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Posted: 2/16/2015 9:23:21 PM EDT
If this topic doesn't belong on this subforum please move to the correct subforum.



I purchased the CMMG MK47 Mutant T model a week or so ago and took it to the range yesterday.

My initial impression upon inspection of the rifle out of the box was that I was really impressed.  Really
good fit and finish (which I understand is typical of CMMG factory builds). I took the BCG out of the upper
and lubed it and the upper really well prior to my range visit.

The only other changes that I made to the rifle prior to the range visit was to purchase / install the CMMG
30 caliber muzzle brake that is found on the AKM models of this rifle and to install an aftermarket Rock
River 2 stage trigger in lieu of the milspec CMMG one.  I also installed a quick detachable Primary Arms micro
dot as my optic.  No backup sights were installed at this time.

I get to the range and proceed to load the four different Hungarian 20 round tanker mags that I always use
with my other AK variants and my Sig 556R rifles.  These magazines function reliably 99.9% of the time I would
estimate. The ammo that I planned to use was a mix of Tula steel case hollow point and MFS steel case soft point.
This ammo also typically is nearly 100% reliable in my other AK rifles and variants.  

The magazine fit on the four tanker mags was tight but seemed okay.  

The first round seemed to fire correctly but the spent casing stove-piped between the upper and the bolt. I pulled the
charging handle back and removed the spent casing and chambered another round.  Two or three more rounds then
another malfunction.  This time it was a failure to feed. At this point I thought it may be the magazine.  I switched magazines
and several more malfunctions amongst other fired rounds happened.  I switched between both types of ammo and still
more malfunctions.

I estimate that out of the 100 rounds that I fired, 1/3 of those had malfunctions.  Amongst the malfunctions were failures to feed,
failure to extract, extracted case stuck in the bolt face, and the bolt completely missing the next round in the magazine.
The bolt was damaging the unfed rounds in the magazines when it completely missed.  There were a handful of failures to extract
but most malfunctions were feeding related. I have posted a pic below of what most of the malfunctions looked like.

I typically take 400 to 500 rounds to the range to use every shooting session but after about 2 hours of malfunctions and breaking
the rifle down 3 or 4 different times I finally just quit and went to the house.

I will say that the groups that I shot when the rifle did fire correctly were impressive.  With just a red dot and cheap ammo, at 50 yards
I had a couple 1" groups with a few rounds clovering in the same hole.  

Before anyone starts flaming me, I did contact CMMG and they are sending me a shipping label and will attempt to find out what the
problem is.  

I did not do this review to poop on CMMG (I believe that they are a reputable company and will stand behind their product) but just
want to see if anyone else has this rifle and has had the same issue that I have had.  I know that Mrgunsngear had gas issues on his
test model when he attempted to do the 1,000 round torture test. With that said, my issues started with the first fired round so I'm not
sure my issue is the same one he experienced.

With that said, let me know if there are any comments or suggestions on what could be the issue.  



Link Posted: 2/16/2015 9:31:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Interesting. In for follow up.
Link Posted: 2/16/2015 9:37:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Possible gas leak?  Mr. Guns Channel did a 1,000 round torture test and after about 300 rounds the rifle started to malfunction.   He did a follow up video and took down the rifle to find that the gas block screws and gas block had come loose causing the issues.
Link Posted: 2/16/2015 11:17:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Did you try any other mags? It may not like the Hungarian mags.
Link Posted: 2/17/2015 12:19:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Did you try any other mags? It may not like the Hungarian mags.
View Quote


I didn't. Only the tanker mags.

The gun is marketed as working reliably using standard AK mags.

Quite honestly, if an "AK" rifle won't function correctly using those type magazines
then I don't want it anyway. Using the term AK loosely there as it's 75% AR.

I hope it's the gas system or something simple to fix.

I am disappointed to say the least with all the positive reviews and I seem to have a lemon
from the get go.
Link Posted: 2/17/2015 8:31:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Interested in outcome. I would have purchased one of these Mutants already if not for M&M releasing their M10X in the near future.
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 1:21:40 AM EDT
[#6]
The Hungarian tanker mags are top quality and well within AKM spec, I agree if this rifle doesn't function properly with Tanker mags something's wrong. I'd be interested to see what this rifle does with other ammo like Golden Tiger, Brown Bear or Red Army Standard.
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 3:10:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The Hungarian tanker mags are top quality and well within AKM spec, I agree if this rifle doesn't function properly with Tanker mags something's wrong. I'd be interested to see what this rifle does with other ammo like Golden Tiger, Brown Bear or Red Army Standard.
View Quote


I've been contacted by a CMMG rep and he has sent me a UPS label for the rifle's return to CMMG. They've also
requested that I send one of my tanker magazines along with the rifle for them to test with the rifle. I'm actually
going to send two of them because the rifle was malfunctioning with all 4 magazines. Hopefully they resolve whatever the issue
happens to be.
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 3:19:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I didn't. Only the tanker mags.

