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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 9/7/2003 7:47:48 PM EDT
I know this sounds crazy, but I want one of these! Does anyone have any 1st hand experience with these from BUSHMASTER? I'm very curious.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 11:23:50 PM EDT
Yep, Had one its a jammin POS. Dont waste your money.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 11:59:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RU1096: Yep, Had one its a jammin POS. Dont waste your money.
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One of the Bushmasters, or an old P.A.? IAM1042
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:37:50 AM EDT
I think you'll find that Bushmaster has worked all the bugs out of Carbon15s. Here's Jarrod doing some product testing. [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16876[/img] [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16877[/img] [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16878[/img]
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:08:13 AM EDT
FUGLY! Not your daddy's AR that's for sure.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 2:50:28 PM EDT
would hand gaurds violate some ATF rules about it being a pistol? if they could make a set for i would be an owner.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 3:08:21 PM EDT
If they get the bugs worked out, I think it will make a great back-packing rifle!
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 4:41:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:54:48 PM EDT
troy, thanks for the info. i remember all that now. i suposse the $5 AOW tax would cure that problem. now to find some sort of pistol grip or HG to fit the little bugger. i know a guy that has a prof ord model, i may have to shot it a few time, if he'll let me, to see if it's worthy.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 4:44:56 AM EDT
Anyone else know of some first hand experience? I'm really interested in the P97.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 8:11:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 8:57:54 AM EDT by bushmaster]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 8:18:21 AM EDT
Is my original PO type 97 pistol upgradable/fixable with these improvements? If so, how much $$ estimate? Thanks
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 8:39:28 AM EDT
When can we get carbon fiber/composite lowers for our traditional A2 - A3 uppers? Will those lowers work with your "normal" stuff? They arent proprietary to that upper are they? I would love a lightweight composite lower with a collapsable stock and pencil thin barrel for next year! Can it happen?
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:35:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 10:42:35 AM EDT by drobs]
Originally Posted By GI_Brat: I think you'll find that Bushmaster has worked all the bugs out of Carbon15s. Here's Jarrod doing some product testing. [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16876[/img] [url]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16877[/url] [url]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16878[/url]
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Jeeze someone please tell Jarrod to put on some eye protection! Glad to hear Bushmaster got the bugs worked out. Question will Bushy work on Pro Ord guns?
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:44:53 AM EDT
Is it legal to attach a vertical grip to the barrel?
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:54:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:00:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bushmaster: I have first hand experience with the new rifles & pistols as my good friend GI_BRAT is showing you above.[}:)][;)] We have made some major changes in the Carbon-15 weapon systems. Some of the pistol changes are the following: gas port hole was .113 now .086. Old pistol had no throat, new stuff has the 5.56 throat. Put in a Bushmaster barrel extension, and bolt. Some rifle changes are the following: gas port was .078, now .063. Gas block is hardened & heat treated. Also has the Bushmaster barrel extension & bolt. The receivers are now the same as all Bushmaster receivers. (spec wise) All rifles & pistols now meet the Bushmaster Standard of Quality & Reliability, and we are very excited to be manufacturing these as an addition to the Bushmaster Family of Firearms.
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Have you guys done a torture test yet? And if so, how many rounds down range with out a hiccup?
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:02:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 11:04:26 AM EDT by wondermut]
You can't put a vertical grip on it. You can't attach a heat shield or anything else to the barrel to protect the non shooting hand. However you can attach a light or a laser and other accessories to the barrel. So use a flash light with a handle attached to it. The handle is attached to the flashlight and the flashlight is attached to the barrel. No ruling on that. Just an idea. Use a flashlight with a big grip and use the Professional Ordinance mounts for the barrel. This is completely legal.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:23:18 PM EDT
The more I see and hear people talk about them the more I want one. Anyone know of any sources to pick one up? I'm looking for a P97.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:37:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:56:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bushmaster: heat treated. Also has the Bushmaster barrel extension & bolt. [red]The receivers are now the same as all Bushmaster receivers. (spec wise[/red])
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So can we order the new complete uppers to mount on our existing lowers ?[?]? & vice-versa?? new light weight lowers with traditional M4 uppers ??
