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Posted: 12/20/2011 5:50:48 PM EDT
Can I get some feedback on these weapons? I have heard that the Bushmaster's used to be great weapons. Any reason that they are not well respected now? A good friend that was Senior Training instructor for the local Sheriff's dept.recommended this as a first purchase, even over the LE/SP 6920.

Thanks,

Chuck
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 5:55:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2011 6:02:55 PM EDT by ziggiey]
Still decent rifles but NO Way I would take it over a 6920. Colt has 1/7 barrel, better bolt carrier group, way more tests and quality checks plus a higher re-sale value.
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 6:16:32 PM EDT
I own both Bushmaster ARs and Colt 6920's, the reason Bushmaster had a good reputation is because they were/are a pretty good AR for less than the cost for a Colt and Colts at the time brought a premium on the civilian market.

The 6920 is built to a higher standard. Both can put bullets down range, but when run hard the Colt will more often then not outperform the Bushmaster.

Colt ARs are now more available to civilians and the price difference is not as much.

I'm not telling you the Bushmaster is junk it's not, it is just not built with the same level of QA inspection and component testing that goes into Colt parts.
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 6:29:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Justin-Kase:
I own both Bushmaster ARs and Colt 6920's, the reason Bushmaster had a good reputation is because they were/are a pretty good AR for less than the cost for a Colt and Colts at the time brought a premium on the civilian market.

The 6920 is built to a higher standard. Both can put bullets down range, but when run hard the Colt will more often then not outperform the Bushmaster.

Colt ARs are now more available to civilians and the price difference is not as much.

I'm not telling you the Bushmaster is junk it's not, it is just not built with the same level of QA inspection and component testing that goes into Colt parts.


Bushmaster needs to step up their game. Times have changed.
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 6:29:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GCT00427:
A good friend that was Senior Training instructor for the local Sheriff's dept.recommended this as a first purchase, even over the LE/SP 6920.


your friend is wrong.
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 7:22:42 PM EDT
your friend is wrong...sorry


best way to get the cheapest AR with quality parts is to build it....or get a Colt, LMT, DD.

Bushmaster List price is 905.00 per their website - This is a plain jane 1/9 twist, Semi Carrier, single heat shield HG.

Issue I have seen in comparing their parts to others of higher quality are as follows:
- Improperly staked gas key
- castle nut not staked
- commercial tube not mil-spec - they have a little more wabble and are longer.
- 1/9 twist with a CL barrel that is not HP MP tested
- semi auto carrier with a bolt that is not MP tested
- No feed ramps (some now)
- No parkarizing under FSB
- Standard pins in FSB instad of taper pins
- plastic trigger guard (always bothered me personally) not really an issue though
- standard buffer not an H buffer

I could go on but I think you get the point. Link to Bushmaster CAR

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_az-c1516m4FT.asp

OR

You can buy a ranier arms lower for 325.00 with upgraded stock and milspec tube for 325.00
BCM upper for 399.00
LMT Auto carrier for 120.00
standard charging handel for 20.00
BCM DBL heat shield HG for 20.00
(1) Magpul mag for 14.50

all total for 898.50 for a better gun with quality parts that will run.
Link Posted: 12/21/2011 9:39:59 AM EDT
I've had a 20" Bushmaster since 2002, and it's digested 10,000+ rounds without a single malfunction.

I recently bought a M4A3 Bushmaster Patrol Rifle, from WALMART of all places, and even though I haven't shot it much it's a superb rifle.

I've read a lot of the "which rifle should I buy" posts here, and my observation is that the Bushmaster isn't the 'flavor of the month' like it was in 2002.

Then, I went to the gun shop, and he pulled down the supposedly superior COLT, and it had a Clinton-era bolt, that was chopped off, and non mil-spec pin sizes so you couldn't find aftermarket parts or GI parts to go into them. The Bushy was the one to have.

Now with everybody and their brother making AR parts, it seems like more people are building there own than ever before too.

Bushmaster moved their operations it seems to an underused Remington factory, and a lot of people don't understand that it's the same weapon, being made on the same machinery. My new one is top-notch.