The gun is marketed as working reliably using standard AK mags.

Quite honestly, if an "AK" rifle won't function correctly using those type magazines
then I don't want it anyway. Using the term AK loosely there as it's 75% AR.

I hope it's the gas system or something simple to fix.

I am disappointed to say the least with all the positive reviews and I seem to have a lemon
from the get go.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Did you try any other mags? It may not like the Hungarian mags.


I didn't. Only the tanker mags.

The gun is marketed as working reliably using standard AK mags.

Quite honestly, if an "AK" rifle won't function correctly using those type magazines
then I don't want it anyway. Using the term AK loosely there as it's 75% AR.

I hope it's the gas system or something simple to fix.

I am disappointed to say the least with all the positive reviews and I seem to have a lemon
from the get go.


I agree, OP.

You are beta testing a rifle system.

Consider yourself A-Number One Up Front, First Guy in the Line, sorta for the Troop Trials.

Seriously the rifle in an unproven system and may someday turn in good performance but they gotta figure out the bugs somehow and you are that "somehow".

Thanks for posting and it will indeed be interesting to see how the whole thing shakes down..
Link Posted: 2/20/2015 11:20:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Tag for update
Link Posted: 2/23/2015 10:24:04 AM EDT
[#10]
Sent back to CMMG this past Friday.

Will update once I get it back.
Link Posted: 2/23/2015 10:37:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Looks like a short stroke in your picture.  I hope they get the issues fixed.
Link Posted: 2/23/2015 7:23:37 PM EDT
[#12]
That's sucks bud. Hopefully the issue is a simple fix as I've been wanting one of these since they were announced! I Subscribed to this thread and look forward to hearing about their findings.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 10:45:38 AM EDT
[#13]
Took a 2 Day Carbine II class this past weekend on a whim.


Decided Friday Night I wanted to go.


Grabbed a MK47 Off The rack and took it out to see how it would perform.


This is the pile of mags that wouldn't work with it on just Day 1.








Expect a full No-BS write up soon.

Working with CMMG who say this is "Not a Common Problem"




Here is a vid of some of the malfs.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="l28cvwhEyuE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>





CXS

 
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 12:31:47 PM EDT
[#14]
99% I bet CMMG will say it is a magazine issue and not with their rifle.
Link Posted: 3/7/2015 2:12:47 PM EDT
[#15]
tag.

I wouldn't have sent them the mags if the mags work well in a standard AK.
Link Posted: 3/8/2015 11:03:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Did op hear back from cmmg yet?
Link Posted: 3/9/2015 6:39:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Weeeell this thread made my decision much easier. Instead of buying an MK47 I bought a Tavor and have absolutely NO buyer's remorse for doing so. OP, I really hope CMMG get's your rifle's issues ironed out. *Custom-X, I would have been VERY tempted to switch straight to my pistol on the first malfunction. Really sucks to see you had those issues!
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 1:52:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Quick update..........I heard back from CMMG regarding my rifle.

They were able to replicate the malfunctions in my rifle using the Hungarian
20 round tanker mags that I sent them. They then proceeded to use the same mags
in a test AK47 rifle that they have on hand and I was told via email "we used your mags
in an AK47 and they worked flawlessly".

They stated that they're not sure where to go from here and suggested that maybe modifications
were needed (rifle & mags?) to make the gun function properly. I told them that was a no go and
that we needed to find an alternate solution........either a gun that functioned properly with the magazines
without any modifications to mags or rifle........or a refund / voucher to purchase another one of their
rifles (not the Mutant).

They said they would check with the powers that be and get back to me.
This was Thursday, March 12.

Needless to say I'm disappointed that the Mutant will not function properly with tanker mags but I do
believe they will make everything right, either by replacement rifle or voucher to purchase another one
of their variants.

We shall see.
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 8:27:29 AM EDT
[#19]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Took a 2 Day Carbine II class this past weekend on a whim.

Decided Friday Night I wanted to go.

Grabbed a MK47 Off The rack and took it out to see how it would perform.

This is the pile of mags that wouldn't work with it on just Day 1.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/topher63/Texas/20150228_163900.jpg



Expect a full No-BS write up soon.

