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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/12/2005 11:50:58 PM EDT
or can some other finish be applied to match the rest of an AR?
Link Posted: 7/12/2005 11:54:32 PM EDT
SS can be blackened. Robar does this or you could bead blast it and them either GunKote or Norrels Moly or Duracoat it.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 2:33:38 AM EDT
SS is oxide coated, which is different from park.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 8:40:41 AM EDT
Can worn oxide finished stainless be 're oxide coated' or can more be applied without stripping?
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 8:49:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ALAN308:
Can worn oxide finished stainless be 're oxide coated' or can more be applied without stripping?



Not sure. I asked a couple companies if oxide coating of SS parts was "home brew" capable and they flat out told me "NO". It could be that this is true or it could be they are protecting their own turf. Who knows. I haven't found any info on how to do it, what the process is or what it's capable of.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 9:01:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gotm4:
SS can be blackened. Robar does this or you could bead blast it and them either GunKote or Norrels Moly or Duracoat it.



Bead blast? Are you sure about that? Norrell's says specificaly not to bead blast because the resin won't adhere well. I think you may have meant sandblast. If you got Norrell's to stick to a bead blasted surface I'd like to hear about it for my next project. MJD
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 9:35:55 AM EDT
I ordered a special Stainless steel blueing from a chemical company when I want the blacken my Stainless DCM barrel. Works like a charm. Can show pics post info if anyone cares. Don't have the rifle anymore, but can blacken piece of SS and take a pic.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 9:46:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
I ordered a special Stainless steel blueing from a chemical company when I want the blacken my Stainless DCM barrel. Works like a charm. Can show pics post info if anyone cares. Don't have the rifle anymore, but can blacken piece of SS and take a pic.



Info via email or IM would be welcome, if you are willing to send it.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 9:52:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Info via email or IM would be welcome, if you are willing to send it.



Big +1 here. I've got a barrel I'd like to try this on.
Thanks
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 9:57:26 AM EDT
Just out of curiosity, why would one want to do this?
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 10:08:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
Just out of curiosity, why would one want to do this?



To make shiny stuff black?
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 10:17:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2005 10:44:57 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By _DR:
I ordered a special Stainless steel blueing from a chemical company when I want the blacken my Stainless DCM barrel. Works like a charm. Can show pics post info if anyone cares. Don't have the rifle anymore, but can blacken piece of SS and take a pic.



Info via email or IM would be welcome, if you are willing to send it.



It will be after I go home tonight because I can't remember the name of it. But I'll get that for you. and take some pics. I'll have to find something stainless. It was like $35 for a quart and bluish colored.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 10:38:57 AM EDT
I light sanded my SS barrel to make it more abrasive then clean it with acetone then heat it up
Then I applied Norrel Flat black on it and cook it for about an hour. Came out very nice.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 10:59:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:
or can some other finish be applied to match the rest of an AR?



Yes

Olympic sells SS barrels on many of their rifles and carbines , and they are black
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 11:31:13 AM EDT
Adco did an excellent job KG coating my RRA rifle barrel.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 3:08:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
It will be after I go home tonight because I can't remember the name of it. But I'll get that for you. and take some pics. I'll have to find something stainless. It was like $35 for a quart and bluish colored.



I am interested as well. More so, I would like hear how well it held up (against chemicals, scratches, abrasions etc.)

Thanks


Originally Posted By exocet:
I light sanded my SS barrel to make it more abrasive then clean it with acetone then heat it up
Then I applied Norrel Flat black on it and cook it for about an hour. Came out very nice.



Same questions? How well is the Norrels adhering to the SS barrel?

Thanks guys
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 4:07:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cgv69:
Same questions? How well is the Norrels adhering to the SS barrel?

Thanks guys




Mine have been holding up very well, with finishes that have been on a few years.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 5:16:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By cgv69:
Same questions? How well is the Norrels adhering to the SS barrel?

Thanks guys




Mine have been holding up very well, with finishes that have been on a few years.