So to sum up my opinion, if you like the Bushy and how it handles, buy it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2011 10:03:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2011 10:04:18 AM EDT by -Apocalypto-]
I think Bushmaster is a decent AR...It's just that now there are BETTER AR's out there for less money. PSA for example. A Bushmaster Patrolman's Carbine is around $900-$1000 now. You can get a Colt 6920 for $950 and a PSA for $620-$800 depending on what model/options you get.

*and I'm not even an AR guy.
Link Posted: 12/21/2011 11:04:31 AM EDT
the only way I would take a bushy over the 6920 was if I could save lots of cash

You can order barrels with a 1/7 twist

There barrels and chambers have been pretty good 5.56mm 4150

If I bought another bushy I would run a Colt or LMT carrier/bolt
Link Posted: 12/21/2011 12:16:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Justin-Kase:
I own both Bushmaster ARs and Colt 6920's, the reason Bushmaster had a good reputation is because they were/are a pretty good AR for less than the cost for a Colt and Colts at the time brought a premium on the civilian market.

The 6920 is built to a higher standard. Both can put bullets down range, but when run hard the Colt will more often then not outperform the Bushmaster.

Colt ARs are now more available to civilians and the price difference is not as much.

I'm not telling you the Bushmaster is junk it's not, it is just not built with the same level of QA inspection and component testing that goes into Colt parts.



This ^

end of thread...................

Link Posted: 12/21/2011 12:18:33 PM EDT
The most important thing to remember about cops is that most, and unfortunately, and overwhelming number these days, are not gun guys. Keep that in mind when one recommends one gun over another. They know their weapons and thats about it. They often recommend a particular model because they are issued such an animal and believe that said weapon is the best because its what they carry and/or the model they have the most experience with. And yes, even department trainers/instructors fall into this category.

I know cops that are gun guys, and those that are tend to really know their shit, but the guy that got his first gun ever in the academy and has not used anything else but dept issue since is not a good source of intel.

Not intending to lump your friend into this category, just giving a possible explanation as to why one would recommend an inferior product over a Colt 6920.
Link Posted: 12/21/2011 4:10:12 PM EDT
MYdept has 11 Bushmasters on the road. All are being replaced with Colt 6920's starting this year. The Colt is a signifigant quality upgrade. Any money saved by the initial purchase of Bushmasters was lost due to broken guns,lost training time because of malfunctioing guns or parts that had to be replaced. There is a reason why the U.S.Military does not issue Bushmasters. YMMV
Link Posted: 12/21/2011 4:11:09 PM EDT
I bought a Bushmaster in 2006. It is right at 5,000+- flawless rounds down range. It came with M4 cut14.5 w/ pinned FH 1/9" MP chrome lined barrel, feed ramps, parked under front sight, semi carrier without MP/HP tested bolt but properly staked key, sngleheat shield handguards and commercial tube castle nut not staked. Cost me $746+$45tax new. Its been a very dependable gun and I will not sell it. I replaced the gas rings at 4,000 rounds and put an O ring around the exstractor spring that's it.
I have another M4 type that's all milspec 1/7" MP/HP barrel and bolt, M16 carrier, doubleheat shields, milspec tube, M4 feedramps, ect. ,etc. But doesn't shoot any better or any worse.


Good guns come out on top no matter what name/brand is rolled on the magwell....... Have fun, buy what YOU want and SMILE all day at the range......Mike
Link Posted: 12/21/2011 4:53:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MD3707:
your friend is wrong...sorry


best way to get the cheapest AR with quality parts is to build it....or get a Colt, LMT, DD.

Bushmaster List price is 905.00 per their website - This is a plain jane 1/9 twist, Semi Carrier, single heat shield HG.

