A few days ago, I called Burris Optics and talked to a gentleman about the new Burris Extreme Tactical SpeedDot. I had some very direct questions about their new product that is being advertised as a "tactical sight" with full-page ads in magazines that include people in SWAT uniforms that clearly state police.

I am a police officer with a mid-sized agency in the Midwest who has been closely monitoring the discussions on this forum about the XTS-135. I know the Aimpoint is the Mercedes of optics, and EOthingys are the "latest and greatest" but I was wondering if the Burris was actually designed for law enforcement use or for people who like to look "TACTICAL" at the range.

-- Confirmed: South Korea is the country of origin.

-- The XTS-135 is not a Burris design from the ground up, but an existing red dot that Burris looked at, took apart and contracted to make to their own specifications. This is clearly different than the SPOT because the Burris has beefed-up internals, lenses and waterproofing, among other improvements. Another difference is a 3 min. dot vs. a 4 on the SPOT.

-- The SpeedDot is actually in use and has been field tested by a few local agencies in Colorado and has held up very well to police use: 99 percent riding in a vehicle and working when you need it.  As with any optic, a hard case is a must when bouncing on potholes in the Midwest.

-- The rest of the Burris Xtreme series of scopes and a few SpeedDots are also in use by the military in Iraq by people who have purchased them on their own. Reports are very positive on the entire line.  (I have heard of soldiers using "disposable" red dots such as BSA and Tasco)

-- The are sending me an information packet. They list officer price at $159 or 55% off suggested retail. The catalog price for these for civilians is about $200 at places such as Natchez and Bass Pro Shops.

-- The rep. at Burris said their rings are very heavy duty and will hold up to Xtreme use.

I intend to get the Burris approved by my command staff and give it a shot on my Colt Tactical Carbine with 16-inch heavy barrel, Falcon Ergo Grip and Streamlight M3X long gun package. I have Meprolight night sights on it now and will compare the dot to the night sights in a low-light qualification.

This is a great forum. My other tools are an HK USP .45f, an old but trusty Remington 870 and an SW99 9mm compact for off duty.

Thanks for the info.

Quoted: ... but I was wondering if the Burris was actually designed for law enforcement use or for people who like to look "TACTICAL" at the range. ...

I picked up the SPOT sight which is a duplicate of the Burris unit (also made in Korea).  In the SPOT manual there is a list of warnings, do-s, and don't-s on the first page.  It specifically mentions the sight IS NOT intended for Law Enforcement/Military use.

The twp optics seem identical except for their markings (and that the SPOT comes with a mount).

I'm not sure if this helps you, but I'd be interested in knowing if the XTream has the same warning in it's user's manual, hopefull someone with the Burris can check the manual.

HerrJaegermeister, welcome to the site.  EXCELLENT and informative first post!  

I think an official ARFCOM "attaboy" is in order...but since I'm not official in ANY capacity, you'll just have to accept one from me.  

Quoted: A few days ago, I called Burris Optics and talked to a gentleman about the new Burris Extreme Tactical SpeedDot. I had some very direct questions about their new product that is being advertised as a "tactical sight" with full-page ads in magazines that include people in SWAT uniforms that clearly state police. -- The XTS-135 is not a Burris design from the ground up, but an existing red dot that Burris looked at, took apart and contracted to make to their own specifications. This is clearly different than the SPOT because the Burris has beefed-up internals, lenses and waterproofing, among other improvements. Another difference is a 3 min. dot vs. a 4 on the SPOT.

Quoted: I picked up the SPOT sight which is a duplicate of the Burris unit (also made in Korea). In the SPOT manual there is a list of warnings, do-s, and don't-s on the first page. It specifically mentions the sight IS NOT intended for Law Enforcement/Military use. The twp optics seem identical except for their markings (and that the SPOT comes with a mount).

Sounds to me like the SPOT is NOT a duplicate of the Burris for the reasons stated above.

I got my shortly after they came out.  I have had zero problems with it and I couldn't be happier.

A few more posts and someone will come along reaffirming that it is NOT an Aimpoint  

Anyone here have the manual handy for the XTS-135? Are there any warnings as to the usage as in the SPOT manual?

I would love to see a few more pics of the SpeedDot, including though the lenses to see the dot against a target.

If someone here has a flat-bed scanner, you could really help enlighten us all.

