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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/20/2003 8:59:05 AM EDT
Really interesting report from Iraq
HTTP://ebird.dtic.mil/jun2003/s200030620194124.html
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:06:27 AM EDT
linky no worky
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:17:43 AM EDT
I bet the story probably says they're getting jams, and as we know, the military uses CLP for lubrication and cleaning... But I bet the guys that are experiencing jams are either using too much CLP, attracting dirt and sand and dust, or they're not using enough. Maybe they're not closing the dust cover? hmmm...
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:43:12 AM EDT
It's basically because the sand has the consistancy of talcum powder and when it mixes with clp it forms a paste that locks everything up. The report then goes on to give recomendations on what to use instead.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:58:36 AM EDT
Sorry didn't know that everyone could not get to .mil sites. What the report states is that, CLP is the problem, the Army has now approved MILITEC-1. It is a much better solution for lubricating individual and crew-served weapons. Another quote from the artical states that the 507th Maintenance Co. squad that was captured had no working weapons due to jams at the time of their capture.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:50:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bogeyshooter: Sorry didn't know that everyone could not get to .mil sites. What the report states is that, CLP is the problem, the Army has now approved MILITEC-1. It is a much better solution for lubricating individual and crew-served weapons. Another quote from the artical states that the 507th Maintenance Co. squad that was captured had no working weapons due to jams at the time of their capture.
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Militec-1, that's what I use! It works great!
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:20:16 AM EDT
Can you copy and paste the article here?
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:22:50 AM EDT
Another vote for Militec.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:41:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bogeyshooter: had no working weapons due to jams at the time of their capture.
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well if they would of kept their guns clean like they where supposed to then they wouldnt of gotten jammed. i blame the operator
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 2:05:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Alex_F: Another vote for Militec.
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Thats great if your in the desert but you better hope your not trusting that stuff in a humid climate where you'll have as much rust in a day as having not used any at all! Good for lube though!
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 2:45:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2003 2:48:38 PM EDT by BigIck]
Militec-1 is offering [red]Free Samples[/red] of Militec-1 lubricant on their [url=http://www.militec-1.com/]web site[/url]. I thought I might try it and see.... The EBIRD is only accessable from .mil domains, or if you give your SSN and are on active duty...
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:21:21 PM EDT
They should try a dry lube like graphite in the desert,any oil will atract the fine sand go dry lube and and some preventive maintenence and all should be fine
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:34:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By model927: They should try a dry lube like graphite in the desert,any oil will atract the fine sand go dry lube and and some preventive maintenence and all should be fine
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Graphite + aluminum = bad news.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 6:12:36 PM EDT
what does it do wear the aluminum down faster?
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 7:52:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2003 8:03:58 PM EDT by EladEflow]
I saw a test and MILTEC-1 performed at the same level as Hoppes as a protector. Has very little rust-inhibiting properties
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:41:11 PM EDT
That report is posted on the Militec-1 web site if anyone wants to read it. Raymond
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:17:54 PM EDT
As much as I love the AR/M-16, my 1st choice for a standard infantry weapon in the desert would be a Galil. I think the M-16 can function well in any climate given a modicum of attention/care, but I'd prefer a wider margin for error.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 12:22:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2003 12:23:43 AM EDT by SULACO2]
The Militec 1 would be an alternative Lube. in arid regions, where sand particles are an issue, and humidity is not. In more humid environments, where sand is not an issue, wet lubes should be used so as to double as an inhibitor. No single weapon for every scenario, no single lube for every scenario.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 3:20:44 AM EDT
To lumpy196 if any of you are members of assault web you know VULCAN is over in iraq and his unit is using graphite in their M4s with no problems there was also an article during the first gulf war of seals using graphite on their M14s if a steel boltcarrier does not wear down a receiver I would not worry about graphite so I would trust the advice of a soldier and his unit over there using it, but I could be wrong where did you get your info that its bad on the upper receiver id like to see the info source,the same with a chrome bolt carrier the military says they are ok in non deployable rifles but les baer uses those type of carriers in his line of $1600 rifles so if anyone has a good reliable proof source that graphite is bad on an M16 or causes wear id like to see it.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:06:59 AM EDT
What about Remington's Dri-lube? It's a teflon based spray lubricant that completely dries after spaying it on and leaves a Teflon film behind.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 8:48:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By model927: To lumpy196 if any of you are members of assault web you know VULCAN is over in iraq and his unit is using graphite in their M4s with no problems there was also an article during the first gulf war of seals using graphite on their M14s if a steel boltcarrier does not wear down a receiver I would not worry about graphite so I would trust the advice of a soldier and his unit over there using it, but I could be wrong where did you get your info that its bad on the upper receiver id like to see the info source,the same with a chrome bolt carrier the military says they are ok in non deployable rifles but les baer uses those type of carriers in his line of $1600 rifles so if anyone has a good reliable proof source that graphite is bad on an M16 or causes wear id like to see it.