Issue I have seen in comparing their parts to others of higher quality are as follows:
- Improperly staked gas key
- castle nut not staked
- commercial tube not mil-spec - they have a little more wabble and are longer.
- 1/9 twist with a CL barrel that is not HP MP tested
- semi auto carrier with a bolt that is not MP tested
- No feed ramps (some now)
- No parkarizing under FSB
- Standard pins in FSB instad of taper pins
- plastic trigger guard (always bothered me personally) not really an issue though
- standard buffer not an H buffer

I could go on but I think you get the point. Link to Bushmaster CAR

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_az-c1516m4FT.asp

OR

You can buy a ranier arms lower for 325.00 with upgraded stock and milspec tube for 325.00
BCM upper for 399.00
LMT Auto carrier for 120.00
standard charging handel for 20.00
BCM DBL heat shield HG for 20.00
(1) Magpul mag for 14.50

all total for 898.50 for a better gun with quality parts that will run.


While I do not recommend a Bushmaster over a Colt, but I wouldn't call them junk either. I have a Colt LE6920 and a Bushmaster. Both were manufactured in 2008. They appear to be of the same quality. The Bushmaster didn't have a F-marked FSB, HPT/MPI bolt, H-buffer, staked castle nut, or a full auto carrier, but the staking on the carrier was well done, the upper had nice M4 ramps. Both shoot fine, and are reliable.

There are plenty of folks happily shooting Bushmasters out there, but for the $50 difference, I would get the Colt every time...
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 5:55:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GCT00427:
Can I get some feedback on these weapons? I have heard that the Bushmaster's used to be great weapons. Any reason that they are not well respected now? A good friend that was Senior Training instructor for the local Sheriff's dept.recommended this as a first purchase, even over the LE/SP 6920.

Thanks,

Chuck


Hey Chuck,
Others have already said it all. While most people would never find the weaknesses of a Bushmaster (compared to Colt), the Colt is a better weapon. I have abused several Bushmaster rifles (including 1 Patrolmans Carbine), have never had a single failure that I could blame on the rifles, so they are viable (25-30k). But compare tens of thousands of people abusing their rifles and Colt's will come out ahead, it is built to a better standard. All of my BM rifles shot very well, but as a company, they are being left behind. Seems BM is content to build a good rifle, instead of doing extra to build a really great rifle. Buy the Colt.
While other companies have kept up (or attempted to) with Colt, BM has built the same old rifles, falling behind customer desires (losing us as customers).
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 3:48:53 PM EDT
Wow, lots of good feedback. I sincerely appreciate it. In my buddy's defense, he thought that the Colt's were running $1200.00 + and the Bushmaster was going to be 25% less. I am a Colt man from way back owning two Goldcups, a custom Commander, and a Colt Defender. They had bought several Bushmasters for their department.

I also wondered about the Bushmasters since they are hardly mentioned here. I used to hear a few years back that they were very good guns. I just didn't get the warm fuzzies about one.

I am trying to decide which way to go. I will never shoot the gun very much. I just want to round out my collection with a decent AR. I have even considered the new M&P Sport as they are supposed to be a pretty good buy for around $650.. I guess I will keep reading and decide which way to go.

Thanks again for the good information.

Regards,

Chuck
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 3:58:50 PM EDT
Nothing wrong with the S&W sportey. Its especially good if your not into gun snobery. Plus it should hold its value and serve you a lifetime.........Mike
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 4:19:15 PM EDT
I have a Colt and a Bushmaster. Both run fine. Bushmaster doesn't make bad rifles. In fact, ten years ago it was all about Colt, Bushmaster and Armalite, with Colts being hard to find and pricey. In my opinion, the problem is that Bushmaster is (more or less) still building rifles to the same specs as ten years ago. A lot of manufacturers are using higher quality parts these days, as pointed out by others.

Given the fact that Bushmaster is not much cheaper than Colt, I would get the Colt.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 5:46:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GCT00427:
Wow, lots of good feedback. I sincerely appreciate it. In my buddy's defense, he thought that the Colt's were running $1200.00 + and the Bushmaster was going to be 25% less. I am a Colt man from way back owning two Goldcups, a custom Commander, and a Colt Defender. They had bought several Bushmasters for their department.

I also wondered about the Bushmasters since they are hardly mentioned here. I used to hear a few years back that they were very good guns. I just didn't get the warm fuzzies about one.

