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Posted: 9/7/2003 11:23:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Yep,
Had one its a jammin POS. Dont waste your money. |
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Posted: 9/7/2003 11:59:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Yep, Had one its a jammin POS. Dont waste your money. One of the Bushmasters, or an old P.A.? IAM1042 |
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Posted: 9/8/2003 5:37:50 AM EDT
[#3]
I think you'll find that Bushmaster has worked all the bugs out of Carbon15s. Here's Jarrod doing some product testing.
[img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16876[/img] [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16877[/img] [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16878[/img] |
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Posted: 9/8/2003 10:08:13 AM EDT
[#4]
FUGLY!
Not your daddy's AR that's for sure. |
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Posted: 9/8/2003 2:50:28 PM EDT
[#5]
would hand gaurds violate some ATF rules about it being a pistol? if they could make a set for i would be an owner.
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Posted: 9/8/2003 3:08:21 PM EDT
[#6]
If they get the bugs worked out, I think it will make a great back-packing rifle!
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Posted: 9/8/2003 4:41:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: would hand gaurds violate some ATF rules about it being a pistol? if they could make a set for i would be an owner. You can't have handguards or heat shields of any kind if the magazine isn't in the pistol grip. Thank the TEC-9 for that one, because this rule was specifically designed to ban the TEC-9. -Troy |
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Posted: 9/8/2003 5:54:48 PM EDT
[#8]
troy, thanks for the info. i remember all that now. i suposse the $5 AOW tax would cure that problem. now to find some sort of pistol grip or HG to fit the little bugger. i know a guy that has a prof ord model, i may have to shot it a few time, if he'll let me, to see if it's worthy.
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Posted: 9/9/2003 4:44:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Anyone else know of some first hand experience? I'm really interested in the P97.
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Posted: 9/9/2003 8:11:19 AM EDT
[#10]
I have first hand experience with the new rifles & pistols as my good friend GI_BRAT is showing you above.[}:)][;)]
We have made some major changes in the Carbon-15 weapon systems. Some of the pistol changes are the following: gas port hole was .113 now .086. Old pistol had no throat, new stuff has the 5.56 throat. Put in a Bushmaster barrel extension, and bolt. Some rifle changes are the following: gas port was .078, now .063. Gas block is hardened & heat treated. Also has the Bushmaster barrel extension & bolt. The receivers are now the same as all Bushmaster receivers. (spec wise) All rifles & pistols now meet the Bushmaster Standard of Quality & Reliability, and we are very excited to be manufacturing these as an addition to the Bushmaster Family of Firearms. |
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Posted: 9/9/2003 8:18:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Is my original PO type 97 pistol upgradable/fixable with these improvements? If so, how much $$ estimate?
Thanks |
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Posted: 9/9/2003 8:39:28 AM EDT
[#12]
When can we get carbon fiber/composite lowers for our traditional A2 - A3 uppers?
Will those lowers work with your "normal" stuff? They arent proprietary to that upper are they? I would love a lightweight composite lower with a collapsable stock and pencil thin barrel for next year! Can it happen? |
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Posted: 9/9/2003 10:35:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I think you'll find that Bushmaster has worked all the bugs out of Carbon15s. Here's Jarrod doing some product testing. [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16876[/img] [url]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16877[/url] [url]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16878[/url] Jeeze someone please tell Jarrod to put on some eye protection! Glad to hear Bushmaster got the bugs worked out. Question will Bushy work on Pro Ord guns? |
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Posted: 9/9/2003 10:44:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Is it legal to attach a vertical grip to the barrel?
