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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/15/2010 4:10:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2010 2:23:40 PM EST by SpecOps-13]
I went to the range with My Sierra Upper. It's on a CMMG Lower with just an A2 Stock.
It has a standard DPMS Lower Parts Kit installed and the trigger has the set screw mod.
I have an inexpensive 4x scope on it for the testing. This is to keep things just as inexpensive
as this rifle was intended to be. I took different ammo this trip but started with the standard
"Federal Bulk" to warm up.

The range was normal for the summer, like a Sauna. I didn't measure the temperature but I'd
guess it was over 100 Degrees F.

I had a lot of FTF's with the Federal Bulk, All ammo related, bad lot. I hit one round so many
times in different places it looked like it was cut with Crinkle Scissors. No Bang. The groups
were nothing to write home about as can be seen in the upper left of the picture. They
were bigger than a quarter.

I moved on to Federal Lightning and things got better. Top center on the picture. The group
size basically stayed the same for the rest of the ammo, Eley Match, Wolf Match Target and
Fiocchi Super Match. All could be pretty well covered by the dime.

As long as I was using good ammo, the rifle was flawless.


Link Posted: 8/15/2010 5:43:28 PM EST
Spec, 25 or 50yd?
Link Posted: 8/15/2010 5:56:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/15/2010 5:57:11 PM EST by shadowcop]
Pretty sure Spec is shooting at 25 yards.
Not bad Spec. I'm taking the CMMG M4LE to the range tomorrow.
I'll post results.
Link Posted: 8/16/2010 3:53:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2010 3:54:56 AM EST by SpecOps-13]
Oops, it was 25 Yards. Those would be great targets at 50.

Link Posted: 8/16/2010 1:37:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2010 3:17:50 PM EST by shadowcop]
I got to the range today with the CMMG M4 LE .22.
I can honestly say I'm impressed.
700 rounds, not one malfunction with the exception of Remington Subs. They just will not feed.
Keep in mind, this is with a new stock G.I. trigger.
Ammo was:
Federal 550 Bulk 36 gr. HP
Federal Champion 40 gr.
CCI Mini Mag HP
CCI Stinger
Winchester 555 Bulk 36 gr. HP
Kind of windy, 90 degrees, low humidity
Range was 25 yards
UTG 1-4 X scope

Link Posted: 8/16/2010 3:47:39 PM EST
Rifle looks GREAT. The scope fits right in. Wish I had a nice quiet, small range like that.
Even when I go to Dade City, 55 miles away it's first come first serve,, packed.

Groups are consistent with what I'm getting, sept you opt for 10 round instead of 5. So,
I suspect you're shooting better than I am.

Last picture, Nice Splat.

Link Posted: 8/16/2010 4:15:01 PM EST
That was a butterfly. It was shooting so well I couldn't resist.
I'm going to drop a 2 stage trigger in it. We will see if the groups will tighten up more.

I had one of those stupid moments at the range.
Guy shows up in a camo boonie cap and a C.I.A. polo shirt on[>://
A couple younger guys come over with a 10/22 they have questions about. Mr. C.I.A. pulls out his wallet. Here we go. He starts telling these guys about all his "C.I.A. ops.
So I was already annoyed. Finally the guys leave. He starts talking to me. Starts trying to tell me his Ops stories. I've heard all this crap before.
I handled it well though. I gently told him about all the guys I've met in my adventures who claimed to be SEALS, SF, Recon ect...and I felt it was a dis service to the guys that actually did the job, like my old partner and best friend.
Suddenly, someone gave him the shirt and he actually worked as a jailer, but of course also worked for the State Department.
So I was ready to leave, reached down to pick my rifle up and found the scope was loose! Stupid! I didn't check it. So a lot of groups I shot were with the scope loose in the rings.
But the ones I posted were a good representation of how the ammo shot. Just wish I would have done it earlier than after 600 rounds.By then I was ready to go.
Link Posted: 8/16/2010 4:48:47 PM EST
Lets see some other groups from CMMG .22 shooters!
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 5:11:04 PM EST
Just to add, I ran my 16" 5.56 upper on the CMMG lower today. Everything checked out just fine.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 5:53:33 AM EST
I think we're having all the fun shadowcop. Hopefully some of these uppers will be going to the range with
other ARFCOM Members soon. Then we'll have a flurry of range reports to add.

