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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/13/2005 12:53:24 PM EDT
I was at the shop today to pick up a $80 Mauser, and as usual I decided to window shop the AR's.
Amongst the collection, I've only had an AR Pistol. I've never decided on a full sized Ar before.

As luck would have it there was a "used" M4 for $750. I say used because it looks like it had never been fired. No marks on the shell deflector, the bore is like a mirror, and the bolt looks brand new clean.
I wasn't sure of the value, but it seemed like a good price. They are listed for $1100 on the Bushmaster site, and I haven't really checked around, but it seemed good enough.

Was this a decent deal?
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 12:59:18 PM EDT
Great gun at a very good price!!!

Enjoy it!!!
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 1:21:28 PM EDT
I have the same AR, awesome weapon, great price too. Well Done!
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 2:15:37 PM EDT
It may be an A2 version

Not that an A2 isn't a good find, but it is clearly the step-sister to the ever-popular A3 (flat top)

still a good buy.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 2:34:29 PM EDT
Sounds like a good deal to me.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 2:38:11 PM EDT
It is the A-2. But I'm figuring that I can always get a flat-top heavy barrel upper in the future.

All afternoon I've been trying to get buyer's remosrse, but it hasn't happened.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 2:46:53 PM EDT
You can splurge and buy the Larue 7 inch tactical rail system for the front and still be under the retail for the gun in some of my local shops - sweeeet
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 3:04:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:
It may be an A2 version

Not that an A2 isn't a good find, but it is clearly the step-sister to the ever-popular A3 (flat top)

still a good buy.



Actually some people prefer the A2
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 3:22:05 PM EDT


Call me old-fashioned. But if doesn't have a carry handle. It just doesn't look right!


A2's Rock!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link Posted: 7/13/2005 4:14:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lckydevl:

Call me old-fashioned. But if doesn't have a carry handle. It just doesn't look right!


A2's Rock!!!!!!!!!!!!





+1
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 4:19:33 PM EDT
Buy it.I have A2s and use a goose neck mount for my aimpoint.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 4:29:03 PM EDT
I prefer A2.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 6:09:38 PM EDT
I bought a new A2, one year ago, for nearly that very price. The rifles hold their value pretty good, so I suspect you did just fine.

Tony
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 8:23:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2005 8:27:31 PM EDT by BoogerSnax]
Yep, just put it away and it still passes the "no regrets" test.

Now, I have to convince myself that it's ok to use the pile of Wolf .223 that I've been using in the AR pistol.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 8:31:57 PM EDT
Bushmaster A2's rock!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 8:35:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 8:47:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2005 8:47:38 PM EDT by Parrandero]

Originally Posted By redfisher:
It may be an A2 version

Not that an A2 isn't a good find, but it is clearly the step-sister to the ever-popular A3 (flat top)

still a good buy.



Spoken like a true condominium commando.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 8:55:02 PM EDT
For all the people who feel old school smug with their A2s, there are those of us who still prefer the A1 sights.

A1 or A3, but the A2s provide nothing for me. That being said, I still have some.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 9:08:29 PM EDT
Slightly less than $100 will make it into an A-3, carry handle a bit more......... nobody uses those anyway!!! Then sell the old upper receiver.

this should leave your options open.
Link Posted: 7/16/2005 10:42:35 AM EDT
Concerning Break-In.

The barrel isn't marked as being chrome lined. But according to the Bushmaster website, all the M-4 type guns are supposed to be chrome lined. And although it looks brand new, the bore certainly has a chrome look to it.
If that is the case, is the proper break-in action to fire a couple hundred rounds through it WITHOUT cleaning it at all?
Link Posted: 7/16/2005 10:53:32 AM EDT
What does your barrel say in front of the front sight base?
Link Posted: 7/16/2005 10:59:25 AM EDT
I'm at work at the moment. I'll have to to pull it back out this evening when I'm home. I know it didn't actually say "chrome" on it like a DPMS barrel does.
Link Posted: 7/16/2005 11:06:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By alaman:

Originally Posted By redfisher:
It may be an A2 version

Not that an A2 isn't a good find, but it is clearly the step-sister to the ever-popular A3 (flat top)

still a good buy.



Actually some people prefer the A2

Link Posted: 7/16/2005 11:08:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By alaman:

Originally Posted By redfisher:
It may be an A2 version

Not that an A2 isn't a good find, but it is clearly the step-sister to the ever-popular A3 (flat top)

still a good buy.



Actually some people prefer the A2



i have the A3 flat top, but still use the detachable carry handle and 4X scope. like alaman said, its a matter of preference! grea buy boogersnax!
Link Posted: 7/16/2005 5:49:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2005 5:49:49 PM EDT by BoogerSnax]

Originally Posted By Stickman:
What does your barrel say in front of the front sight base?


It's actually on the flash suppressor, which is something like 5 inches long.
8MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 H Bar

Link Posted: 7/16/2005 5:59:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mayhem23:
I have the same AR, awesome weapon, great price too. Well Done!




+1
Link Posted: 7/16/2005 5:59:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2005 6:00:23 PM EDT by sysop]
NO!!!!!

That was a crappy deal. Tell me the name of the gunstore and give me their phone number. I want to complain to their managment about this.

What are they thinking.