Also for a point of clarification, the Burris rep. was not even aware of the SPOT sight. He said the improvements were from the unnamed sight that they took apart and ruggedized.  I have also seen an ADCO sight in the most recent "The Blue Press" from Dillon that looks a lot like the SPOT.

The person who can name the manufacturer in South Korea gets an attaboy from me.

Thanks for letting me join in the fun

I think I found the South Korean company that is involved in the manufacture of the Burris and most likely the SPOT. Company is Jinbo E&C. check out the link below. Seems likely that Burris got their hands on one, took it apart and contracted their own specificaions.

http://ysk4225.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/10968033/Tactical_Dot_Sight_System.html

I'll post more when I get the information package from Burris.

Still making a call-out for scans of the Burris instruction manual.

cut & paste of my review on the XTS-135
------------------------------------------------------
I've had one for T&E for a week or so.
So far I like it very well.
It's been bounced around, subjected to rain and dirt, and used for the past 1000 rounds or so.
Still holds zero and works great.
I wrote a review over on another web site.
www.getoffthex.com
The UPS fairy dropped off a new Burris Xtreme Tactical SpeedDot red dot sight today.
Company line here: www.burrisoptics.com/tactical2.html
Initial impressions are very favorable.
Fit and finish are excellent, no blemishes, smooth finish, lens caps are sturdy and snap into place, all knobs and battery cover are aluminum. The rheostat clicks solidly and a nice feature is you can turn straight to the highest setting or the lowest from the off position. Country of origin is S.Korea.
It mounted up in an ARMS Comp II M68 perfectly. Sighting in was a breeze, lined it up with my irons and was about 1" off at 50 yards. A few clicks and it was dead on. The windage/elevation adjustments are very positive clicks (no twist and pray).
The 3 moa dot is extremely well defined, no fuzz or blur at all. The sight does have a slight blue tint but it doesn't effect the performance. I was shooting almost straight into the setting sun and had no washout issues and kept the dot on setting 6 out of 11. Setting 1 is bright, so NVG is definately out of the question. In a darkened room, setting 1 is bright enough to see, but isn't overpowering (although a slightly lower initial setting would be better IMO. On setting 11 I could look almost directly into the sun and still see the dot.
After zeroing, I ran a few mags through and did a few drills then returned to the bench. It held zero perfectly.
I plan on running a few thousand rounds through this gun/sight combo, along with a couple of carbine courses to test durability. I'm hoping for some shitty weather to test its waterproofing and fog resistance.
So far though it looks like it is a excellent optic for the price ($200). Definately a poor mans Aimpoint alternative.
-----------------------------------------------------
Since I wrote this, I have several hundred more rounds through it, as well as testing in rain and cool foggy weather. Still happy to report 100% satisfaction.

 Very good information.  I'm glad there was follow-up on this scope. I was also aware of the LE price on this one.  Guess there might be a benefit to being in this field after allHad  

Still waiting for my info packet from the company ... anyone here have the manual handy to see if there are any warnings as to usage?

I'd also love to see a few pics through the glass.

Thanks

No warnings in the Burris manual as to "plinker only" use.

Here is a pic through the XTreme, the fov is close to an Aimpoint (but the pic makes it look small).
The Burris is on setting 11 for the picture, but 6 is as high as I've gone during normal use.
Note the slight blue tint the optic has.
http://www.jammey.com/burris.jpg

Excellent! How do you have it mounted, on the Burris mount or something like a QRP or ARMS?

Dot quality looks great. Does the tint make any difference in low light? I work at night in our downtown area under mostly yellowish street lights.

This optic is looking like it may just be the ticket for my AR.

I'm using the ARMS mount.
The blue tint doesn't seem to make any difference under low light. I'll try it under my yellow streetlight tonight after it gets good and dark.
The dot in my picture is a bit fuzzy because it's turned on too bright for the photo.
In actual use it is extremely sharp and well defined. Actually a better dot than my Aimpoint Comp M2.

Thinking of which mount to use, would you folks go with; a center co-witness or a lower 1/3? Anyone have the Burris mounts which are supposed to be Xtreme and tactical at the same time? The center co-witness seems make the optic not look like it is too high, but does the 1" give a better uncluttered view vs. the 3/4 " ring.

An aside: I'm thinking up the next new Uber term to replace TACTICAL. Once everybody at the range is TACTICAL, how does one set himself apart as a true operator? The terms tactical and Xtreme are way too overused in marketing of gear.

