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Posted: 8/28/2004 9:19:37 PM EST
Hello all, I have found that the only way my practice AR 15 range rifle will function properly, is with a generous coat of CLP on my bolt carrier. Is this common procedure when using Wolf ammo? I am currently shooting the new poly cased 62Gr. FMJ ammo as my range blasting ammo.

(Although this is cheap blasting ammo, I have found this ammo to be amazingly accurate out to 100 yards. My range AR is a kit gun I assembled from spare parts, with an A1 sight system and a 20" barrel with a 1 in 7 rate of twist. I have found that when shooting off of a bench rest, I can produce 2 1/2 - 4" groups on paper plates all afternoon long. )


Keep your powder dry
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 9:50:39 PM EST
On my Bushy commando upper and A2 20" upper, I use a couple of drops of good old 10W30 on the BC rails and bearing surfaces. I use Wolf, NATO M193, and handloaded ammo.

After 21 years of shooting and having tried every "new and improved" snake oil on the market...I find they perform no better than Wal Mart 10w30, 80 cents a quart!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:28:13 AM EST
While I'm sure a "couple of drops" of Motor oil won't damage your rifle ;

Be advised that Automotive oil has chemical additives. ( may damage finishes )

Motor oil will break down chemically at fairly LOW temperatures ( before it combusts )

ANY "gun oil" is a better choice.

CLP was specifically formulated to clean and lubricate Firearms.


Link Posted: 8/29/2004 6:22:15 AM EST
WOW, another oil debate thread!!

Anyway, I have started to use Castrol Syntech (10-30), and have found that it hangs around a whole lot longer than the CLP and LSA, and my SBR's funtion a whole lot longer with the suppressor attached.

Another benefit is as the oil does not evaporate, the mist of oil also helps keep the WOLF from sticking in the chamber, as before the soot coming back dried out the CLP and ended up with dry-grey inside, and the Wolf would prematurely stick.


IBTL
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:27:27 AM EST
Two factors you have working against you with Wolf and which compound each other is 1) It's a very weak load. and 2) It's very dirty. As the fouling builds up, the resistance in the mechanism builds up. I did some half-assed experiments recently regarding running my ARs dry and dirty and Wolf (and PMP) would eventually have the classic weak-cycling feed ramp failures. Then put a mag of XM193 and no problems.
The lesson I learned is, the cheap shit is great for range fodder, but my SHTF stash is exclusively XM193. I also do the light oil on the bolt carrier rails thing.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:34:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Beerbellybo:


(Although this is cheap blasting ammo, I have found this ammo to be amazingly accurate out to 100 yards. My range AR is a kit gun I assembled from spare parts, with an A1 sight system and a 20" barrel with a 1 in 7 rate of twist. I have found that when shooting off of a bench rest, I can produce 2 1/2 - 4" groups on paper plates all afternoon long. )


Keep your powder dry



I wouldn't term 2.5 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards off a rest as "amazingly accurate" in any rifle. that is just good plinking ammo. "Amazingly accurate" groups would be 1 inch at 100 off a rest with the irons, with wolf. I think i would shit myself if THAT ever happened.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:27:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:58:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By colt100:Colt 100,
I'm not trying to be sarcastic in any way, but if you can shoot 1"- 1 1/2" groups at a 100 yard target with an A1 sight system , I sure would like to be there when you do it. Although I might want to suggest that you partially wipe your ass at this time, because I have indeed shot 1" groups at 50 yards with my parts build AR, while using 62 Gr. FMJ Wolf ammo. ( I rather shoot Wolf and save the good stuff for a rainy day, thats just my opinion. )

Originally Posted By Beerbellybo:


(Although this is cheap blasting ammo, I have found this ammo to be amazingly accurate out to 100 yards. My range AR is a kit gun I assembled from spare parts, with an A1 sight system and a 20" barrel with a 1 in 7 rate of twist. I have found that when shooting off of a bench rest, I can produce 2 1/2 - 4" groups on paper plates all afternoon long. )


Keep your powder dry



I wouldn't term 2.5 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards off a rest as "amazingly accurate" in any rifle. that is just good plinking ammo. "Amazingly accurate" groups would be 1 inch at 100 off a rest with the irons, with wolf. I think i would shit myself if THAT ever happened.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:00:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By colt100:

Originally Posted By Beerbellybo:


(Although this is cheap blasting ammo, I have found this ammo to be amazingly accurate out to 100 yards. My range AR is a kit gun I assembled from spare parts, with an A1 sight system and a 20" barrel with a 1 in 7 rate of twist. I have found that when shooting off of a bench rest, I can produce 2 1/2 - 4" groups on paper plates all afternoon long. )


Keep your powder dry



I wouldn't term 2.5 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards off a rest as "amazingly accurate" in any rifle. that is just good plinking ammo. "Amazingly accurate" groups would be 1 inch at 100 off a rest with the irons, with wolf. I think i would shit myself if THAT ever happened.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:04:27 AM EST
Colt100,
1" groups at a 100 yard target with A1 sights, I sure would like to be there when you do it!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:33:50 AM EST
Wolf ammo and motor oil in an AR15. Am I the only one here having a hard time with this concept?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 1:48:14 PM EST
How about 2-3 inch groups at 200 yards?