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Posted: 9/9/2003 10:54:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Is it legal to attach a vertical grip to the barrel? To the pistol? Doing so would make the pistol an AOW (Any Other Weapon), so you'd have to deal with the NFA process, assuming AOWs are legal in your state and you can get CLEO signoff. -Troy |
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Posted: 9/9/2003 11:00:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: I have first hand experience with the new rifles & pistols as my good friend GI_BRAT is showing you above.[}:)][;)] We have made some major changes in the Carbon-15 weapon systems. Some of the pistol changes are the following: gas port hole was .113 now .086. Old pistol had no throat, new stuff has the 5.56 throat. Put in a Bushmaster barrel extension, and bolt. Some rifle changes are the following: gas port was .078, now .063. Gas block is hardened & heat treated. Also has the Bushmaster barrel extension & bolt. The receivers are now the same as all Bushmaster receivers. (spec wise) All rifles & pistols now meet the Bushmaster Standard of Quality & Reliability, and we are very excited to be manufacturing these as an addition to the Bushmaster Family of Firearms. Have you guys done a torture test yet? And if so, how many rounds down range with out a hiccup? |
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Posted: 9/9/2003 11:02:30 AM EDT
[#17]
You can't put a vertical grip on it.
You can't attach a heat shield or anything else to the barrel to protect the non shooting hand. However you can attach a light or a laser and other accessories to the barrel. So use a flash light with a handle attached to it. The handle is attached to the flashlight and the flashlight is attached to the barrel. No ruling on that. Just an idea. Use a flashlight with a big grip and use the Professional Ordinance mounts for the barrel. This is completely legal. |
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Posted: 9/9/2003 6:23:18 PM EDT
[#18]
The more I see and hear people talk about them the more I want one. Anyone know of any sources to pick one up? I'm looking for a P97.
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Posted: 9/9/2003 6:37:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Anyone know where I can get a holster for it? [}:D]
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Posted: 9/9/2003 6:56:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: heat treated. Also has the Bushmaster barrel extension & bolt. [red]The receivers are now the same as all Bushmaster receivers. (spec wise[/red]) So can we order the new complete uppers to mount on our existing lowers ?[?]? & vice-versa?? new light weight lowers with traditional M4 uppers ?? |
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Posted: 9/9/2003 8:54:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Here is mine with a 120 round drum AR magazine.
It kicks serious ass when dumnping a 120 rounds though this AR pistol. The barrel gets really hot, but it sure is fun, and it sure draws attention from anyone around. Blows a 3 foot fireball out the barrel with Lake City ammo. With the right mags it will not jam, but it took me awhile to find some mags that worked good. This is one of the PO guns, not a current Bushmaster version. [IMG]http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/500/148PISTOL.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 1:15:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Anyone know where I can get a holster for it? [}:D] I was kinda thinking the same, but seriously. Since it's marketed as a "pistol" I assume it's CCW complaint (no sawed-off SBS or SBRs qualify). After a SHTF I had I wouldn't mind 30 rds of 5.56 in lieu of 15 rds of .45 |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 3:20:42 AM EDT
[#23]
SOMONE ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!
Can you put an "normal" AR upper on the composite lower? |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 3:51:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: SOMONE ANSWER THE QUESTION!!! Can you put an "normal" AR upper on the composite lower? I'd guess that you can put a "normal" upper on the carbon rifle lowers only, not the pistol lowers (because Jarrod specifically said the rifle changes included same-spec lowers, but didn't say that about the pistol changes). I don't know all the legalese regarding it, but I'm guessing that they didn't standardize the pistol lowers to avoid the chance of somone putting a "normal" upper on the pistol lower since it's apparently illegal for them to have handguards or forward grips. Just a guess, I'm sure someone here with more actual knowledge can straighten us out. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 6:23:24 AM EDT
[#25]
I am asking in regard to their rifle carbon fiber lowers. Interchangability would be sweet indeed.
Gives my future lightweight project a whole new dirction if it is possible. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 7:14:39 AM EDT
[#26]
i wanna know too, will the uppers swap out
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Posted: 9/10/2003 11:52:55 AM EDT
[#27]
The uppers will NOT swap out. The Carbon 15 guns use a proprietary bolt and recoil system, which is why they don't have a buffer tube and why the stock is removable on the rifle.
-Troy |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 12:44:31 PM EDT
[#28]
I thought they were the same as standard AR recievers now?
