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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/9/2005 6:58:11 AM EDT
Inside The Army - www.InsideDefense.com - 8 Aug 2005

Alliant Techsystems will not reach its goal of building 1.5 billion small-caliber rounds for the Army this year, the company’s chief executive officer told Wall Street analysts last week.

Five years ago, when ATK won an Army contract to make small-caliber ammunition, production was set at 350 million rounds per year, Inside the Army reported in April. Since then, the Lake City Army Ammunition plant operated by ATK in Independence, MO, which produces 5.56 mm, 7.62 mm and 50 caliber rounds, has been manufacturing 1.2 billion rounds per year and has been attempting to reach an annual rate of 1.5 billion rounds. “We actually will exceed that 1.2 billion but not by the 300 million,” Daniel Murphy said Aug. 4 during a conference call on his company’s quarterly earnings.

A Government Accountability Office report released late last month found that even if new modernization efforts at Lake City and other ammo plants stretch existing sources to their limit, the increased capacity will be insufficient to meet DOD requirements without help from more sources (DefenseAlert, Aug. 1). Murphy said the Army this month would announce the name of the vendor that will manufacture an additional 300 million rounds of small-caliber ammunition, above and beyond the 1.5 billion rounds ATK has sought to produce.

“We were told yesterday that there will be an announcement on the 18th of August,” Murphy said. “That’s flipped a couple times [in the past], though, but that’s as of yesterday.” Officials at the Army’s Picatinny Arsenal, NJ, were unavailable for comment by press time. Murphy said 95 percent of the small-caliber rounds being manufactured are earmarked for training purposes, with the rest going to troops in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. With U.S. troops -- regardless of whether they are infantry or any other occupational specialty -- under daily attack by insurgents in Iraq, Defense Department officials have mandated that all personnel deployed to Iraq be qualified in the use of small arms, he said.

Strong small-caliber ammo sales were one of the factors that helped propel ATK’s overall sales growth by 17 percent over the same quarter the year before, according to the company’s earnings statement. Ammunition group sales grew by 24 percent at $247 million, compared to $200 million the year before.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 7:17:57 AM EDT
I love ammuntion.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 7:29:06 AM EDT
1.5 billion, how many cases would that be? I wonder if it would fit in my garage?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 7:52:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By phobia:
1.5 billion, how many cases would that be? I wonder if it would fit in my garage?



Somewhere around 400,000 cases.

No, but then you'd have a good reason to build a shed...
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:03:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
I love ammuntion.



thats one thing i will NEVER have enought of!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:15:47 AM EDT
That's about 4,110 cases of 1,000 rounds each EVERY DAY.



Hell - I'd take what they put out in ONE HOUR - 171 cases.

Imagine that - 2.85 cases EVERY MINUTE!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:27:57 AM EDT
wish my Dillon 550B could reload that fast!
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 10:28:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 10:30:16 AM EDT by Will]
I wonder if the supplier will be foreign or domestic? They ordered a huge pile of 5.56 from the Taiwanese and I understand Israeli's are producing stuff for domestic training use. I kinda hope it is someone foreign, that way MAYBE some of the domestics would get some breathing room and be able to start shipping some ammo for civillians. Rumor mill says it may be PMC though.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 11:30:37 AM EDT
1 case of 5.56mm Ball = 1680 rds (2X ammo cans of 840 rds in a wire bound box)

1.5 billion rounds = 892,857 (with some left over) wirebound boxes of M855.

I think you'd need a parking garage.

Mike
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:56:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Will:
I wonder if the supplier will be foreign or domestic? They ordered a huge pile of 5.56 from the Taiwanese and I understand Israeli's are producing stuff for domestic training use. I kinda hope it is someone foreign, that way MAYBE some of the domestics would get some breathing room and be able to start shipping some ammo for civillians. Rumor mill says it may be PMC though.



It will NOT be domestic, because there are no domestic suppliers of true mil-spec small caliber ammo other than LC. Last time we had to do an emergency buy, we got it from IMI (Israel). Some people got bent out of shape over it, but we had to meet requirements.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:08:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
I love ammuntion.


I love ATK stock.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:10:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By catch223:

Originally Posted By phobia:
1.5 billion, how many cases would that be? I wonder if it would fit in my garage?



Somewhere around 400,000 cases.

No, but then you'd have a good reason to build a shed...