Link Posted: 8/19/2010 6:20:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2010 6:26:49 AM EST by shadowcop]
John said the uppers are going out as fast as they build them. With the value and quality that they are, it doesn't suprise me.
I'm looking forward to seeing some groups from other members too.
The two stage combat trigger is sweet. 4.5lb. clean break. It feels like a shorter two stage than the RRA. Being a Combat trigger, it has a needed heavier pull than a match trigger.
I believe they will offer two versions. The Combat 2 stage with 4.5lb. pull (available now) and a 2 stage Match trigger with 3lb. pull. The brass bushings are a nice touch.

I've got to find some more Winchester 555. It's all gone here. Fortunately the rifle shoots Fed Bulk just fine. Even with the inconsistant loads.
I'm not sure whart CMMG does to these that makes them run so well, but I'm glad they figured it out. Nothing more frustrating than going to the range and having to work on the rifle to get it running. Cut this spring, polish this, trim that, change this, ect...
My CMMG conversion and dedicated CMMG M4 LE .22 has run absotutely great.
I like plug and play.
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 1:43:14 PM EST
CMMG sent a fully upgraded stainless bolt. It has all the final options including the
cotter pin. I'll be shooting it tomorrow if the world doesn't end before then. I'll try to
take some 555. We'll see how that works out.

Link Posted: 8/21/2010 1:56:30 PM EST
No doubt, the 555 will run great. I'm looking forward to the results.
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 5:07:36 PM EST
Guys, the Winchester ammo your talking about, does it only go under the name of 555? I see it as only 525. Is there a difference? Thanks
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 5:15:09 PM EST
The 555 and 333 is sold at WalMart. It's a copper wash hollow point. 36 gr. I don't know if it's the same as the 525.
It's Winchesters version of the Fed 550 bulk pack, also sold at WalMart. Except it's very consistant.
Link Posted: 8/21/2010 8:31:11 PM EST
It is a 36 grain copper plated hp. I am getting it from Cabelas. When all the rage was Fed big box, I loaded up on those. My son and I could hear different sounds, i.e., pop vrs the poof. But they still worked well enough to have a great time. Thanks
Just ordered my second major component from Bravo Co. They are selling blem flattops for 69.00. Thought that was a good deal.
Link Posted: 8/22/2010 5:31:23 AM EST
It's probably the same round. If it's consistant and copper washed, it would be good to go for me.
Link Posted: 8/22/2010 2:08:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2010 2:15:35 PM EST by SpecOps-13]
Well, the Winchester wasn't anything to get excited over. It actually grouped about like the Federal Bulk.
The best / worst groups and the lane / 250 round target I was shooting are shown in the picture below. I
rest the rifle on the towel to shoot.

I was really hoping to do better with the Wunchester ammo.

This rifle actually groups pretty well with a better grade of ammo... Bulk for plinking....

Link Posted: 8/22/2010 2:37:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2010 2:42:24 PM EST by shadowcop]
I'll let you know what mine does with the CMMG 2 stage trigger I just installed.
I found some Winchester 555 and 333 over in Kentucky.
I'll check around tomorrow and see if I can find some match ammo.
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 2:27:44 PM EST
Went to the range.
The CMMG 2 stage is nice. It has a heavier pull than n RRA 2 stage but the CMMG is more of a Combat 2 stage. 4.5lb. pull.
I shot Winchester 333 and Eley EPS Match.
I shot some groups about 1-1.5" at 50 yards. It was very windy. I was also having some scope issues so I'm not posting any pics yet.
Aggrevating day at the range.
Good news is, I shot another 483 rounds with not one failure. I'm at about 1650 rounds now with no failures other than the Remington Subs. Accuracy has been very good for a blaster barrel.
This rifle really likes the Winchester 333 and 555 bulk. Good news for me!
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 4:21:08 PM EST
The trigger I'm using is a standard DPMS Single Stage that I did the set screw mod to.
I've used so many heavy triggers that my carry weapons are set to 8 lbs so I don't shoot
myself in the leg getting one out. Don't know how I'd do with a real trigger job. Your
1-1.5" at 50 yards sounds pretty good, wind especially. I've had more failures than you
but I always warm up with Federal Bulk....
Link Posted: 8/24/2010 5:42:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2010 5:44:16 PM EST by shadowcop]
What kind of failures have you had? I didn't even think about it until the drive home. Not one failure. It makes shooting so much more enjoyable.
You also have one of the very early set ups too. So far this .22 has been as reliable as any of my AR's.

