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Posted: 6/21/2016 5:34:04 PM EDT
Just saw CMMG's thread on the 458 SOCOM forum about the ANVIL.

It doesn't use Marty's original 458 SOCOM reamer, but it seems like a cool option that uses the bigger CMMG "Mutant" sized platform with the bigger bolt to allow an extra safety margin over standard 458 SOCOM operating pressures.

CMMG's 458 SOCOM rifles



Note the magwell and how there seem to be room to allow a bigger magazine... I see some possibilities with this new midsized AR platform.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 6:21:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vmpglenn:


Note the magwell and how there seem to be room to allow a bigger magazine... I see some possibilities with this new midsized AR platform.
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I thought Eric showed it was just bracing, and that the actual magwell was AR-15 sized inside?
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 6:31:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By The_Floridian:


I thought Eric showed it was just bracing, and that the actual magwell was AR-15 sized inside?
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Originally Posted By The_Floridian:
Originally Posted By vmpglenn:


Note the magwell and how there seem to be room to allow a bigger magazine... I see some possibilities with this new midsized AR platform.


I thought Eric showed it was just bracing, and that the actual magwell was AR-15 sized inside?


Imagine what *could* be made removing that material. Would certainly be a niche market for the extreme wild cat guys, but could open the doors to new mag styles, calibers, etc blah etc
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 7:06:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 762AR556:


Imagine what *could* be made removing that material. Would certainly be a niche market for the extreme wild cat guys, but could open the doors to new mag styles, calibers, etc blah etc
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Originally Posted By 762AR556:
Originally Posted By The_Floridian:
Originally Posted By vmpglenn:


Note the magwell and how there seem to be room to allow a bigger magazine... I see some possibilities with this new midsized AR platform.


I thought Eric showed it was just bracing, and that the actual magwell was AR-15 sized inside?


Imagine what *could* be made removing that material. Would certainly be a niche market for the extreme wild cat guys, but could open the doors to new mag styles, calibers, etc blah etc


It has that extra material because regular lowers, and entire AR platforms, are being destroyed by the .458 already. Now imagine thinning it out, and going larger.

That may be your pie in the sky dream of an intelligent build, and where I live is a free country and state - so that's fine - but personally I wouldn't want one thinned out for a larger or more destructive round.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 7:50:26 PM EDT
I was thinking of bigger traditional style caliber. Not even bigger thumpers.

Like some WSSM or something crazy like that. Just agreeing with OP about the possibilities of insane wild cats.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 8:12:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By The_Floridian:


It has that extra material because regular lowers, and entire AR platforms, are being destroyed by the .458 already. Now imagine thinning it out, and going larger.

That may be your pie in the sky dream of an intelligent build, and where I live is a free country and state - so that's fine - but personally I wouldn't want one thinned out for a larger or more destructive round.
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Originally Posted By The_Floridian:
Originally Posted By 762AR556:
Originally Posted By The_Floridian:
Originally Posted By vmpglenn:


Note the magwell and how there seem to be room to allow a bigger magazine... I see some possibilities with this new midsized AR platform.


I thought Eric showed it was just bracing, and that the actual magwell was AR-15 sized inside?


Imagine what *could* be made removing that material. Would certainly be a niche market for the extreme wild cat guys, but could open the doors to new mag styles, calibers, etc blah etc


It has that extra material because regular lowers, and entire AR platforms, are being destroyed by the .458 already. Now imagine thinning it out, and going larger.

That may be your pie in the sky dream of an intelligent build, and where I live is a free country and state - so that's fine - but personally I wouldn't want one thinned out for a larger or more destructive round.



I have been shooting a 458 socom for almost ten years and never have heard of a lower being destroyed or entire gun being destroyed . the only issue I have been aware of is non spec reamers and shitty corbon ammo. could you point me to where you got this info?

Link Posted: 6/21/2016 8:28:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2016 8:29:50 PM EDT by Jamesdean12345]
Where do you get your factual evidence that the true marty/teppo jutsu approved 458 SOCOM chambered rifles are being destroyed? I have been shooting the socom for 2 years now and using handloads/factory and never had a single issue with my tromix barrel/bolt. I hope big bore doesn't get wind of that statement
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 11:27:19 PM EDT
CMMG is putting out a whole lot of BS. Sad too because if they were to just bring out the product without a whole lot of BS I would be interested in it, but they have told so many half-truths and even outright lies that I would never touch this product or any of their products ever again. It truly is shameful some of the BS they are saying.
This is being discussed over on the .458 SOCOM Forums. Link and link.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 12:31:01 AM EDT
So is there a list of companies using the correct reamer to at least make barrels?

TJ (obviously; but assume no longer manufacturing)
Tromix
WC (?)
RR (?)
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 2:13:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2016 2:17:47 AM EDT by Jamesdean12345]
the companies with chambers reamed to Marty's true spec chamber are (to my knowledge)


-TROMIX
http://www.tromix.com/

-SBR ammunition(taking over teppo jutsu barrel making)
http://www.sbrammunition.com/458socom_parts.html

-Rock River Arms
http://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=251

-I THINK SSK industries but I do not see it on their website anymore

-most recently Red Creek Tactical
http://458socomforums.com/index.php?topic=3216.msg32875#msg32875

THE FOLLOWING COMPANIES DO NOT

-CMMG for now?