What did Jarrod mean when he said they were the same as all Bushmaster recievers spec wise in his above post? Someone said they'll interchange now? |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 4:11:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Also has the Bushmaster barrel extension & bolt. [red]The receivers are now the same as all Bushmaster receivers. (spec wise)[/red]. bummer, I hoped there would be some interchangeability [:(] I'll still seriously think about buying one though, since it's so dang light. |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 4:25:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Some rifle changes are the following: gas port was .078, now .063. Gas block is hardened & heat treated. Also has the [red]Bushmaster barrel extension & bolt[/red]. [orange]The receivers are now the same as all Bushmaster receivers. (spec wise)[/orange] [red]So, the bolt is the same as the one in my shorty?[/red] [orange]Doesn't that imply that a standard upper will fit?[/orange] It may use a different BC, but it it uses the same bolt and extension, than any AR barrel should be good to to go. If the receiver is the same as all bushmaster receivers, than any upper should snap on. Further you should be able to screw the standard buffer tube in and use just the carbon reciever. Right? Wrong? Maybe? |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 5:15:31 PM EDT
[#31]
[img]www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/Images/C15R97wbgrnd.jpg[/img]
What Jerrod meant is that the specs for things like the mag well (which were different, and the source of a number of problems) have been corrected. The lower on a Carbon 15, where the receiver extension is normally screwed in, isn't drilled or threaded, nor is there really any provision for doing so. Instead, it has a stub that holds the removable stock on. -Troy |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 5:47:13 PM EDT
[#32]
No one have an answer to my question?
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Posted: 9/10/2003 5:57:07 PM EDT
[#33]
if i put a bushmaster three rail mounting block onto the barrel(they sell these for their rifles) and then added a 8 inch rail to each of the rails on the triple mount i would have hand guards that would qualify as accessory rails not handguards, wouldnt i?
then i wouldput a surefire on one rail and a laser or something on the other. would this be legal? |
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Posted: 9/10/2003 11:02:01 PM EDT
[#34]
gootmacher. some folks have raised some good legal questions like yours for the post ban pistols.
Like the flashlight mount under the barrel earlier in the post. I guess we'll need an authority on the law and regs to clear some of this up. I knew about the post ban weight limit. I'm not sure if add ons affect the weight or not. Same for your idea of a quad rail. Maybe someone will clarify this for us? |
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Posted: 9/11/2003 2:42:57 AM EDT
[#35]
Many pistols now come with a rail on the dustcover. The only thing I see being a problem is the weight limit. I wouldn't put a sure-fire 900 on it though, that would be askin' for trouble.
If you own a VFG for your AR, and you have a pistol with a picatinny rail on it, would that constitute constructive intent? |
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Posted: 9/11/2003 3:12:54 AM EDT
[#36]
So, the bolt is the same as the one in my shorty? Doesn't that imply that a standard upper will fit? It may use a different BC, but it it uses the same bolt and extension, than any AR barrel should be good to to go. If the receiver is the same as all bushmaster receivers, than any upper should snap on. Further you should be able to screw the standard buffer tube in and use just the carbon reciever. Right? Wrong? Maybe? Inquiring minds want to know! |
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Posted: 9/11/2003 8:38:07 AM EDT
[#37]
I think Troy answered most of them in his response. I belive now that the only thing interchangable would be the complet barrel, the bolt, and possibly the FCG.
New question, is there a choice of handguards, or is that part of the upper receiver? The only thing that bothers me cosmetically about the rifle is the handguard. |
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Posted: 9/11/2003 10:41:36 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: New question, is there a choice of handguards, or is that part of the upper receiver? The only thing that bothers me cosmetically about the rifle is the handguard. The 5 models are pictured here: [url]www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/[/url] Of the three carbines, two have the handguards pictured above, and then there's the top-end model that has those handguards with a full-length top rail: [img]www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/Images/C15R97Swbgrnd.jpg[/img] Bushmaster Carbon 15 Type 97S Rifle -Troy |
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Posted: 9/11/2003 12:20:31 PM EDT
[#39]
I've seen them all.
I still don't like the HGs. I'll likely acquire one in due time. Probably the 97s due to the irons and full length rail. |
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Posted: 9/11/2003 12:40:06 PM EDT
[#40]
[img]http://www.olyarms.com/images/oa93ptstockattached.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.olyarms.com/oa93pt.html[/url] Post-ban legal rifle. Push-button detachable stock. Vertical pistol grip and rail handguard standard equipment. Lifetime warrantee. Suggested retail =$1074.00. |
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Posted: 9/11/2003 12:50:00 PM EDT
[#41]
I have one of the old Professional Ordnance pistols. Many Type 2 malfunctions, even after sending it back to PO for work. It's been sitting in my safe. Tired of trying to make it work, though it would be a fun gun if it was reliable.