I am trying to decide which way to go. I will never shoot the gun very much. I just want to round out my collection with a decent AR. I have even considered the new M&P Sport as they are supposed to be a pretty good buy for around $650.. I guess I will keep reading and decide which way to go.

Thanks again for the good information.

Regards,

Chuck



if you are a Colt man buy a Colt. $945.00 for a SP6920 is a great price, and a few years from now when you want/need to sell you will get $850 back or more, you can save $100.00 and buy a Bushmaster now but you will find it hard to get more then $600 for it... the S&W sport is not mil spec (no forward assist) I don't know a serious AR guy who would buy one.... sorry but this one is a no brainer to me....
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 6:06:39 PM EDT
Wow, been a member since 2004 and this was your first post ...Anyways, my first AR was a Bushy that I purchased brand new right after the bad expired and I shot around 8000 rounds through it before I decided to part with it back in 2007. Ended up selling it to a close friend of mine and he still owns it to this day. Crazy thing about it is that it still functions 100%...

I've never had a problem with any of the Bushmaster i've persoanlly come across and I feel that they more than sufficient for a huge percentage of shooters out there today. Having said that, I will mimic what others have said, there are way too many other options on the market today at a similar price point that offer more for your money. If the two choices are between the Colt and the BM, I would take the Colt in a heartbeat. Just my 0.02, YMMV, blah blah blah...
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 6:24:28 PM EDT
Go onto a site like Lightfighter and read the training AARs and issues people and departments have with Bushmasters.

Bushmaster is ridding on their name alone, and while it used to be one of a few options, times have changed, production has gone up, QC has gone down, specs have stayed the same while peoples expectation for a weapons ability have gone up.

When Bushmaster was big and well regarded there weren't the level of training classes and the focus on high volume fire there is now. Nor were there 143+ AR manufacturers alone.

Prices on competing models have come down, while prices have (naturally) increased on Bushmaster weapons.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 6:31:42 PM EDT
If you are using it for work, just get a Colt. You will have zero regrets.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 2:35:03 AM EDT
Just an example of the fine quality coming from Bushmaster once they moved.

Note: 2nd picture is exaggerated for clarity & was done by hand without use of tools!

This is a NIB gun straight from the distributor that the customer noticed, needless to say he didn't buy it.





Link Posted: 12/23/2011 4:29:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Just an example of the fine quality coming from Bushmaster once they moved.

Note: 2nd picture is exaggerated for clarity & was done by hand without use of tools!

This is a NIB gun straight from the distributor that the customer noticed, needless to say he didn't buy it.


http://i39.tinypic.com/10wtcnk.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/pssaa.jpg


Wow, that's shoddy. Am I missing something in the first pic?
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 4:34:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pseudosuit:
Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Just an example of the fine quality coming from Bushmaster once they moved.

Note: 2nd picture is exaggerated for clarity & was done by hand without use of tools!

This is a NIB gun straight from the distributor that the customer noticed, needless to say he didn't buy it.


http://i39.tinypic.com/10wtcnk.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/pssaa.jpg


Wow, that's shoddy. Am I missing something in the first pic?


Selector isn't centered....which is minor, but the buffer tube is inexcusable.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 4:43:03 AM EDT
I have a Patrolman's Carbine. I switched out the bolt for a Spikes, and staked the castle nut, and it's a fine rifle. That said, I also have a 6920, and it is a better rifle.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 4:50:56 AM EDT
Get what you want. I have a bushmaster with 25,0000 + rounds on her, but things wear out. I had to changed the barrel and the entire BCG, but I shoot the piss out of this gun!! The trigger finally smoothed out (It's nice). There are some great options out there, I just can't justify getting a new stick when the one I have keeps on ticking. I have handled some of the PSA guns, (very nice) If I was in the hunt for a new gun that's where I'd start. Do your self a favor, don't get an AK. You think you have a problem choosing an AR, I have way more AK's than AR's and still can't make up my mind...................Sully
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 4:19:05 AM EDT
Thanks a lot for all the replies. I sincerely appreciate the help. Someone commented that I have been a member here for a long time and that this thread was my first post. I have been interested for a long time, just never followed through. Handguns are my passion and I have always had a new pistol on the list and just never did get to the AR. Also, will have to make a greater effort to shoot one. But now is the time. Wife has given me the go ahead. Today, I am checking locally for the availability of the Colt 6920. I am also going to take a look at the M&P 15 models. I just cannot go the Bushmaster route. If I don't have any luck, I will order one of the SP models from DSG and will have it shipped to a FFL.Just want to buy one I can get my grubby little hands on if I can. Also, I will be able to trade and hold cost down a bit with some of the inventory that I have on hand.