-wilson combat

-KAK ind

-Radical Firearms

and any other you may find, although if you go to http://458socomforums.com/ there may be a thread discussing any quesiton you may have
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:58:34 AM EDT
CMMG answered a question that nobody was asking on this IMO. 458socomforums.com will clarify any questions you have or ask Big-Bore, he's the guru.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 11:19:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2016 11:20:17 AM EDT by Big-Bore]
The APPROVED reamer list in its entirety:

Teppo Justu, Marty ter Weeme, owner, who developed the .458 SOCOM round.
TROMIX, co-originator and the guy who made the AR-15 work with the .458 SOCOM round.
SBR of course, who is now doing Teppo Jutsu's work while Marty is out of the country.
SSK Industries, the first to my knowledge to sign a licensing agreement with Teppo Jutsu. JD Jones likes the big bores, handgun or AR.
Rock River, the first, and ONLY major company to sign a licensing agreement with Teppo Jutsu (Marty ter Weeme)
Red Creek Tactical-uses barrels made by an approved maker.

Everyone else, no matter what they say, are using either their own version of the .458 SOCOM reamer or the PTG reamer, and that includes Wilson Combat, Black Hole Weaponry, and CMMG.
Of those three, only Black Hole was open and up front about using the PTG reamer and did not make excuses or offer a lot of BS up for why they did what they did so Kudos to them for being honest about it. They could do it cheaper and faster by using the PTG reamer, so they did.

Wilson started to enter into an agreement with TJ, then when they found out they could use the PTG reamer, they backed out on their plans to go with the original, even though TJ had already announced the upcoming plans to partner with WC. Makes we wonder if they did that on purpose to get wrong information out there knowing how hard it would be to retract that information, and maybe get some free advertising in the process? But there goes the tin hat talk again. In retrospect, TJ probably should not have announced the partnership until all was finalized.

CMMG gave a bunch of BS about not being able to finalize anything with Marty over a couple of years time. I am certainly nobody special and I have never had too terribly much trouble reaching Marty, so either they did not try very hard or they are lying about that too, just as they did when they told the one guy on the SOCOM forums that the licensing agreement was a myth. I don't think any of the signed producers would like to hear that.
Then, in order to justify their stronger bolt and system, which IMO really needed no justification-stronger is good, period-they implied SOCOM bolts were breaking left and right based on the Rock River problem with Cor-Bon ammo. It was not the bolt's problem, rather the Cor-Bon ammo, that one lot of 300 gr. loads made in 2013 IIRC, were loaded to 50,000+ psi instead of 36000 psi. THAT caused the RR bolts to fail, not at all a problem with the bolts. So, who lied, did Cor-Bon lie to CMMG about the cause of RR bolts failing with that one lot of CB ammo, or is CMMG ignoring well known facts and misrepresenting the situation for personal gain? It is so well known the problem was with the over pressure ammo that I see no reason for CB to mislead or lie to CMMG. If CMMG had not been deceptive about that and just said, "We made a stronger bolt to increase the margin of safety," that would have been fine and dandy; who could argue against that? But to mislead people and implying everyone else's bolts were failing and that the .458 SOCOM is operating on the "ragged edge" of safety is total BS. I'm sure massive bolt failure problems would be news to Rock River, SBR, SSK, TROMIX, and even to Black Hole and Wilson Combat. It's....just....NOT....happening.

I'm all for a stronger AR system that could handle hotter .458 SOCOM rounds (like some of us do in our bolt guns, pushing the .458 S well beyond the 36K limit), or rounds like the WSSMs or wildcats that could be pushed to 55K psi, and the Anvil may well be just the ticket. IMO they could have sold it on those merits alone and they did not need to be deceptive and try to hurt other other businesses by making false and misleading statements. Bring their item to market, mention its virtues of how they use a modified platform that increases the margin of safety and that it can handle higher pressures than the standard AR-15, and then run it up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes. As a wildcatter I would have been very interested in the product. But now? Meh. There was no need to make false statements and misleading implications regarding other's products.

Then there is Radical Firearms, KAK, F-Bomb, and dozens and dozens of smaller gunsmiths throughout the country.

ANYONE can buy a PTG reamer and advertise making .458 SOCOMs even though they might not have the slightest idea on what it takes to make the extractor, modify the bolt, or how to set up the barrel and barrel extension to make them work. Buyer beware.

Some of the bright ideas a few of these fly-by-nights have come up with trying to reinvent the wheel, such as to make a smoother feeding barrel extension, is downright dangerous. Some have eliminated the center bottom lug on the BE and that is a huge NO-NO since it unevenly distributes the forces on the bolt's and BE's lugs. There is no question that it will fail, only when. Wilson Combat did that at first then backed away from it in a hurry, but others continue to completely remove the center lug between the feed ramps, making one huge feed ramp. That lug cannot be totally removed, it can be reduced, but not eliminated. It may look as slick as snot on a door-knob but it is really a BAAAAAD idea.
How do we know it will fail? Because Rock River had a small bad batch of barrel extensions where they were not properly heat treated, so they were not strong enough. The BEs were made but since the center lug was not up to full strength, they broke off after a few dozen shots. Not a lot of these BEs made it out into the wild, but a few did and they failed. Of course RR took care of the problem and fixed customer's barrel, but it does prove that the center lug on the bottom of the BE cannot be removed. If it received no pressure during firing then it would not have broken.
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