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 8:54:31 PM EDT
Here is mine with a 120 round drum AR magazine. It kicks serious ass when dumnping a 120 rounds though this AR pistol. The barrel gets really hot, but it sure is fun, and it sure draws attention from anyone around. Blows a 3 foot fireball out the barrel with Lake City ammo. With the right mags it will not jam, but it took me awhile to find some mags that worked good. This is one of the PO guns, not a current Bushmaster version. [IMG]http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/500/148PISTOL.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 1:15:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: Anyone know where I can get a holster for it? [}:D]
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I was kinda thinking the same, but seriously. Since it's marketed as a "pistol" I assume it's CCW complaint (no sawed-off SBS or SBRs qualify). After a SHTF I had I wouldn't mind 30 rds of 5.56 in lieu of 15 rds of .45
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:20:42 AM EDT
SOMONE ANSWER THE QUESTION!!! Can you put an "normal" AR upper on the composite lower?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:51:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Knife_Sniper: SOMONE ANSWER THE QUESTION!!! Can you put an "normal" AR upper on the composite lower?
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I'd guess that you can put a "normal" upper on the carbon rifle lowers only, not the pistol lowers (because Jarrod specifically said the rifle changes included same-spec lowers, but didn't say that about the pistol changes). I don't know all the legalese regarding it, but I'm guessing that they didn't standardize the pistol lowers to avoid the chance of somone putting a "normal" upper on the pistol lower since it's apparently illegal for them to have handguards or forward grips. Just a guess, I'm sure someone here with more actual knowledge can straighten us out.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 6:23:24 AM EDT
I am asking in regard to their rifle carbon fiber lowers. Interchangability would be sweet indeed. Gives my future lightweight project a whole new dirction if it is possible.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 7:14:39 AM EDT
i wanna know too, will the uppers swap out
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 11:52:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 12:44:31 PM EDT
I thought they were the same as standard AR recievers now? What did Jarrod mean when he said they were the same as all Bushmaster recievers spec wise in his above post? Someone said they'll interchange now?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:11:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bushmaster: Also has the Bushmaster barrel extension & bolt. [red]The receivers are now the same as all Bushmaster receivers. (spec wise)[/red].
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bummer, I hoped there would be some interchangeability [:(] I'll still seriously think about buying one though, since it's so dang light.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:25:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bushmaster: Some rifle changes are the following: gas port was .078, now .063. Gas block is hardened & heat treated. Also has the [red]Bushmaster barrel extension & bolt[/red]. [orange]The receivers are now the same as all Bushmaster receivers. (spec wise)[/orange]
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[red]So, the bolt is the same as the one in my shorty?[/red] [orange]Doesn't that imply that a standard upper will fit?[/orange] It may use a different BC, but it it uses the same bolt and extension, than any AR barrel should be good to to go. If the receiver is the same as all bushmaster receivers, than any upper should snap on. Further you should be able to screw the standard buffer tube in and use just the carbon reciever. Right? Wrong? Maybe?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:15:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 5:26:30 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:47:13 PM EDT
No one have an answer to my question?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:57:07 PM EDT
if i put a bushmaster three rail mounting block onto the barrel(they sell these for their rifles) and then added a 8 inch rail to each of the rails on the triple mount i would have hand guards that would qualify as accessory rails not handguards, wouldnt i? then i wouldput a surefire on one rail and a laser or something on the other. would this be legal?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 11:02:01 PM EDT
gootmacher. some folks have raised some good legal questions like yours for the post ban pistols. Like the flashlight mount under the barrel earlier in the post. I guess we'll need an authority on the law and regs to clear some of this up. I knew about the post ban weight limit. I'm not sure if add ons affect the weight or not. Same for your idea of a quad rail. Maybe someone will clarify this for us?
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 2:42:57 AM EDT
Many pistols now come with a rail on the dustcover. The only thing I see being a problem is the weight limit. I wouldn't put a sure-fire 900 on it though, that would be askin' for trouble. If you own a VFG for your AR, and you have a pistol with a picatinny rail on it, would that constitute constructive intent?
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 3:12:54 AM EDT
So, the bolt is the same as the one in my shorty? Doesn't that imply that a standard upper will fit? It may use a different BC, but it it uses the same bolt and extension, than any AR barrel should be good to to go. If the receiver is the same as all bushmaster receivers, than any upper should snap on. Further you should be able to screw the standard buffer tube in and use just the carbon reciever. Right? Wrong? Maybe?
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Inquiring minds want to know!
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 8:38:07 AM EDT
I think Troy answered most of them in his response. I belive now that the only thing interchangable would be the complet barrel, the bolt, and possibly the FCG. New question, is there a choice of handguards, or is that part of the upper receiver? The only thing that bothers me cosmetically about the rifle is the handguard.
