possibly of a bulging or bannana peeling the barrel at the chamber end.



I know this isn't the reloading forum, but how many reloads can a .223/5.56 case go through before having to be discarded?
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 9:35:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
I know this isn't the reloading forum, but how many reloads can a .223/5.56 case go through before having to be discarded?


A bottle-necked cartridge case should take a long time to separate at the web, if ever, assuming it is properly resized to match the headspace of the rifle.

Usual mode of failure is cracking of the neck and shoulder due to cold work, which will happen after 4-5 loadings, if not annealed.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 6:52:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BattleRife:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
I know this isn't the reloading forum, but how many reloads can a .223/5.56 case go through before having to be discarded?


A bottle-necked cartridge case should take a long time to separate at the web, if ever, assuming it is properly resized to match the headspace of the rifle.

Usual mode of failure is cracking of the neck and shoulder due to cold work, which will happen after 4-5 loadings, if not annealed.


My experience has been the opposite in semi-auto firearms (in bolt guns it is the necks eventually cracking with properly resized ammo). Out of the 10's of thousands of rounds I have reloaded and fired shooting hipower over the years, the neck and shoulder rarely crack. It is the head that starts to show signs of failure first, usually a shiny ring starts showing slightly above the web of the case head. To be safe one has to full length resize, yet not over resize and create excessive headspace and accelerate the rate which the stretching occurs. From my experience most cases are ready to trash between 4 and 6 reloads in semi-autos. It depends upon the quality of the brass, pressures, amount resized and the individual characteristics of the firearm type.
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