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Posted: 10/14/2004 6:51:01 PM EST
I would like some feed back on your opionion of the effectiveness of this particular rifle in a CQB environment. I have never shot one so I am uncertain as to the kick/recoil and the effect on a second shot. They don't provide an overall length. Just wondering how it would perform with say... a vltor stock and Comp M2 on it.

BAR10 A3 16 inch .308 Caliber

I've always thought that at least in theory it would be great to have a distance type gun and cqb weapon in the same caliber. This would cut down on ammo variances... types of ammo I would have to reload. If for some reason you ever did find yourself in a SHTF situation, you could easily pack two weapons, without affecting your ammo loadout. It would be even better if the two guns used the same magazines.

My problem is that I've always been torn between 5.56/223 and 7.62/308. The 5.56 isn't the best round for a sniper/hunting application, and the 7.62 is a big ? as far as an agile CQB capable weapon.

Thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:37:24 AM EST
I think you're getting into alot of muzzle blast and over penetration in a CQB situation with a 308. When I say CQB I'm thinking indoors or at least close confines if outside. Not that muzzle blast won't be an issue with a 5.56, just not as much in my experience. But you do have more knock down power at greater ranges with a 308. However whats your situation and what are the realistic ranges you'll use the weapon at? Are you talking SHTF? Home Defense. Police or Military CQB etc. I would lean towards the 5.56, in the typical CQB situation. Keep in mind what would be a justifiable use of force distance in a self defense situation. You'll be hard pressed to make a judge and jury believe you needed to use deadly force on someone at too great a distance. And yes that distance will change depending on what they are armed with and what their actions are at the time. Thats my experience and my two cents FWIW.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:42:45 AM EST
For CQB use the 155gr TAP for maximum performance and to minimize the risk of overpenetration on a COM shot. However misses, or hits through thin areas means you have an issue downrange.

For my home I'd never consider it - but for some members of a SWAT team it's probably a very good idea.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:59:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By XM17SBullpup:
I think you're getting into alot of muzzle blast and over penetration in a CQB situation with a 308. When I say CQB I'm thinking indoors or at least close confines if outside. Not that muzzle blast won't be an issue with a 5.56, just not as much in my experience. But you do have more knock down power at greater ranges with a 308. However whats your situation and what are the realistic ranges you'll use the weapon at? Are you talking SHTF? Home Defense. Police or Military CQB etc. I would lean towards the 5.56, in the typical CQB situation. Keep in mind what would be a justifiable use of force distance in a self defense situation. You'll be hard pressed to make a judge and jury believe you needed to use deadly force on someone at too great a distance. And yes that distance will change depending on what they are armed with and what their actions are at the time. Thats my experience and my two cents FWIW.



308 is WAY overkill in CQB. You would kill everyone in the house and the neighborhood.... The 308 will go thru practically anything.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:12:08 PM EST


I have a BAR-10 16" carbine with a little over 4,000 rounds experience with it.

Just finished a 4-Day training course last weekend where we were engaging targets at ranges from 3 feet to 200 yards. Awesome at all ranges.

Something like the way an old ad went - when you absolutely have to kill somebody, 308's the way to go.

With a Vortex Flash Hider mounted, there is no muzzle flash at all. Recoil is very manageable (women have shot my gun and asked their husbands to buy them one!).

Would I use one as a member of a START team to clear an apartment? No.

Would I use one to defend myself and loved ones in my own home in the desert? You bet!

Certainly .308 penetrates more than .223, so if you have neighbors only a wall away - probably not for you. But if you want the satisfaction of a .308 - by all means get one!
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 8:47:32 AM EST
Thanks for all the replies. I've seen Armalite's and now Bushmater's, and have just wondered at the effectiveness of this gun. By that I mean the ability to control it in a rapid fire quick engagement setting. I have some concern about how quickly I can get a follow up shot with the increased recoil over 5.56, as well as the overall length as a home defense rifle.

Like I said, ideally I'd like to get to a point where I only had one caliber. This does have its limitations, but comes with benefits as well. My main motivation is simply money. I can't really afford to have serveral rifles over a large range of calibers for a large range of situations, so I am looking for 2 rifles that would be able to handle a great deal of them. Neither rifle may be ideal in any one given situation, but between the two would be able to handle any given work load. I hope to never have to use my rifle to defend my home, or any one elses for that matter, but in looking at the BAR10, the first thing that came to mind was how well it would perform in a home defense/cqb situation.

I do have a little bit of that SHTF concern, but merely think that by choosing one caliber that I can cut costs in reloading equipment, spare parts, brass, primers, powder... yada yada yada. I know its a little out there, but I would like to be somewhat prepared if that situation ever did present itself. In picking one caliber, I am presented with the poblem of overkill/overpenetration in a CQB arena, or lack of knock down power in a hunting arena. I like elk, but don't charish the idea of trying to bring one down with a 5.56.
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