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 10:41:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 12:20:31 PM EDT
I've seen them all. I still don't like the HGs. I'll likely acquire one in due time. Probably the 97s due to the irons and full length rail.
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 12:40:06 PM EDT
[img]http://www.olyarms.com/images/oa93ptstockattached.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.olyarms.com/oa93pt.html[/url] Post-ban legal rifle. Push-button detachable stock. Vertical pistol grip and rail handguard standard equipment. Lifetime warrantee. Suggested retail =$1074.00.
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 12:50:00 PM EDT
I have one of the old Professional Ordnance pistols. Many Type 2 malfunctions, even after sending it back to PO for work. It's been sitting in my safe. Tired of trying to make it work, though it would be a fun gun if it was reliable. Is Bushmaster backing the PO "lifetime warranty?" If so, I'd like to send it back for work. I'd even be willing to pay IF the pistol would then work as advertised. Gerry
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 7:49:09 PM EDT
I still want to know if anyone else has seen them in their local dealer or if they aren't being shipped yet. I'd also like to hear from anyone else that has shot the BUSHMASTER version.
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 8:59:47 PM EDT
What's the difference between the Type 21 and the Type 97? Not too obvious from the BM web page. Cost, obviously, but what else?
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 10:12:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2003 10:13:58 PM EDT by cnatra]
Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger: What's the difference between the Type 21 and the Type 97? Not too obvious from the BM web page. Cost, obviously, but what else?
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as far as I can tell the 97 has a chrome bolt carrier, fluted barrel & a Hogue grip
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 7:56:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cnatra:
Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger: What's the difference between the Type 21 and the Type 97? Not too obvious from the BM web page. Cost, obviously, but what else?
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as far as I can tell the 97 has a chrome bolt carrier, fluted barrel & a Hogue grip
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That is what it looks like to me as well. The fluted barrel lets you add a light or laser to the gun.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:30:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vettman1: Anyone else know of some first hand experience? I'm really interested in the P97.
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i have a P.O. Carbon-15 Pistol Type 97..., i got it new from a fellow who hand selected 10 off the assy. line, it was NIB when i got it, i have been shooting it for 4 weeks now, got about 600 rounds thru it, S&B, LC 02, & hand loads..., shes a kicker !! but nothing like a .357 mag., throws a fireball that will rival any 4th of July fireworks, takes AR-15 mags, 30's make a decent hand hold, when shooting off hand, from a bench the 20's are best, mine jammed once due to a nearly worn out mag., one hand hold is easy, but hitting any thing you aim at is fairly safe from being hit.., not due to bad accuracy, bad trigger pull !! i'll eventually work mine down with hard Arkansas stones, removing the removable muzzle brake will produce considerably more recoil, but i was told there are other brakes that can be used....., as a concealed weapon...? forget it !! as a nice little back packing, camping, self protection gun, great !! after fireing 2 or 3, 20 rnd. mags. the rear sight drifts left, it is another "fun gun" that i enjoy shooting, ear protection is not an option, it is a necessity !!! i know it's not a Bushy, but it is a damn good one any way......!!
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 6:23:31 AM EDT
When tha assult weapons ban goes away we we be able to make AR pistols from kits? Ive seen kits at MODEL 1 SALES.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 9:22:38 AM EDT
Re: swap outs, this is cut and pasted from Bushmaster's forum: [b]We are not selling the Carbon 15 lowers as a separate item. No other stock can be put on the Carbon 15 lower unless the lower is modified. Our forged uppers will attach to our new Carbon 15 lowers. ________________________________________ Jarrod McDevitt 1-800-998-7928 Ext# .223 Bushmaster Firearms Made With Pride In The U.S.A.[/b] [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=141269[/url]
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 6:08:31 PM EDT
So does anyone know where I can get one online?
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 6:17:12 PM EDT
"We are not selling the Carbon 15 lowers as a separate item. No other stock can be put on the Carbon 15 lower unless the lower is modified. Our forged uppers will attach to our new Carbon 15 lowers." I call BS! A bushmaster rep told me opposite. The traditional uppers will swap out with the new carbon fiber lower SO LONG AS you use a carbon 15 bolt carrier. The lower has a shorter buffer tube or something. If I want to get a new carbon lower, why dont you say yours broke?
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