I'll be back there in a couple days.
Another problem I've been fighting is trying to shoot the rifle off the bench with a high cap mag. It just makes keeping the same cheek weld hard for me.
I ordered a 15 round mag today. That will be one less struggle.
Link Posted: 8/26/2010 9:37:18 AM EST
I reached 2000 rounds today without a single malfunction.
Shot some Eley XSP with very good results. 5 rounds touching.
Winchester 333 still shooting dime sized groups at 25
Fed Bulk is just aggrevating. Nice 5 shot group then 2" off. Bang, bang, pop, bang, pop Never get anything consistant with it.
I still couldn't get on the 50 yard range.
Maybe Monday.
Link Posted: 8/26/2010 12:00:51 PM EST
Basically, I have 2000 plus or minus a few rounds through the upper.
99.9% of the failures have been ammo related and possibly the couple
( The 0.1% ) that got caught in the upper were too (Weak Loads).

I've been experimenting with a lot of variables and prototype stuff. Different
mag springs, followers, forward assists. I'm not really doing any troubleshooting
because CMMG is mirroring what I'm doing here. I've been getting new parts
every few days.

CMMG just wants to confirm that I get the same results they do. They're
trying to ensure that the customers will be 100% Satisfied / Thrilled with
what they receive. I believe the verification process of all the peripheral
Evolution Parts is nearing completion. Everything I received seemed to
work fine. So much so that I think they played a joke on me with a
miss matched bolt and rail so I'd complain about something. Maybe they
thought I could do something magical and it would work for me.

I haven't had a lot to complain about. Hardest thing so far was getting the
BHO Mag Spring worked to a point it would accept the full round count...
Personally I think I would load 15 to 20 rounds and call it good. Even with
the spring set, loading 21-25 is hard on the hands. The spring has to be
tough to work the standard AR-15 Bolt Latch.

Link Posted: 8/26/2010 1:01:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2010 4:03:34 PM EST
Spec, I would expect some failures with what you are experimenting with. I'm not running the mods you are. But that is what I like about CMMG. They won't release the stuff until they know it's right.
I think I'm going to have to clean the rifle. I want to be sure the accuracy problems are ammo related and not due to the crown being carbon up or crud in the bcg.
At the same time, when the shots were making quarter sized groups with Fed Bulk and then going to 2" at 25 yards, I ran the Eley and had the best group I ever shot with it. Group was under 1/2" at 25 yards.
I'm also wondering if the different scope was throwing me off some. It's a 3-10 power scope. Parallax is probably set to 100 yards. So it would be easy for shots to be off at 25.
I'll keep working at it.
I have a 8-25 scope with an adjustable objective I may use. I just hate pulling it off my target .223.
This has truly been the most reliable .22 rifle I've ever shot.
Link Posted: 8/26/2010 4:40:31 PM EST
I've got a new style conversion unit to try out. This is going to be very interesting.
I have accuracy data on the rifle I want to use. This is the smoothest conversion
bolt assembly I've seen. It's stainless steel but there's some brass and space age
plastic parts too. The latter is in non critical to function areas, of Course.

Link Posted: 8/26/2010 5:10:29 PM EST
I've got one coming tomorrow. We will compare results.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 9:50:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 11:23:14 AM EST by marmilia]
Here is a short range report on my CMMG M4 LE upper.