Stealthical = stealthy plus tactical. I'm all about being sneaky and cool at the same time.
Mega-Tactical = going way beyond tactical. Hanging 10 pounds of crap on the AR.
Ubercal = short and to the point and eliminates the "Tacti"
Stratactical = the smart way to be TACTICAL, using strategy.
Nuketical = using nuclear power for the Surefire.
Fat-ass Tactical = your gear is so light and superior that having man tits and a pregnant man belly is no hinderance in being "high-speed, low-drag."

Please keep the Burris XTS-135 updates coming.
mk

Quoted: I think I found the South Korean company that is involved in the manufacture of the Burris and most likely the SPOT. Company is Jinbo E&C. check out the link below. Seems likely that Burris got their hands on one, took it apart and contracted their own specificaions. http://ysk4225.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/10968033/Tactical_Dot_Sight_System.html I'll post more when I get the information package from Burris. Still making a call-out for scans of the Burris instruction manual.

JINBO!!!!!!!

Haha, they are the Korean company who makes all the airsoft red dot sites also.

That is classic.  Shows you what marketing and repackaging does for you.

Quoted: S.P.O.T.  $150.00 and it comes w/ mount

Except SPOT is 4moa and they don't claim to be waterproof.
The Burris is listed as waterproof and is 3moa.

Quoted: Quoted: S.P.O.T.  $150.00 and it comes w/ mount Except SPOT is 4moa and they don't claim to be waterproof. The Burris is listed as waterproof and is 3moa.

You should also note the SPOT manual SPECIFICALLY warns against trusting this sight for the defense of life & limb.

Quoted: JINBO!!!!!!! Haha, they are the Korean company who makes all the airsoft red dot sites also. That is classic.  Shows you what marketing and repackaging does for you.

And your point is?
The "repackaging" comes with a Burris backed warranty and is built to Burris specs including shock resistance and waterproofing.
Hell Glock started out making shower curtain rings and shovels.
I don't care what their other product lines are, I look at the quality and performance of the product I am interested in.
If an inexpensive red dot performs at the level required why should someone spend another $200 for an Aimpoint?
Ohhhhhh yea I know why......... for the poser factor.

Quoted: If an inexpensive red dot performs at the level required why should someone spend another $200 for an Aimpoint? Ohhhhhh yea I know why......... for the poser factor.

Absolute dependability and battery life, I would guess.  What do I know, I still have a TacPoint on my rifle.

Would like to know what the battery life is on the Burris product (I just can't bear to say "Xtreme" or "tactical"), so TAG.

Quoted: Quoted: If an inexpensive red dot performs at the level required why should someone spend another $200 for an Aimpoint? Ohhhhhh yea I know why......... for the poser factor. Absolute dependability and battery life, I would guess.  What do I know, I still have a TacPoint on my rifle. Would like to know what the battery life is on the Burris product (I just can't bear to say "Xtreme" or "tactical"), so TAG.

I have never seen ANY optic that had "Absolute Dependability"....except maybe irons

Quoted: I have never seen ANY optic that had "Absolute Dependability"....except maybe irons

Those break too, sometimes.  I'm no AimPoint kool-aid drinker, but can see their perspective on why it's worth the extra $150-200. YMMV.

How much more durable is an Aimpoint?  It would have to last twice as long to justify the price for a plinker or recreational shooter. Will it last twice as long? Who knows.
The only time battery life matters is if you are weeks away from a Radio Shack, and your life depended on a functioning red dot.
For a military or hard use duty rifle, the Aimpoint is a better option because it has a well deserved reputation.
For a recreational shooter or an occasional use duty rifle the Burris should be more than adequate.

I have an Aimpoint M2 on my serious rifle, for the plinkers the Burris has been perfect so far.

I am going e-mail Burris Optics the link to this thread. Hopefully, one of their engineers or product reps will be able to add to the debate as to whether the XTS-135 is up to Law Enforcement/SWAT/SERT or use as a range plinker.

Another thought, look at the new Simmons Master Series of rifle scopes and how it relates to Jinbo. Simmons makes really low end .22 scopes found at Wal-Mart to some really solid hunting scopes that will last generations. The latest scopes are all made in the same facility in China that is owned by Meade Instruments.