Thanks Stickman

Can I ask, how did you "rough up" the surface of the SS before applying the Moly? (Bead blast, sand blast, sand paper, other?)? I was thinking going over it a good couple of times with a green scotch brite pad may not be bad (assuming someone doesn't have easy access to a sand blasting equipment) or is that not "rough" enough? Emery Cloth maybe?

Thanks
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 5:45:07 PM EDT
i light sanded mine. First maybe 200 gritt then 400 for super fine sanding. Then clean everything with acetone and then the usual Norrel process...been holding good.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 6:00:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By exocet:
i light sanded mine. First maybe 200 gritt then 400 for super fine sanding. Then clean everything with acetone and then the usual Norrel process...been holding good.



See I would have thought 400 grit would leave too fine of a surface for the Norrels to "bite" to. Good info thanks!
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 6:16:27 PM EDT
Getting back to this black oxide, I think that we have not found the right guy to let s in on a basic thing we all want to know about.

I have been in a welding shop and seen steel stock black oxide treated. It did not seem a mysterious treatment. Sheets of steel. piled everywhere, all treated. That steel was wearing well also, I must say. Wouldn't it be interesting to know about this? Stainless 1911 slides, your stainless custom builds' barrels... I am going to look into this.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 9:03:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2005 9:17:45 PM EDT by _DR]
As promised:


I did this little test tonight on some stainless steel scissors, the best stainless I could find since I don't have my DCM rifle anymore, sadly. I traded it and a S&W model 908 for a preban carbine back during the AW ban.

I dipped the scissors in for 2 minutes, dried them off, then dipped two more minutes. The longer you leave it in, the darker it gets. I recommend 3 minutes at least 3 times. When you first dry it off the metal has a matte black residue on it which wipes off with a cloth or 0000 steel wool, leaving a nice satiny black or dark gray finish, depending how long you leave it in. It acts a lot like carbon steel bluing, but it works on stainless steel, unlike conventional bluing. Oh and it doesn't work on non-stainless steel, I tried. Strictly for Stainless Steel (although seems to blacken chrome too).

Oil it down very well right after you get it the way you want it and wipe off all the matte residue, to seal it. Bluing/blackening is a chemical reaction with the surface of the metal, which you want to stop as soon as desired result is achieved. You can scratch the surface of the SS just like before the blackening, but the blackening won't come off, the scratch will still be black. It was quite a tough finish on my DCM barrel (once you go black there is NO going back) so be sure it's what you want if you do this. It won't come off.

I ordered it from Caswell Plating, they were very nice to deal with over the phone. They can answer any further questions you might have about this blackener better than me.

I just wanted a black barrel, but i could never "paint" my rifles (sorry Stickman ) and this fit the bill without ovens, boiling chemicals or such. dipping is the best with this product if you want an even finish, and I did it undiluted, so you want a container that will maximize what fluid you have.

All I can say is it worked well for me, I can't guarantee anything for you, so you might order a little and try it on some small stuff first to see if it is what you want. Works great on stainless handgun grip screws, those pesky bright stainless buttplate screws, etc. Oh and this bottle is 3 years old, and still worked great tonight.

The pics are self explanatory:





















Link Posted: 7/13/2005 9:19:12 PM EDT
Its all smoke and mirors, I have those scissors downstairs right now....


There is nothing wrong with not using Norrells, DC, Krylon, or the left over latex paint that you did your house with. There are enough variations and possibilities to make anyone happy. Brownells has taken more than its fair share from me, and thankfully most of their chemicals go a loooong way.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 10:14:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 3:39:23 AM EDT
_DR

Thanks for the very informative post!

One question - How did you apply this to your barrel? I wouldn't think dunking it would be a good option unless you could find a way to get a water tight seal on the bore and I really wouldn't want to coat the barrel ext. either? Curious how you handled it?

Thanks
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 3:54:27 AM EDT
I'd highly recommend the Caswells' stuff, simply because of experience with Caswells before (some aluminum anodizing stuff)

VERY good people to work with, and they didn't mind the "I want to do BLAH what do I need to get the results I'm looking for" type questions when I talked to them a couple years ago.