Regards,

Chuck
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 4:44:18 AM EDT
Anyone who would reccomend a Bushmaster over a Colt 6920 is probably not someone who you should be taking advice from...

Bushmaster uses commercial reciever extensions, 1x9" twist button rifled 4140 barrels, and semi BCG's. While Colt uses Milspec reciver extensions, 1x7" twist CHF 4150 barres, and auto BCG's.

With that said the Colt is a hell of a lot better rifle, for not much more money.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 12:11:43 PM EDT
I had the A4 bushmaster and the 16" bushmaster patrolman carbine. Both were excellent rifles, never had a problem with either one.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 12:19:58 PM EDT
I have both. The colt will digest anything I put through it and will work with about any mags. Can't say that about the bushy.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 12:25:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2011 12:26:02 PM EDT by GCT00427]
Well the rest of the story. Picked up an SP6920 today at a local fun store. It was only a few dollars more that the ones at DSG. I did have to pay tax on it, but was able to handle it and look it over before purchase. Now to learn everything that I can about the Black Rifle. Thanks for your comments.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 1:17:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stinx:
MY dept has 11 Bushmasters on the road. All are being replaced with Colt 6920's starting this year. The Colt is a signifigant quality upgrade.

wait –– from your post above you haven't even deployed the Colt into your patrol vehicles.

how can you make the statement that the Colt "is a significant quality upgrade" when you have no patrol time on them?

ar-jedi

Link Posted: 12/27/2011 3:04:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GCT00427:
Well the rest of the story. Picked up an SP6920 today at a local fun store. It was only a few dollars more that the ones at DSG. I did have to pay tax on it, but was able to handle it and look it over before purchase. Now to learn everything that I can about the Black Rifle. Thanks for your comments.


congrats sir you have made a fine choice.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 3:56:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Just an example of the fine quality coming from Bushmaster once they moved.

Note: 2nd picture is exaggerated for clarity & was done by hand without use of tools!

This is a NIB gun straight from the distributor that the customer noticed, needless to say he didn't buy it.


http://i39.tinypic.com/10wtcnk.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/pssaa.jpg


they had lackluster craftsmanship before they moved.

i got a patrolman carbine as a gift back in January of 2009. the rifle had lots of slop. the finish on the upper and lower was uneven and had an "orange peel" look to it. Also, it wouldn't drop any magazine that i had.

i didn't want to offend the person that gifted the rifle, so i sent it to bushmaster. the replacement had much less slop with a buffer tube and birdcage that weren't properly indexed. the barrel had toolmarks and the stampings on the lower weren't properly done. the serial number was uneven. some of the numbers weren't on the same plane.

after dealing with their cs, i cut my losses. i used the lower for a .450 bushmaster build. the upper went on a cav15 lower for "truck gun" purposes.

it's nothing compared to the patrolman i bought back in 2006. the fit and finish was great. it's been through about 10,000 rounds with little to no problems. the problems i had were extraction issues after 3,000 rounds or so. i replaced the spring and the problem was solved.

would i buy another patrolman? not sure. i'd have to be really convinced.


Link Posted: 1/5/2012 7:50:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2012 8:16:10 AM EDT by MjolnirActual]
Ok first off I want to say Hi ... my name is FNG ... not just to the forums but to Black Rifles in general.

I too bought a BM M4A3 type Patrolman recently with a factory installed FF Quad Rail.