Is Bushmaster backing the PO "lifetime warranty?" If so, I'd like to send it back for work. I'd even be willing to pay IF the pistol would then work as advertised. Gerry |
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Posted: 9/11/2003 7:49:09 PM EDT
[#42]
I still want to know if anyone else has seen them in their local dealer or if they aren't being shipped yet. I'd also like to hear from anyone else that has shot the BUSHMASTER version.
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Posted: 9/11/2003 8:59:47 PM EDT
[#43]
What's the difference between the Type 21 and the Type 97? Not too obvious from the BM web page. Cost, obviously, but what else?
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Posted: 9/11/2003 10:12:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: What's the difference between the Type 21 and the Type 97? Not too obvious from the BM web page. Cost, obviously, but what else? as far as I can tell the 97 has a chrome bolt carrier, fluted barrel & a Hogue grip |
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Posted: 9/12/2003 7:56:52 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: What's the difference between the Type 21 and the Type 97? Not too obvious from the BM web page. Cost, obviously, but what else? as far as I can tell the 97 has a chrome bolt carrier, fluted barrel & a Hogue grip That is what it looks like to me as well. The fluted barrel lets you add a light or laser to the gun. |
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Posted: 9/12/2003 8:30:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Anyone else know of some first hand experience? I'm really interested in the P97. i have a P.O. Carbon-15 Pistol Type 97..., i got it new from a fellow who hand selected 10 off the assy. line, it was NIB when i got it, i have been shooting it for 4 weeks now, got about 600 rounds thru it, S&B, LC 02, & hand loads..., shes a kicker !! but nothing like a .357 mag., throws a fireball that will rival any 4th of July fireworks, takes AR-15 mags, 30's make a decent hand hold, when shooting off hand, from a bench the 20's are best, mine jammed once due to a nearly worn out mag., one hand hold is easy, but hitting any thing you aim at is fairly safe from being hit.., not due to bad accuracy, bad trigger pull !! i'll eventually work mine down with hard Arkansas stones, removing the removable muzzle brake will produce considerably more recoil, but i was told there are other brakes that can be used....., as a concealed weapon...? forget it !! as a nice little back packing, camping, self protection gun, great !! after fireing 2 or 3, 20 rnd. mags. the rear sight drifts left, it is another "fun gun" that i enjoy shooting, ear protection is not an option, it is a necessity !!! i know it's not a Bushy, but it is a damn good one any way......!! |
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Posted: 9/13/2003 6:23:31 AM EDT
[#47]
When tha assult weapons ban goes away we we be able to make AR pistols from kits?
Ive seen kits at MODEL 1 SALES. |
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Posted: 9/13/2003 9:22:38 AM EDT
[#48]
Re: swap outs, this is cut and pasted from Bushmaster's forum:
[b]We are not selling the Carbon 15 lowers as a separate item. No other stock can be put on the Carbon 15 lower unless the lower is modified. Our forged uppers will attach to our new Carbon 15 lowers. ________________________________________ Jarrod McDevitt 1-800-998-7928 Ext# .223 Bushmaster Firearms Made With Pride In The U.S.A.[/b] [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=141269[/url] |
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Posted: 9/16/2003 6:08:31 PM EDT
[#49]
So does anyone know where I can get one online?
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Posted: 9/16/2003 6:17:12 PM EDT
[#50]
"We are not selling the Carbon 15 lowers as a separate item. No other stock can be put on the Carbon 15 lower unless the lower is modified. Our forged uppers will attach to our new Carbon 15 lowers."
I call BS! A bushmaster rep told me opposite. The traditional uppers will swap out with the new carbon fiber lower SO LONG AS you use a carbon 15 bolt carrier. The lower has a shorter buffer tube or something. If I want to get a new carbon lower, why dont you say yours broke? |
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