Unless you alread bought then, nevermind.
Link Posted: 7/17/2005 12:13:25 PM EDT
Ok.
So the lower is marked XM15 E2S

And the upper is this:


No wonder I couldn't find this exact configuration in the rifles section.
Is this a "not standard" configuration?
Link Posted: 7/17/2005 3:06:25 PM EDT
just a bump.
Link Posted: 7/17/2005 3:19:43 PM EDT
Its plenty popular, and there are plenty of people who have them....


I like mine with the A1 upper receiver.


Link Posted: 7/17/2005 3:25:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2005 3:27:12 PM EDT by BoogerSnax]
What kind of distance can be expected from this length?
Which leads to my next question.
If I'm only going to get 1 other upper, would a 20" be better than a 16", considering that this one is an 11.5"?

Edit: I took it apart and checked it out just a bit ago. There was a very thick oil on the bolt and the carrier. It really does look to be a factory oil job and the bore appears to be brand new.
Link Posted: 7/17/2005 4:44:36 PM EDT
good deal!

Link Posted: 7/17/2005 5:23:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BoogerSnax:
What kind of distance can be expected from this length?
Which leads to my next question.
If I'm only going to get 1 other upper, would a 20" be better than a 16", considering that this one is an 11.5"?

Edit: I took it apart and checked it out just a bit ago. There was a very thick oil on the bolt and the carrier. It really does look to be a factory oil job and the bore appears to be brand new.



1. Check out http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm for info on fragmentation range with the 11.5" barrel and the ammo you are using. Figure on using either 55 grain (Q3131A or XM193) for defensive use, or the heavy ammo like 68-77 grain. This is for defensive purposes, if you mean just target shooting, the 11.5" barrels will shoot as far as you are capable.

2. The 20" vs 16" debate is up to you and what your plans are for the weapon. I would go with a 16", and then a 20" later, but that is just me.

3. Congrats, and make sure you give it a good cleaning and relube it with something decent before you go out and have fun!
Link Posted: 7/17/2005 6:26:21 PM EDT
I've got a few thousand rounds of Wolf that I had been using in the AR pistol that I have, and I've got a thousand of the XM ammo on the way. It's got the "PD" designation after it, which I've read is a 2nd grade ammo.
I doubt that the Wolf will fragment, but it's cheap shooting. And as for accuracy, the 11.5 barrel is really just more of a velocity issue than an accuracy one? Because the 20" idea would be a flat top with a really good optic on it and I'm assuming that the extra 4 inces would be a benefit on really long shots.

As for lubing it, the Professional Ordnance AR pistol that I've got actually says to NOT lube anything in the bolt or carrier. So I'm winging it and after cleaning off the factory oil, I rubbed down everything with oil-wet fingers and then wiped it lightly with a dry cloth. I'm assuming that this will be enough lube for the first outing.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:46:57 AM EDT
I FINALLY got it out last Friday. It groups at 1.5" at 25 yards, open sights, XM193, WWB, and even Wolf. It pops clay pigeons on the berm behind the 50 yard target more often than I can hold it steady enough. So accuracy seems not be an issue.

One thing I did notice, that I hadn't before. Aside from the "HBAR 1/9 Etc." markings on the FS, there are no other markings on the upper, except for a 3 pointed crown on the front sight. Is this normal? And it it possible that it isn't an actual BM upper?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:52:41 AM EDT
if it says BMP then it is a Bushmaster barrel and probably a Bushy upper.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:21:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Parrandero:

Originally Posted By redfisher:
It may be an A2 version

Not that an A2 isn't a good find, but it is clearly the step-sister to the ever-popular A3 (flat top)

still a good buy.



Spoken like a true condominium commando.



That's pretty funny, Parrandero.

But the fact is the A2 typically sells from $55 -$169 less than the A3

$110 difference according to Bushmaster
and
$55 difference from a popular dealer who sells a lot of them
and
$169 difference from RB Precision for the Shorty AK A2 to A3 - and the lowest Bushmaster prices I have seen

at least in my condo complex, they are
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:27:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BoogerSnax:
And is it possible that it isn't an actual BM upper?



Pretty sure that is a Bushmaster product

They were pretty popular, and surprised that they arent listed on their current product list.

Especially since many are building XM177 and CAR 15 clones these days

Something like this one---------LINK


Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:32:07 PM EDT
Good deal.

Max
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 1:27:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By BoogerSnax:
And is it possible that it isn't an actual BM upper?



Pretty sure that is a Bushmaster product

They were pretty popular, and surprised that they arent listed on their current product list.

Especially since many are building XM177 and CAR 15 clones these days

Something like this one---------LINK

world.guns.ru/assault/xm177.jpg


From what I've gathered, I thought the XM pretty much had a 16". I'm good with the 11.5, and the accuracy seems just fine for me. The idea of a 20" still sounds good, but most all my shooting will never go past 100 yards.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 1:38:51 PM EDT

both my bushie uppers have the 3 point crown on the FSB forging...i don't know who does

the actual piece for them. they were both purchased in the 1989-90 time period. i

suspect that the "8mp" on the top of your bbl. is actually BMP.....bushmaster magnetic-

particle. i have the same basic rig with an A1 upper, and she shoots federal match to

about 1.25/1.50" at 50 meters or so. great gun-great buy...you gonna like it !!
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 3:29:30 PM EDT
I hope you got the Mauser too. Them old milsurps really rock and you can shoot it for under half the cost/round and up to 1/10 the cost of the rifle.
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