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Posted: 9/23/2004 4:29:17 AM EDT
Thought I would pick up a Bushmaster lower from my local gunshop. The guy behind the counter starts warning me that this may not be wise when/if new legislation is passed. His view is that if you do not buy a complete gun then you may not be able to use a lower bought as a "lower only" in the futute. Can anyone give me some informed advise. I think this guy means well but I'd like to get some other opinions. Sorry if this is an old topic.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:36:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 4:40:43 AM EDT by FortyFiveAutomatic]
Get a MEGA. Bushmaster is high quality, too, but very expensive, as you well know. MEGA receivers are very high quality and priced very right (~$90, just google and find CarricozArmory). I don't think that man is correct. I believe that if you buy the receiver (which is the actual "firearm") at a time of no ban, then whatever accessories you purchase should not be subject to a future ban. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is. Someone help me out here.

P.S. If you want more info on MEGA receivers, just visit the Build it Yourself part of these AR forums. Guys over there love 'em. Good luck!

P.P.S. That guy probably wants to sell you one of his complete rifles. Some FFL's I have come across would rather lean you towards the immediate availability of their own firearms and subtly dissuade you from purchasing elsewhere or building your own.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:38:23 AM EDT
Gun shop owners have ben known to pass on a lot of phoney BS !! are grumpy as hell & seem to think you are an idiot !!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:40:29 AM EDT
Goat, you know this guy better than us, so if you think he is sincere, then OK.
I think he does have point about future legislation, but I think it's very thin.
It sounds like he's trying to manipulate you into buying a complete rifle.

Good Luck! Johnny C!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:42:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 4:43:33 AM EDT by badeffect10]
Actually, if you look at the old legislation, it stated that the lower had to be assembled into a complete rifle before the ban to be considered a pre-ban. The burdon of proof would be on the accusing party if it ever became an issue, which I doubt it ever would. I wouldn't worry about it though.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:46:47 AM EDT
How would they ever find out, though? It's not like uppers are serial numbered, or are they?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:55:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 4:55:25 AM EDT by mongo001]
It's a pitty that many gun shop owners don't keep up on the legislation that DIRECTLY affects their business. While he is right in one point, that a lower by itself may be a problem, there is such a simple solution to that issue, that it is not really an issue. Assemble your rifle, prior to any other legislation (ban is a banned word in my vocabulary), and you are good. It's that easy. If you wear a tin foil hat, get notarized pics, mail them to yourself, get a lawyer to sign them, bless them with holy water, have a Native American do a rain dance on them or whatever else you think will make the government think it was a complete rifle before the aforementioned legislation is passed.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:59:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
How would they ever find out, though? It's not like uppers are serial numbered, or are they?

No they don't have SN's. I have never heard of any case in which this has been an issue. It's merely a precautionary measure. If it did become an issue, the ATF or whoever, may ask for dated invoices showing when you bought the upper to go on the lower. But like I said before, I doubt that it would ever be an issue.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:52:38 AM EDT
(In this extreme case) even if they did ask for invoices, couldn't you just say, "Sorry boys, I threw 'em away ages ago." The burden of proof would still be their responsibility, so they couldn't even touch you, huh?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:08:20 AM EDT
Here is a link to the MEGA lowers.......

Click here
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:13:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:20:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 6:20:54 AM EDT by Vector_Joe]

Originally Posted By Aimless:
No way of knowing what, if any, future legislation might be, I can't say the ffl guy is 100% off base, but personally I would not worry about it, it's too speculative.

This is exactly the thing. Any new legislation will probably not have the same wording as the old 94 one. It could ban things outright, so it wouldn't matter. Get what you want now (within current laws) and WE will All have to fight any future bans.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:23:34 AM EDT
Future bans....
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:46:32 AM EDT
I bought a Bushy lower... great quality, but I paid through the nose for it when you compare the price/quality of Mega or Stag to Bushmaster.