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He did'nt say it wouldnt work just bad news to do so. I myself can't say but it may have something to do more with chem. properties involved than strictly steel on aluminum wear.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 8:53:36 AM EDT
I wonder what the Israelis use... Seems like they have to operate in an environment similar to Iraq...
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 9:02:31 AM EDT
Once again. I have to recommend Castrol Synthetic Gun Lube. It meets all NATO requirements and is really the best I have ever seen and used.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 1:26:05 PM EDT
I was taught graphite reacts with aluminium to form aluminium oxide (basically rust). That's why MIL-L-8937 for dry film lubricants specifically specifies no graphite. Of course just because they told you that in the military doesn't mean its true...
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 1:46:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2003 1:53:41 PM EDT by DarkStar]
The main problem is graphite is electrically conductive. Graphite is soft and doesn't provide heavy load lubrication, and creates a form of corrosion which results from vibration and mechanical wear (fretting corrosion). In the presence of chloride ions (marine environment) graphite causes galvanic (bimetallic) corrosion. Do not use lubricants that contain graphite on or near aluminum. Graphite causes rapid corrosion to aluminum when the two are combined in salt water. edited for spelling...
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 2:00:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigIck: What about Remington's Dri-lube? It's a teflon based spray lubricant that completely dries after spaying it on and leaves a Teflon film behind.
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I was thinking the same thing. I use it on my .22s, but I don't know what it will stand up to as far as heat and the abuse it would take in an M16.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 2:20:19 PM EDT
The term is galvanic corrosion. From my understanding (I lay no claim to being a metalurgist), graphite and aluminum are fine in a totally dry environment. However, once graphite on an aluminum surface is exposed to any kind of moisture it will begin to corrode the aluminum. Not a problem if you can insure that you got every last bit of graphite out of your reciever. Why take the chance when there are so many other dry lubes that work well? Ive had nothing but perfect functioning in my ARs in a very dusty environment with Dri-Slide and Sentry Solutions.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:44:11 PM EDT
The best lube for the AR I have ever encountered is Tetra. 25 is good too. The CLP sucks up dirt and sand and does not do a terribly good job of lubrication over longer firing sessions. (When you fire over 300 rounds between cleaning) You need to touch up with CLP to keep the weapon happy or it begins to cycle sluggishly. Moreso when you are rolling around in the sand. If you keep shooting it with CLP it will keep running, but it will suck up that much more crud. Cleaning this mess out of your weapon after that kind of day is just awful. I am not sure what the average number of rounds fired from the average M-16 in a firefight is, but I do know that you don't always have time to break your weapon down and clean it before you encounter more trouble. ESPECIALLY if you are fighting in a quick moving war like GWII. Get as much of a margin of error as you can. None of my BW instructors use CLP unless they have access to nothing else. They much prefer Tetra or 25. Tetra can just go and go. And to top it off the stuff seems to repel dust and other such crud so it does not gum up. I think a good grease lubricant like Tetra grease is best to use, and this is what currently lubes my AR. I have a feeling that lots of soldiers out there lube their gun too much or not enough and don't seem to use the ejection port cover as they should. Some of CLP's shortcommings are operator induced. But better stuff exists for lubrication and those better products should be used. I am always suspicious of any product that claims to do everything you want to do. It may do all things, but rarely does them all very well...
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