Caswells entire business is plating and coatings. Thats all they do, and they're good at it.

And no, I don't work for them....although i wouldn't mind doing so.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 3:55:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cgv69:
_DR

Thanks for the very informative post!

One question - How did you apply this to your barrel? I wouldn't think dunking it would be a good option unless you could find a way to get a water tight seal on the bore and I really wouldn't want to coat the barrel ext. either? Curious how you handled it?

Thanks



I used a blob of hot-glue to seal a barrel I did. YMMV of course
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 4:37:40 AM EDT
Good info and good demonstration.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 4:44:43 AM EDT
I would think that if you used a piece of PVC pipe that was only slightly larger ID than your barrel OD you could seal the muzzle, put very little of the chemical into the pipe, and dunk the barrel into the pipe up to the point (possibly the extension) that you wanted it to stop. I would probably stick a toothpick or something in the gas port as well. Put the pipe in a tub of somesort to catch the overflow.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 6:45:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2005 6:51:34 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By cgv69:
_DR

Thanks for the very informative post!

One question - How did you apply this to your barrel? I wouldn't think dunking it would be a good option unless you could find a way to get a water tight seal on the bore and I really wouldn't want to coat the barrel ext. either? Curious how you handled it?

Thanks



cgv96, filled about 3 inches of the muzzle end of the bore with bathtub silicone sealant, leveling it off around the crown of the muzzle so it would in no way affect ballistics. (you must degrease thoroughly or the silicone sealant will not adhere). I let it dry overnight to let it get good and rubbery. Worked wellfor me, and was easy to get the silicone plug out with a wooden dowel down the bore, any left over silicone residue quickly blown out in the first couple of shots. You could also use a brass brush though.

FanoftheBlackRifle's hot glue method sounds good too. might be easier to clean up once cold.


I only blackened the barrel up to the FSB, as I only bought a quart of the stuff (re-usable by the way) and wasn't worried about what was under the handguards, it was just my CMP gun and I didn't like the bright exposed muzzle. I really don't know what it would do to regular steel, I had some on parked steel but washed it off and oiled it right away. To blacken the entire barrel would take a lot to dip, or if you painted it on with a rag, you would have to coat it a lot to get it even. Might be worth it if your handguards or FF tube expose bright barrel surface. You could try painting it on to see if you get an even result, that would allow you to do the part of the barrel up by the barrel extension.

Link Posted: 7/14/2005 6:48:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
I would think that if you used a piece of PVC pipe that was only slightly larger ID than your barrel OD you could seal the muzzle, put very little of the chemical into the pipe, and dunk the barrel into the pipe up to the point (possibly the extension) that you wanted it to stop. I would probably stick a toothpick or something in the gas port as well. Put the pipe in a tub of somesort to catch the overflow.



Toothpick probably would not seal - I'd use silicone or a tiny rubber plug. The hot glue would probably work too, plus would melt out any residue when shooting.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 7:01:01 AM EDT
As long as you are doing multiple coats anyway, I would think you should have decent results brushing it on. The key is obviously to keep it wet.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 7:05:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
To blacken the entire barrel would take a lot to dip, or if you painted it on with a rag, you would have to coat it a lot to get it even. Might be worth it if your handguards or FF tube expose bright barrel surface. You could try painting it on to see if you get an even result, that would allow you to do the part of the barrel up by the barrel extension.



If you use my PVC pipe method above it would require very little of the material. 1-1/4" PVC has an ID of 1.36", while 1" PVC has an ID of 1.03". If you were using a 20" long by 1" dia. bull barrel and put it in the 1-1/4" pipe, you would have:

C=pi x d or
C of barrel = 3.14 x 1" = 3.14"
C of pipe ID = 3.14 x 1.36" = 4.27"
Average C = (3.14 + 4.27) / 2 = 3.71"

The gap between the OD of the barrel and ID of the pipe = 1.36" - 1" = .36"

The total void between barrel and pipe = .36" x 3.71" x 20" = 26.71 cubic inches

That comes to just about 15 oz., and it looks like 16 oz. is a standard size.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 7:08:58 AM EDT
Thanks _Dr and every body else.