I was interested in the BM because I had the privilege of working with and around a number of local SWAT types during a major special event in our city a number of years ago. In picking their brain about ARs (both depts. had a mix of Colt and BM) they told me that basically they felt that they were both good weapons and that it would be difficult to tell one from the other in most circumstances and that they trusted both platforms.

I have been reading a lot of negative things in multiple forums about BM I have also found a bunch of folks saying that they are good weps and that they see no problem in them.

Also let me say I have been all over this weapon since the day I got it ... it is very well put together as far as I can tell, the mentioned issues with finishes and basic craftsmanship do not seem to be present in the AR I have in my home right now. It seems to function correctly in all aspects.

SO my question becomes one of perspective... when you get right down to it are we comparing degrees of "good" like Fords, Chevy and MOPAR here (ie. all capable and decent some anecdotal issues, but all with strengths and weaknesses in their own right) or are we really saying that BM is making an inferior product.

The reason I ask it this was is because, being also a bit of a computer weeny I know that with a lot of small incremental upgrades to things like clock speeds and frame rates tho they are actual mathematical "improvements" to a computer make great marketing tools for sales, but the actual improvement is so slight that the human eye/mind can't perceive the upgrade.

Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:20:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MjolnirActual:
Ok first off I want to say Hi ... my name is FNG ... not just to the forums but to Black Rifles in general.

I too bought a BM M4A3 type Patrolman recently with a factory installed FF Quad Rail.

I was interested in the BM because I had the privilege of working with and around a number of local SWAT types during a major special event in our city a number of years ago. In picking their brain about ARs (both depts. had a mix of Colt and BM) they told me that basically they felt that they were both good weapons and that it would be difficult to tell one from the other in most circumstances and that they trusted both platforms.

I have been reading a lot of negative things in multiple forums about BM I have also found a bunch of folks saying that they are good weps and that they see no problem in them.

Also let me say I have been all over this weapon since the day I got it ... it is very well put together as far as I can tell, the mentioned issues with finishes and basic craftsmanship do not seem to be present in the AR I have in my home right now. It seems to function correctly in all aspects.

SO my question becomes one of perspective... when you get right down to it are we comparing degrees of "good" like Fords, Chevy and MOPAR here (ie. all capable and decent some anecdotal issues, but all with strengths and weaknesses in their own right) or are we really saying that BM is making an inferior product.

The reason I ask it this was is because, being also a bit of a computer weeny I know that with a lot of small incremental upgrades to things like clock speeds and frame rates tho they are actual mathematical "improvements" to a computer make great marketing tools for sales, but the actual improvement is so slight that the human eye/mind can't perceive the upgrade.



Bushmaster is fine, the problem most of us have is that a Bushmaster M4A3 cost about $850 and a Colt 6920 cost about $1000. If you do the math that is a 15% price increase. For that minimal price increase you get a rifle that has been assembled with better base materials and to military specifications. This does not mean that it is the best AR15 on the market like a lot of people think, but rather Mil-Spec is the baseline of features that the AR15 platform should be built upon, and anything below is sub-standard (BM/RRA/DPMS) and anything above those specifiactions (DD,LaRue,Noveske) is above the standard, making a arguably superior rifle.

The current parts that Bushmaster uses that are "out of spec" are below with the correct part listed beside it in green.

1x9 Button Rifled Barrel 1x7 CHF Barrel
Extruded Commercial Reciver Extension Forged
Semi BCG Auto BCG
Carbine Buffer H Buffer

And the following CQ measures

Batch MPI Bolt Indivdual
Batch HPT Bolt Indivdual
Batch MPI Barrel Indivdual
Batch HPT Barrel Indivdual
Barrel Not Shot Peened Shot Peened

I think that the above features is worth the 15% price increase, but thats just me



Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:23:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MjolnirActual:
Ok first off I want to say Hi ... my name is FNG ... not just to the forums but to Black Rifles in general.

I too bought a BM M4A3 type Patrolman recently with a factory installed FF Quad Rail.