Working with CMMG who say this is "Not a Common Problem"



Here is a vid of some of the malfs.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="l28cvwhEyuE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



CXS  
View Quote




 


Link Posted: 3/14/2015 9:10:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Damn CMMG didn't you test your rifles before throwing them on the market  this is why I don't buy CMMG products
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 12:33:11 PM EDT
[#21]
IT IS AFTER ALL CMMG, about on par with my past experience!!!!!

NCH
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 2:45:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 2:56:18 PM EDT
[#23]
I was really considering this rifle. If I knew shipments per problems I might be in, but this is not good IMO.
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 5:02:45 PM EDT
[#24]
I was entertaining the thought of one of these, but I think if I do pick one up it'll be after the bugs get resolved.

Probably just best to stick with a traditional AR and a traditional AK for now.

I do hope they get the bugs fixed tho.
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 5:13:31 PM EDT
[#25]
CMMG's idea is great, in practice it's pitiful.

So many sources exist for AK-47 magazines any AR-15 designed to work with them would have to include testing with at least ten different makers.

I hope they get the design flaws worked out. The ASC magazine standard AR-15 7.62x39mm system is not much better.
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 6:53:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Tag
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 8:59:57 PM EDT
[#27]
More bang for your buck:
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 9:10:58 PM EDT
[#28]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


More bang for your buck:

http://i.imgur.com/RKuqwSb.png
View Quote




 
Why is there an allen wrench on your stock?
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 9:20:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

  Why is there an allen wrench on your stock?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
More bang for your buck:
http://i.imgur.com/RKuqwSb.png

  Why is there an allen wrench on your stock?


I believe that Allen wrench like object may be an extended magazine release lever.  Never seen anything like that for a Mini before.
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 9:47:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
More bang for your buck:
http://i.imgur.com/RKuqwSb.png
View Quote

How does it run with Wolf/Tula/Brown Bear etc?
Link Posted: 3/14/2015 11:42:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Interesting experience! Several prominent YouTube reviewers gave this rifle rave reviews and claimed to have used many different styles of mags.
Link Posted: 3/20/2015 4:33:24 PM EDT
[#32]
any word from CMMG as of yet?
Link Posted: 3/23/2015 11:10:55 AM EDT
[#33]
So I was informed by CMMG that to make my rifle function properly with the 20 round tanker mags they would have to modify the rifle or the mags for it
to function properly with them.  I told them that wouldn't work because these are the type mags I use and would continue to use while bench resting the rifle at the range.
They did confirm that my tanker mags functioned flawlessly in their test AK47 rifles.  

I also saw where Mrgunsngear did a follow up 1,000 round torture test review this weekend on his repaired rifle and only had 2 malfunctions in 1,000 rounds (a 99.8% reliability rate for those
mathematically challenged). Those two malfunctions were both Tapco mags (imagine that.....).  That is great news......however, he didn't test 20 round tanker mags in his review which I would
have liked to have seen.  

With all that said, CMMG (specifically Justin H. - technical support manager) has stepped up to the plate and been very responsive through this whole ordeal and has offered me
a choice of the following rifles as a complete replacement to my Mutant.  


https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk3-308-win/

https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk4-rce-300-blk-sbn-fde/

https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk4-v2-5-56mm-2/


I have neither an AR10 or a 300 BLK, so those are the two I'm leaning towards.
That 300 BLK with FDE rail and receiver is so friggin purdy.
Decisions, decisions.......

Anyway, just wanted to give an update and a shout out to CMMG for standing behind their products and delivering
excellent customer service.  Hopefully they can update the Mutant with a version 2 and test every AK magazine variant
known to man to make it function with everything. At that point I would purchase another Mutant.

Link Posted: 3/23/2015 11:35:48 AM EDT
[#34]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So I was informed by CMMG that to make my rifle function properly with the 20 round tanker mags they would have to modify the rifle or the mags for it

to function properly with them.  I told them that wouldn't work because these are the type mags I use and would continue to use while bench resting the rifle at the range.

They did confirm that my tanker mags functioned flawlessly in their test AK47 rifles.  



I also saw where Mrgunsngear did a follow up 1,000 round torture test review this weekend on his repaired rifle and only had 2 malfunctions in 1,000 rounds (a 99.8% reliability rate for those

mathematically challenged). Those two malfunctions were both Tapco mags (imagine that.....).  That is great news......however, he didn't test 20 round tanker mags in his review which I would

have liked to have seen.  