In my specific case, the Burris XTS-135 would ride in the trunk and be subjected to 100+ heat in the summer and -30 in the winter. It would have to work while covering a K-9 officer on a track or surrounding a house with an armed suspect in rain and snow. Cops don't crawl in the mud and jump out of airplanes or SCUBA to a remote beach.  Range would nearly always be within 100 yards, most likely within the range of a residential yard from cover.

I just can't get myself to like the EOthingy.

Quoted: I am going e-mail Burris Optics the link to this thread. Hopefully, one of their engineers or product reps will be able to add to the debate as to whether the XTS-135 is up to Law Enforcement/SWAT/SERT or use as a range plinker.

I am sure you will get a completely unbiased answer as well, something we can all rely on.............

Quoted: Quoted: I am going e-mail Burris Optics the link to this thread. Hopefully, one of their engineers or product reps will be able to add to the debate as to whether the XTS-135 is up to Law Enforcement/SWAT/SERT or use as a range plinker. I am sure you will get a completely unbiased answer as well, something we can all rely on.............

It seems like there are those that don't want unbiased opinions from shooters who actually have this optic either...

 Hmmm.  No need for sarcasm Dace.  Reading through your posts it's evident that your mind has already been made up on this matter.  If it was some type of fly-by-night company I might be more in line to agree with you.  I don't think that Burris qualifies in that way.  I know quite a few people who have used Burris products including their speedots and have been quite happy with them.  Many I know have subjected their scopes through years of harsh winters, too many drops onto the frozen ground and general neglect and have still held up surprisingly well.  This is not a comparison to someone who might take it into combat in the middle east.  But let's be reasonable as to what any scope will be used for.  Herr was looking for a scope for general LE use and it might fit the bill for general patrol.  In fact may go through more or less most of the same rigors as people who hunt also.  Sitting in the trunk for extended periods of time and getting banged around,  extreme heat and cold, etc.  Then getting pulled out once in a while for qualifications or clearing the woods looking for a BG.  
 All I would say is lets see what a Burris rep might say if they choose to post.  He/she very well may give a very honest appraisal of their product.
Also, I'm sure Herr will give updates from time to time as to weather or not the scope is working as advertised.

I just got a really good reply from Burris today in my e-mail. It looks like Burris keeps testing and beating on it gear and it keeps going. I really appreciate their response.



Officer Koehler,

First and foremost we will not offer a product for extreme use in military and law enforcement if we didn’t feel it would hold up to the task! While the sight is imported by us using our specifications and requirements myself and other employees at Burris (some retired special ops) would not hesitate mounting the sight on our tactical rings in a high risk situation. Before any product is released by Burris extensive testing is done. For example, the XTS-135 was tested on Benelli slug guns for accuracy as well as several hundred rounds from various AR’s not to mention the testing individuals have completed for us using their own methods and fire arms. Articles should start hitting the stands in various magazines very soon.



I and another employee just returned home from a shoot some of you may know the I.T.R.C. in Gillett, WY where we tested our equipment in a simulated hostile environment. While our shooting abilities and overall physical condition was not equal to the old days we can strongly say that each item performed flawlessly.



The equipment we used for the shoot was as follows,



Sako TRG 42 .300 Win Mag. shooting 178gr Hornady A-Max at 2960fps. 3x-12x-50mm XTR with Ballistic Mil-Dot.
Springfield Armory M1A .308 Win. shooting 168gr A-Max. 3x-12x-50mm XTR with Ballistic Mil-Dot
DPMS AR .223 shooting Wolf 62gr, Black Hills 50 & 55gr, 1.5x-6x-40mm XTR and XTS-135.
Beretta 92, 9mm shooting Remington FMJ and Hornady FMJ
B-1500 laser range finding binocular
16x-Image Stabilizing Binocular


Those that are familiar with the shoot know that hundreds of rounds are fired in a short amount of time moving from one shooting station to another and accurate first shot placement being of the highest importance.

For the high intensity course we used the AR with the XTS-135 shooting just shy of 500 rounds in about 25 minutes from various shooting positions and varying target ranges including a quick ride in a pick-up bed shooting at passing targets. Shots properly taken were 100% accurate except when using the Wolf ammunition which was to be expected at the longer range targets. Once we returned home all guns were again range tested for any point of impact movement. No impact movement was experienced in all cases.



From other participants of the shoot quite a bit of interest was generated by the new products we are offering this year and similar questions were asked. Simply put the field tests answered them especially when a number of optics and sights failed during the shoot for one reason or another.