I am planning either some form of a recce\recon build that will be using a SS barrel. I hate the look\idea of a shiny barrel on my AR so this info will come in real handy.

The silicone or hot glue ideas both seem like winners. in_burrito’s idea were both excellent (the PVC tube and the toothpick in the gas port)!!!

I will definitely have to file this info. Thank again
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 7:16:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
As long as you are doing multiple coats anyway, I would think you should have decent results brushing it on. The key is obviously to keep it wet.



I think that would work.

I'll try blackening all our stainless dinnerware and see if my wife freaks

"tactical" dinnerware
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 8:07:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cgv69:
recce\recon build that will be using a SS barrel.
in_burrito’s idea were both excellent (the PVC tube and the toothpick in the gas port)!!!


The 16" or 18" barrel would require even less material, but since those barrels are stepped you'd have a bigger void and it may even out.

If you apply the formulas I used above and get actual measurements of the barrel you're going to use you can figure out how much material you'll need, and you may even be able to get away with 1" pipe. Just don't forget to buy a cap for the end!
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 8:36:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2005 8:36:43 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By in_burrito:

Originally Posted By cgv69:
recce\recon build that will be using a SS barrel.
in_burrito’s idea were both excellent (the PVC tube and the toothpick in the gas port)!!!


The 16" or 18" barrel would require even less material, but since those barrels are stepped you'd have a bigger void and it may even out.

If you apply the formulas I used above and get actual measurements of the barrel you're going to use you can figure out how much material you'll need, and you may even be able to get away with 1" pipe. Just don't forget to buy a cap for the end!



You are an engineer aren't you
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 8:39:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:

Originally Posted By cgv69:
recce\recon build that will be using a SS barrel.
in_burrito’s idea were both excellent (the PVC tube and the toothpick in the gas port)!!!


The 16" or 18" barrel would require even less material, but since those barrels are stepped you'd have a bigger void and it may even out.

If you apply the formulas I used above and get actual measurements of the barrel you're going to use you can figure out how much material you'll need, and you may even be able to get away with 1" pipe. Just don't forget to buy a cap for the end!



...................................it can be done in a PVC pipe with a cap.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 9:00:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By in_burrito:

Originally Posted By cgv69:
recce\recon build that will be using a SS barrel.
in_burrito’s idea were both excellent (the PVC tube and the toothpick in the gas port)!!!


The 16" or 18" barrel would require even less material, but since those barrels are stepped you'd have a bigger void and it may even out.

If you apply the formulas I used above and get actual measurements of the barrel you're going to use you can figure out how much material you'll need, and you may even be able to get away with 1" pipe. Just don't forget to buy a cap for the end!



You are an engineer aren't you



Project Manager for a GC actually. Which means I'm used to having to restate the obvious, in great detail, because the subcontractors that work for me are idiots.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 9:52:42 AM EDT
I need to bump this, so that I can find it soon.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:31:51 AM EDT
I finally found this thread again. I decided to try out the Caswells after the demonstration by _DR (THANKS!). I used the PVC Pipe and I like the results.





Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:36:12 AM EDT
I just ordered some and will post results when it comes in.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:03:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
I ordered a special Stainless steel blueing from a chemical company when I want the blacken my Stainless DCM barrel. Works like a charm. Can show pics post info if anyone cares. Don't have the rifle anymore, but can blacken piece of SS and take a pic.



I want to see it can you make a post for it?
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:09:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I just ordered some and will post results when it comes in.



.......and please put it back in the cool section (aka builder section).
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:29:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brushdog:
I finally found this thread again. I decided to try out the Caswells after the demonstration by _DR (THANKS!). I used the PVC Pipe and I like the results.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/Tomtx/SS_barrel.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/Tomtx/SS_blackener2.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/Tomtx/SS_blackener.jpg



Looks great!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:40:19 AM EDT

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