With all that said, CMMG (specifically Justin H. - technical support manager) has stepped up to the plate and been very responsive through this whole ordeal and has offered me

a choice of the following rifles as a complete replacement to my Mutant.  





https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk3-308-win/



https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk4-rce-300-blk-sbn-fde/



https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk4-v2-5-56mm-2/





I have neither an AR10 or a 300 BLK, so those are the two I'm leaning towards.

That 300 BLK with FDE rail and receiver is so friggin purdy.

Decisions, decisions.......



Anyway, just wanted to give an update and a shout out to CMMG for standing behind their products and delivering

excellent customer service.  Hopefully they can update the Mutant with a version 2 and test every AK magazine variant

known to man to make it function with everything. At that point I would purchase another Mutant.



View Quote
So you are ditching this rifle strictly because it doesn't operate with 20 rnd tanker mags?  What's the difference between an 20 and 30rd mag that would require the rifle to me modified ?

 
Link Posted: 3/23/2015 11:51:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So you are ditching this rifle strictly because it doesn't operate with 20 rnd tanker mags?  What's the difference between an 20 and 30rd mag that would require the rifle to me modified ?  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
So I was informed by CMMG that to make my rifle function properly with the 20 round tanker mags they would have to modify the rifle or the mags for it
to function properly with them.  I told them that wouldn't work because these are the type mags I use and would continue to use while bench resting the rifle at the range.
They did confirm that my tanker mags functioned flawlessly in their test AK47 rifles.  

I also saw where Mrgunsngear did a follow up 1,000 round torture test review this weekend on his repaired rifle and onlaly had 2 malfunctions in 1,000 rounds (a 99.8% reliability rate for those
mathematically challenged). Those two malfunctions were both Tapco mags (imagine that.....).  That is great news......however, he didn't test 20 round tanker mags in his review which I would
have liked to have seen.  

With all that said, CMMG (specifically Justin H. - technical support manager) has stepped up to the plate and been very responsive through this whole ordeal and has offered me
a choice of the following rifles as a complete replacement to my Mutant.  


https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk3-308-win/

https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk4-rce-300-blk-sbn-fde/

https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/rifle-mk4-v2-5-56mm-2/


I have neither an AR10 or a 300 BLK, so those are the two I'm leaning towards.
That 300 BLK with FDE rail and receiver is so friggin purdy.
Decisions, decisions.......

Anyway, just wanted to give an update and a shout out to CMMG for standing behind their products and delivering
excellent customer service.  Hopefully they can update the Mutant with a version 2 and test every AK magazine variant
known to man to make it function with everything. At that point I would purchase another Mutant.

So you are ditching this rifle strictly because it doesn't operate with 20 rnd tanker mags?  What's the difference between an 20 and 30rd mag that would require the rifle to me modified ?  


That's pretty much what it amounts to at this point. The range that I go to is all bench rest and if you've ever bench rest shot an AK you know how big a pain
in the balls it is to shoot with 30+ round mags due to their length.

As far as what would have to be modified on the rifle or the 20 round mags to make the rifle function properly......I believe it was something to do with the
tanker mag feed lips being too low and the bolt not catching the next round cleanly thus causing malfunction. An email to CMMG customer service would
probably be the best bet and they could more specifically answer that question.
Link Posted: 3/23/2015 7:37:13 PM EDT
[#36]
I have an AK (AMD65) that won't function with 20 round tanker mags.  It works fine with all others.  Just get some 10 rounders for the bench and ditch the 20s.
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 10:51:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Yea but isn't the point of a rifle like the Mutant or Sig 556R or RRA LAR-47 is to work with most if not all AK mags?
Just seems to me that most AKs aren't too finiky about what mags they will run with. Like the OP, my Hungarian Tankers get used the most whether I'm shooting standing or bench. so for me that's a deal breaker on the Mutant.
But thumbs up to CMMG for developing a new product and standing behind their product. Maybe this will be addressed with the next gen.
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 5:57:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yea but isn't the point of a rifle like the Mutant or Sig 556R or RRA LAR-47 is to work with most if not all AK mags?
Just seems to me that most AKs aren't too finiky about what mags they will run with. Like the OP, my Hungarian Tankers get used the most whether I'm shooting standing or bench. so for me that's a deal breaker on the Mutant.
But thumbs up to CMMG for developing a new product and standing behind their product. Maybe this will be addressed with the next gen.
View Quote


I have a Sig 556R (generation 2) that functions flawlessly with all mags, including the 20 round tankers.

And I use my 20 rounders the most because of small size and helps me save ammo versus the 30 rounders. LOL
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