I put the upper on a SI Defense lower that has a 6 position M4 stock and a CMMG lpk with a Spikes Battle trigger set in it.

I opted for the standard finish on the upper which seems real durable but I did upgrade to the stainless steel bolt, the upper has a F marked FSB and a Magpul MBUS rear sight and it was shooting about 4" to 5" low out of the box which I adjusted the front sight to fix and the windage was real close so I haven't adjusted the MBUS at at all.

At this time I have only used the Winchester 555 bulk ammo and the round count on the upper is now at aprox. 675 rounds and I have had two malfunctions. The first was a ammo failure (dud) and the second was a FTF which was my fault when I lost count and overloaded the mag. This thing runs great!!!!

Accuracy has been really good in my opinion since I am pushing 50 years old shooting with open sights and my eye sight even with glasses aint what it used to be.

The following targets are the two best out of four I shot today, 5 shot groups @ 25 yards and it was kind of windy. The other two were good also but had a flier or two

This one only looks like 4 shots but I know I shot 5.

Pic of rifle

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 12:30:00 PM EST
That's very close to what we're seeing, Winchester 555 hasn't been the most accurate
ammo in my Sierra Upper. You shoot well for being one of us FOG's Try some different
ammo and you may stumble across what yours prefers. You will be amazed at the groups
you'll shoot then. They'll be smaller than that dime. Fed Bulk, Winchester 333, 555 are
great for killing Coke Cans but aren't the most accurate...CCI Standard Velocity might
work well in these.??????


Link Posted: 9/3/2010 2:40:00 PM EST
Mine likes the Winchester. Mini mags work well too. I di need to get some CCI Standards if I can find them.
The groups with Eley Match were great. Too expensive for my taste.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 3:01:03 PM EST
I guess I got a peach of a CMMG .22lr convo kit - I've ran two bricks of 'terrible' Federal 39gr, and only had one failure (ammo related still).

Glad to see that these are running well.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 3:53:45 PM EST
I've got about 4000 rounds of Fed Bulk left. It runs real well, just not accurate and very inconsistant. If the rifle feeds the crappy Fed bulk, I know it will feed good ammo.
You would think Federal would have figured out by now that their Bulk packs set on the shelf while Winchester is always out.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:26:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By SpecOps-13:
That's very close to what we're seeing, Winchester 555 hasn't been the most accurate
ammo in my Sierra Upper. You shoot well for being one of us FOG's Try some different
ammo and you may stumble across what yours prefers. You will be amazed at the groups
you'll shoot then. They'll be smaller than that dime. Fed Bulk, Winchester 333, 555 are
great for killing Coke Cans but aren't the most accurate...CCI Standard Velocity might
work well in these.??????


I picked up some mini mags I am going to try and if I can find some standard velocity CCI I am going to try some too. I have just been shooting the 555's because Wallyworld had a lot of them and they run great.

BTW Last time I was at the range I had a guy come up to me and asked what the hell kind of rifle I was shooting because he had a Colt .22lr AR and he couldn't shoot more then 6 or 8 rounds through it without it jamming and I was shooting mag after mag through mine without any problems at all
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:49:21 PM EST
I know I keep repeating myself but the CMMG has been the most reliable semi auto .22 I've ever shot.
If you want to see what it will do, get some Eley Match. If I had better glas, I velieve I could come close to putting them in one hole.
I was using a Mueller Sport Dot that has a 1 mil dot. All tounds were touching.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:52:00 PM EST
Even though my Sierra doesn't prefer Winchester's 333's / 555's, it's still lethal enough to kill
100% of the Coke Cans at 25 yards...The Sierra Upper is just as shadowcop mentioned. Reliable
and the accuracy is really pretty good with the better target ammo. Very comparable to other companies
entry level uppers. It's more than adequate for all but matches where accuracy is everything. That being
said, CMMG will eventually offer a high end barrel for the Evolution System, just another way to cover
all the bases.

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