Isn't it 1.5 million cases?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:12:47 AM EDT
Some folks won't be getting killed that need to be killed.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:13:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By El_Abogado:

Originally Posted By catch223:

Originally Posted By phobia:
1.5 billion, how many cases would that be? I wonder if it would fit in my garage?



Somewhere around 400,000 cases.

No, but then you'd have a good reason to build a shed...



Isn't it 1.5 million cases?




yes
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:44:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
I love ammuntion.



..and how...!
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:00:41 AM EDT
It sounds to me like we need to just bite the bullet (no pun intended) and open another ammo plant. If LC can't meet the demand now while we're fighting a guerilla war, what's gonna happen if we get into a large drawn out conventional one?

IMHO, having only one ammo plant is a liability. What happens if terrorists were able to sabotage some of the equipment there?

BTW, intuition tells me Winchester will get the contract to deliver the additional 300,000 rounds of M855. They already produce it now for their Ranger line of law enforcement ammo anyway (unless of course IMI is supplying this for Winchester......I haven't used it, so I'm not sure).
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:45:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:54:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
It sounds to me like we need to just bite the bullet (no pun intended) and open another ammo plant. If LC can't meet the demand now while we're fighting a guerilla war, what's gonna happen if we get into a large drawn out conventional one?

IMHO, having only one ammo plant is a liability. What happens if terrorists were able to sabotage some of the equipment there?



Seriously, some piss poor attempt with a car bomb would close it down and we'd be screwed.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:14:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By phobia:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
It sounds to me like we need to just bite the bullet (no pun intended) and open another ammo plant. If LC can't meet the demand now while we're fighting a guerilla war, what's gonna happen if we get into a large drawn out conventional one?

IMHO, having only one ammo plant is a liability. What happens if terrorists were able to sabotage some of the equipment there?



Seriously, some piss poor attempt with a car bomb would close it down and we'd be screwed.



It's an ammo plant all you really need is a match. The old saying about all your eggs in one basket seems to apply.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:04:28 AM EDT
How many plants have they idled? I know of at least one. Where else in the last 20-25 years have we made ammo? I have NO idea what it would take to restart an ammo plant but I am guessing it wouldn't be an easy task.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:45:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 8:45:34 AM EDT by P-245]

Originally Posted By Will:
I wonder if the supplier will be foreign or domestic? They ordered a huge pile of 5.56 from the Taiwanese and I understand Israeli's are producing stuff for domestic training use. I kinda hope it is someone foreign, that way MAYBE some of the domestics would get some breathing room and be able to start shipping some ammo for civillians. Rumor mill says it may be PMC though.


We have NEVER ordered 5.56mm ammo from the Tiawanese.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:47:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
It sounds to me like we need to just bite the bullet (no pun intended) and open another ammo plant. If LC can't meet the demand now while we're fighting a guerilla war, what's gonna happen if we get into a large drawn out conventional one?

Ain't gonna happen. The leadership won't swallow that bill.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 9:00:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 6:31:10 AM EDT by P-245]

Originally Posted By Will:
How many plants have they idled? I know of at least one. Where else in the last 20-25 years have we made ammo? I have NO idea what it would take to restart an ammo plant but I am guessing it wouldn't be an easy task.


We had 16 small arms ammunition plants at the peak of WWII. During Vietnam we were down to 5. We now have one.

Build a new plant? BIG $$$.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:42:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 1:48:56 PM EDT by Will]
Never bought ammo from Taiwan? Then I guess they won't cash our check!

http://www.spacewar.com/2005/050106095659.qo2jdpbs.html

and here

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/cat_ammo_and_munitions.html



While it's not alot by military standards, 300 million rounds would last me awhile.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:29:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 6:50:51 AM EDT by P-245]

Originally Posted By Will:
Never bought ammo from Taiwan? Then I guess they won't cash our check!

http://www.spacewar.com/2005/050106095659.qo2jdpbs.html

and here

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/cat_ammo_and_munitions.html



While it's not alot by military standards, 300 million rounds would last me awhile.



We never sent them a check. Read the articles carefully. They do not say the word "bought". Show me an official USG link to the contract where we BOUGHT the ammo. Of course you can't, beacuse we have never bought 5.56mm ammo from Taiwan.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:32:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_newguy:

Originally Posted By markm:
I love ammuntion.


I love ATK stock.



Both make me happy
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