With that said, I like my Bushy lower on my J&T 20" A3. I'm quick to correct people when they say, "Oh, this is a Bushmaster, too." I tell 'em, "Nope... I built that one myself but used a Bushmaster lower" which typically opens a conversation about building 'em, how easy it is, and I've gotten more than one person interested in building their own.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 12:01:29 PM EDT
all you gotta do is put a "perban" type upper on the lower that you buy and take a photo of the gun put together. you might include in the photo that days newspaper. that way there is no question that the lower was made into a compleat weapon prior to any future bans. there was nothing in the 94 ban that said that once the lower was compleat that it could not be taken apart again afterwards. you could do this with as many lowers that you might buy.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 3:27:59 PM EDT
Thanks for all the input on this. I like the idea of a photo of an assembled rifle along side a newspaper......just in case someone were to get picky.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:17:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 97-silver-z:
there was nothing in the 94 ban that said that once the lower was compleat that it could not be taken apart again afterwards. you could do this with as many lowers that you might buy.

Is this correct? I thought there was something in there about taking a "pre-ban" and removing the evil parts resulting in the "pre-ban" becoming a "post-ban". I know this would be a lame matter, since how would they prove that the evil parts were removed and then put back on.

It doesn't matter any more and I am not certain on this, just asking out of curiosity.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:31:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 7:38:51 PM EDT by deltaopwong]
The guy in the gunshop wants to sell you an entire Bushy rifle for 900-1000.00 instead of a 150.00 Bushy lower because he'll make more profit on the entire gun and plus Bushy lowers are probably backordered for the next few months and he doesn't have access to any at the moment. I have 2 new stripped lowers that I purchased 3 months ago and I'm not worried about any future legislation. There is probably a 1-2 month waiting period for lowers from the big companies (Bushmaster, RRA, EagleArms/Armalite, DPMS) because they would rather sell a rifle for 800-900.00 with all the preban features than a 100-130.00 lower for your own custom build. Just as the others have said, if you want a lower now, go pick up a MEGA or STAG lower. Great quality and a very competitive price! If you could find a Bushy, RRA or a stripped Colt lower, more power to you. Just my .02
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:47:40 PM EDT
AMEETEC ARMS great price,quality and fit and finish excellent.as I dont like upper and lower fit RRA tight.Field rifle tight is fine with me and Id rather dissasemble without having to use something to push out the rear puvot.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:58:08 PM EDT
Amen on gunshop owners treating you like you're incompetent fools. Had one get into a fight with me the other day when I went in inquiring about local gunsmith (should have been a tip off to me when he said he didn't know of a gunsmith in the area). The owner of this particular shop, besides for deriding me for purchasing a RRA carbine and informing me that 'if its not colt its excrement' and that 'the DEA would NEVER contract for a M16/AR15 platform from anyone other than colt' told me that one could not convert a post ban-rifle into a non-ban rifle. When I probed him on the reason for this, he proceeded to spew forth a haphazard and illogical parsing of tasty tidbits and juicy morsels of the entire scope of federal firearms law, none of which happened to be a correct or complete interpretation of any of the USC provisions which he was referring to. It was quite clear from his general rambling that he was confusing not only 922(r), the 1989 ban, the 1994 ban, and the NFA but several other provisions as well. After pointing this all out, he indignantly asked "well, what are you, a lawyer?" Which, I happily obliged him with my card.

Anywho, this is really neither here nor there. But, I've always found it much better to be well prepared with your own facts and research before you go into any local gunshop looking for info. I've found that the tactical advantage of letting them think you're not familiar with things does work out in your favor in the end as you can catch them in inaccuracies.

Moral of the story? Unless you are friends on a personal basis with the owner/dealer, be wary of the cornicopia of verbal excrement and yarns that local dealers will spin for you.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:58:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:23:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lithgow303:
"well, what are you, a lawyer?" Which, I happily obliged him with my card.

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:39:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Goat007:
Thanks for all the input on this. I like the idea of a photo of an assembled rifle along side a newspaper......just in case someone were to get picky.

Newspaper doesn't prove that-think about it, Ican buy a newspaper today,build a rifle 10 yearrs from now and pull the paper out and take the photo-it works for kidnapping movies because the hostage must have been alive on the date of the paper because the paper was not made before that.

An affidavit from a gunsmith with pictures attached might work, though who knows

Get the pictures notarized. That will prove the date of the photos, not the newspaper. Only purpose for the newspaper is to show that the mod were made after the date of the paper. Kinda hard to take pictures before the paper was printed.
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