I was interested in the BM because I had the privilege of working with and around a number of local SWAT types during a major special event in our city a number of years ago. In picking their brain about ARs (both depts. had a mix of Colt and BM) they told me that basically they felt that they were both good weapons and that it would be difficult to tell one from the other in most circumstances and that they trusted both platforms.

I have been reading a lot of negative things in multiple forums about BM I have also found a bunch of folks saying that they are good weps and that they see no problem in them.

Also let me say I have been all over this weapon since the day I got it ... it is very well put together as far as I can tell, the mentioned issues with finishes and basic craftsmanship do not seem to be present in the AR I have in my home right now. It seems to function correctly in all aspects.

SO my question becomes one of perspective... when you get right down to it are we comparing degrees of "good" like Fords, Chevy and MOPAR here (ie. all capable and decent some anecdotal issues, but all with strengths and weaknesses in their own right) or are we really saying that BM is making an inferior product.

The reason I ask it this was is because, being also a bit of a computer weeny I know that with a lot of small incremental upgrades to things like clock speeds and frame rates tho they are actual mathematical "improvements" to a computer make great marketing tools for sales, but the actual improvement is so slight that the human eye/mind can't perceive the upgrade.



Most of us, yes. Absolutely. Quality control,initial quality of sourced parts. Attention to detail during assembly. All contribute to the quality of the rifle.

Size of gasport in barrels, proper barrel, gas key, and castle nut torque, barrel chamber reamed to correct size. Not to mentioning quality of metals which can lead to broken parts under stress.

Taling BCM/DD/Colt/LMT is talking ford/chevy. Vs BM, it is very much a n inferiority issue
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:30:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2012 8:31:27 AM EDT by gggplaya]
Originally Posted By TheMercenary:
Anyone who would reccomend a Bushmaster over a Colt 6920 is probably not someone who you should be taking advice from...


I don't think he blanketly said take a bushmaster over a colt. He was under the impression colts were still $1200 and bushmasters were $300-$400 less. I have a bushmaster, it shoots and looks fine. I've put about 2k rounds through it and never had a hiccup, and i'm sure it'll go many thousands more. For the same money, yes i'd take a colt, but the bushmaster is still a good rifle. But if i'm saving some hard earned dough, then the bushmaster is fine. Their customer service is decent too, so even if they do sell you a bad one, you're not married to it, you'll get a working one.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:54:57 AM EDT
Thanks a lot for the quick replies these insights are good gouge.

One thing I have to say is that money even that moderate up price to the Colt was a bit of a no fly for me.

I have been a war with the Finance Minister (ie. Wife) for a good while now to get my AR. Hey got a mortgage, twins car payments etc. So when I was in the moment I had a PO for $X.xx bucks ... and knew if I had to go home with $X.xx + bucks ... I would have to sleep with the AR loaded on the couch for my own protection.

Also the Colt that was there honestly didn't send me.... I now that is prob. gonna get me in trouble ... but the BM felt a bit more substantial to me and I wasn't thrilled with the MAGPUL furniture on the Colt. So to be sure that was some personal "feel" decisions made there too.

Thanks again gents I look forward to getting to know you all more over time.

Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:56:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2012 10:28:31 AM EDT by CJan_NH]
Originally Posted By mvician:
Originally Posted By Justin-Kase:
I own both Bushmaster ARs and Colt 6920's, the reason Bushmaster had a good reputation is because they were/are a pretty good AR for less than the cost for a Colt and Colts at the time brought a premium on the civilian market.

The 6920 is built to a higher standard. Both can put bullets down range, but when run hard the Colt will more often then not outperform the Bushmaster.

Colt ARs are now more available to civilians and the price difference is not as much.

I'm not telling you the Bushmaster is junk it's not, it is just not built with the same level of QA inspection and component testing that goes into Colt parts.



This ^

end of thread...................


Yeah, agreed on all counts.


I own two Bushy Patrolman's carbines, and an ridiculous number of 6920s (according to MrsCJan). Both are good weapons, but the little things add up to a lot. There are site sponsors blowing out 6920s for under a grand.

Buy one and don't look back.

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