Some of the above equipment is being used at home and overseas by military and private contractors and still to this day have not received negative or marginal feedback.



If you and anyone else on the web would like to ask us any questions please do not hesitate to ask so misinformation about our products is not spread throughout or shooting community.



Thank you,



Gordon Grashorn

Customer Service Manager





331 East 8th Street

Greeley, CO 80631

970-356-1670 Phone

970-356-8702 Fax

Seldom does a thread go by where someone inquires about an optic.  If that optic is not an Aimpoint, Eotech, ACOG, or Leupold, there are those that will immediately state that it is junk.   This is despite the fact that they NEVER handled one.  

I was probably one of the first people on this board to buy a Burris XTS-135.  I have owned Aimpoints and ACOG's in the past.  If I wanted another Aimpoint, I would have bought one.  The reason that I bought the Burris is because I have a Fullfield II that I really like.   I wanted to try the Burris on a rifle that I wasn't planning on going to war or defend my family with.  

I started to post my experiences with the sight in a thread a while ago.  I wanted to give an honest evaluation until I got so fed up with people coming in and bashing it because it wasn't an Aimpoint.  

There is no doubt that as far as red dots go, the Aimpoint and Eotech are the pinnacle.  As a matter of fact, I have an Aimpoint M2 on my "go to" carbine.  But if you want a good quality red dot that will more than withstand anything you throw at it when at the range, buy the Burris with confidence

Quoted: As a matter of fact, I have an Aimpoint M2 on my "go to" carbine.  But if you want a good quality red dot that will more than withstand anything you throw at it when at the range, buy the Burris with confidence

+1

Anyone know the approximate battery life of this model?  I checked the Burris website but it's not mentioned.  

Quoted: Anyone know the approximate battery life of this model?  I checked the Burris website but it's not mentioned.

The manual says 200+ hours.

Quoted: Quoted: Anyone know the approximate battery life of this model?  I checked the Burris website but it's not mentioned.   The manual says 200+ hours.

Has anybody tested this?

Got my info packet from Burris the other day and the specs for LE pricing. Getting things in order for dept. approval and then I will give it a try.

Has csgunworks had any success in talking to Mike at Burris?

Please keep personal experiences coming. I find real-life usage reports to have more weight than the upcoming gun rag write-ups.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone know the approximate battery life of this model?  I checked the Burris website but it's not mentioned.   The manual says 200+ hours. Has anybody tested this?

Well I've had 5, 2 hour range sessions, and it was turned on for 12 or so hours straight each day of a two day weekend and is still bright as day 1.
So I know it's good for 35 hours.

i need a red dot for my DSA Fn-Fal carbine. red dot will be mounted on a weaver/dust cover set up.
already got an M2 for my bush M4.  

would like a cheaper alternative for my Fal..strictly for recreational shooting.

Will the burris or the SPOT handle the 308 recoil?

Quoted: Quoted: Will the burris or the SPOT handle the 308 recoil? Make you a deal, if the SPOT doesn't make it I will replace and or refund your money. www.gandrtactical.com/spot.htm C4

WHOA!!!  You've lowered yourself to selling something "less" than an Aimpoint?

Will wonders never cease.

Eric

Quoted: It is a good plinking optic and is distant enough from the Aimpoint design. These meet my three reqs (quality, doesn't directly copy another established compay and isn't made in China)! C4

So where is the SPOT made, and by whom?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Eric

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Will the burris or the SPOT handle the 308 recoil? Make you a deal, if the SPOT doesn't make it I will replace and or refund your money. www.gandrtactical.com/spot.htm C4 WHOA!!!  You've lowered yourself to selling something "less" than an Aimpoint? Will wonders never cease. Eric These meet my three reqs (quality, doesn't directly copy another established compay and isn't made in China)! C4

Does the Burris fail any of these three?  Does the SPOT pass all three?

I have had my Burris at the range several different times under several different lighting conditions.  The sight worked flawlessly.  Coming from someone who has actually used one (as well as others), I have no problem relying on this sight

I think, I'd pay more to have Burris standing behind the warranty rather than "SPOT", but that's just me...

Quoted: Quoted: I think, I'd pay more to have Burris standing behind the warranty rather than "SPOT", but that's just me... Well I would prefer to trust a guy I know personally (rather than some corporation), but that's just me. C4

Having dealt personally with Burris in the past, I think I'll stay with them rather than your buddy.