Thats what we been getting with 62 grain Wolf out of a 16 inch SS 1:8 barrel and 20 inch SS barrel with the same twist.


Wolf is definetly not a bad ammo for accuracy.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:24:27 PM EST
One thing I can add is the coating of CLP will likely be easier to clean than the wolf crap alone.
another thing is as dirty as the wolf is it may just worsen the effect in the long run to use excessive lube. When I was in the Military and in a training class where we used blanks and MILES gear, The Cadre kept telling us to squirt a bunch of lube in the rifle (M-16 not A1 just M-16) well having been through this before I didn't buy into their BS, and ran my rifle with minimal lube. Always functioned and not so much blank crap built up those who had mass quantities of lube had major problems and during "simulated" firefights were reduced to a bolt action......
Trying to use excess lubricant to cure dirt problems is asking for trouble in the long run.
Using little lube to avoid excess garbage build up on reciprocating parts is best I am not suggesting running the thing totally dry either so no you can't say that. just a thin film of lube on the contact points. When we were in the desert we encountered a fine powdery sand. it got in everything and everywhere, I started using a Dry lube called Krytech for those conditions and my rifle always worked when I needed it. There weren't many dry lubes available at that time, this stuff was for Bicycle chains.... Something that just ocurred to me the stuck case issue might be aleviated by sprinkli9ng some dry graphite in the mags with the ammo.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:24:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:39:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 2:43:02 PM EST by Slv2fun]
I know the motor oil concept is hard to swallow for some...but keep in mind that motor oils were made to lubricate pistons running inside a combustion chamber. Heat? fire? explosion? yep,,,just like in a rifle chamber.

I learned the motor oil trick from my days on the Grenze...I was bored sitting in the border camp so I started to read up on the TM's and FM's..in the Survival FM..it actually suggest you use motor oil.

Of course, I also have CLP, and have gome through many many gallons of CLP, not just on my personal stuff, but on the Main gun, crew served, M240's and Ma Deuces. so I am not excluding CLP, break free, LSA, Kroil, Tatra, or any of the other stuff...But apart from slight viscosity differences, I don't find that much variance in performance.

But in the end, it's your gun, your choice...Just sharing my experience for what it's worth.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:56:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Chuck:
Lets get serious here fellas, if you can shoot 1MOA groups with match ammo you'll get all X-rings at the National Matches.....

With factory ammo? With Wolf? With a short barrel?

-- Chuck



This is with a 5.5 inch Shoot N See at 200 yards with a 16 inch SS barrel and a 20 inch SS barrel same twist.

Both shoots just as well with the Wolf 62 grain as with Black Hill 65 grains.

Those 2 ammos out shot Federal, WInchester, Wolf and PMC 52/55 grains.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:07:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Beerbellybo:
Colt100,
1" groups at a 100 yard target with A1 sights, I sure would like to be there when you do it!



The only way i can get 1 in groups with my A1 upper at 100 yards is to put a scope on my rifle. Otherwise, I can get 2 inches or so if I take my time off the bench. 2 to 3 inches is the norm for my prone shooting. Of course, I have a stock bushy with a chromed lined bore, which has in excess of 10,000 rds through it. Not exactly a match barrel. I was just commenting that I didn;'t feel that 4 to 5 inches at 100 yards was anything to be excited about. I get better groups with my 60 year old garand. 4 to 5 inches is about what my SKS's will do.

2 to 3 inches at 200 is a very respectable group in my opinion.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 2:37:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 2:58:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Chuck:
2 to 3 inch groups will win the National Matches, this is 1 - 1.5 MOA shooting and the 10 ring is 2MOA (X ring is 1MOA).

Since so many folks here shoot these groups with stock rifles and carbines and plain factory ammo I'm astounded the scores at Camp Perry, using match rifles and ammunition, are so low.

-- Chuck



Chuck, You'll find that if you post anything other than a "tackdriving" range report, someone will be
there to kick some sand on your ass. Hell, with iron sights and corected vision, I can't even see good
enough to shoot any better than a 2" group at 100 yards!
Different sights, guns, ammo and shooting habits make for a lot of difference in scores.
Whatever works for you is the best and most important, HAVE FUN.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 9:46:47 AM EST
my experance with wolf laquer ammo is good and bad

no real new info here but

my model 1 m4 barrel loved it my oly ss m4 barrel liked it my bushie M4 barrel HATED IT
jamed every other round cut my thumb wide open trying to remove a stuck shell.



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