Full page ad in the New York Times yesterday, taken out by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence united with the Million Mom March. Showing a large picture of a pre-ban M4A3 with a Phantom and a Harris bipod.

These www.stopthenra.com people are pretty rabid. I hope they don't hurt anyone.

I'm thinking of buying something from Bulls Eye just because of the ad. :)

WHen you buy something from them, make sure you sent the ANTi;s site an email letting them know you got the idea from thier site.

M4,

What cowards these people are.  I spent 5 min trying to find someplace to E'mail them a letter as you suggested, and maybe I just overlooked it, but I coudn't find one.  They really really want your money, but nothing else.  They want no input, just blind faith.

Oh well, what else is new about Lib's!!!!

I just wish they had a place to sign up so they would blacklist me.
Doc

Most of those anti sites dont have a publicly known email address bcause they get swamped by people like you and me :-D

I would think that Bullseye would be able to sue them for slander or defamation with a line like that....I hope they do. Thats uncalled for.

[b]Gee , I hope this doesn't use up too much
of their Bandwidth![/b]  [devil]

[img]http://www.stopthenra.com/images/content/pagebuilder/10929.jpg[/img]

why would any of you have sympathy for bullseye?

shady dealers set our cause back.

I know about BullsEye shady practices, but they're not the police.  The fault lies with the ATF.  Aren't they the police?  They should have done something about BullsEye years ago.

You people have NO idea how mad this makes me.

It takes an IDIOT to think that only big black guns can be used as a murder weapon.

Then again, the Brady bunch is full o' idiots...

Hey, why not post some ads of our own? The AWB Sunset website has some great ones to use![:)]

I live in the Puget Sound and I do most of my gun business in shops other than Bullseye. Simply because of their prices and that I've always gotten better value on my trade in's elsewhere.

Because they're being targeted by the media and the anti's I'd go make a few purchases if I had the money.

The problem was with the ATF. Besides, bullseye should be able to do business however they like. A criminal will always get a gun from someone (shop or private sale) somehow.

[/quote]

The problem was with the ATF. Besides, bullseye should be able to do business however they like. A criminal will always get a gun from someone (shop or private sale) somehow.[/quote]

I agree, I think that the liberals and probably many of you on this site cannot fathom how easy it would be for me to buy a stolen gun.  And Im not talking junk either, SIGs, Colt 45's, Glock 45's, Rugers, etc etc.  Iv'e never done it nor do I condone it, but so many younger people have these connections its unbelievable.

My only question is...

Is it acceptable for a gun shop not to know a gun is missing?

Come on.....they are a very high volume dealer. The percentage is extremely small...and they STOLE the bushy......sheeesh....

Now we even have guys on here thinking they are shady ...... oh brother

No more acceptable than a drug store to know a bottle of pills is missing, a car dealership to know a car is missing, a knife store to know a knife is missing. A huge percentage of deaths and murder is related to those items more so than "AW's"

All those items are deadly, but you dont see the hellish, "foaming at the mouth" attacks on those items and their dealers. Besides, the gun was stolen.

The difference, whether we like it or not, is irresponsibility with guns will lead to the demise of our rights quicker than anything.  Personally, it irks me to no end that drunk drivers only get a slap on the wrist when it's more likely I'll be killed by one of them than a criminal with a gun.  It also amazes me that even with kids running around with guns they find in the home people still leave their guns unsecure.  How about the guy at the range that sweeps everybody near him with his muzzle?  Looking at some gun owners it's a wonder we can own anything at all.  You can piss and moan all you want, but it's an attitude like yours that will contribute to the loss of our rights more than anything.  

And should have been reported as such.

No, my attitude is simply opposite of the gun grabber attitude.  If a gun is stolen it is by law that it needs to be reported, but there are MANY things that get stolen everyday that are just as deadly, but there is no such requirements on the dealer/seller to report.  Not like the stringent requirements on guns, because guns are hated and feared.  

Besides, the ATF were just as liable for their mishandeling of the paperwork [over time] comming from Bullseye. The ATF should have been audited right along with Bullseye.

Bradd, my point is this:

The gun grabbers want accountability and punishment for gun dealers/owners FAR ABOVE AND BEYOND that of normal requirements for sellers/owners of products [i]they[/i] use.


Edited to add:  I have been in their shop several times.  They are a huge dealer with an indoor range.  ANY seller that deals in the volume he does will loose product somewhere, and fail to report it, or report it and the "authorities" loose it in their paper work shuffle.  Bulleye is only getting the attacks because they want to blame the actions of a BAD PERSON WHO KILLED PEOPLE on them!!!  The gun didn't do it, and the owner of Bullseye didn't do it!  The disproportionate bad press Bullseye gets is because he is a [naughtyword]gun dealer[/naughtyword].

I hate to see anyone in the gun business be targeted like this, I worked at Bullseye briefly and have a long time association with them personally.

I also worked for one of the other high volume sales gunshops in the northwest, it can get pretty hectic in a rush.

I now work at a slower paced customer service orientated store in Tacoma.

I believe in supporting the shooting sports industry, It is certainly not my place to pass judgement on anyone.

I hope all the best for Brian and his people, in fact I think I will drop by and pick something up this weekend from them to show my support.

We all need to stick together.

Fritze Out

I understand where you're coming from and you did make me stop and think.  I am a very strong proponent of gun responsibilty and tend to be a little biased.

Think of this, though.  You have to register your car, you have to pass a test to drive it, you have to possess a driver's license, and you must have insurance.  The auto industry is always held accountable for irresponsibilty (remember Firestone?).

You need a prescription for drugs from the pharmacy.  Doctors are always held accountable for lost prescription pads or fraudulent prescriptions.  Pharmacies don't have to report stolen drugs because there is no way to trace them.

If anything, there is less acountability with guns.  You don't need a license to own one (in most states  [;)]).  You can lie on the 4473.  And there obviously is no punishment for not reporting stolen guns.

"You need a prescription for drugs from the pharmacy. Doctors are always held accountable for lost prescription pads or fraudulent prescriptions. Pharmacies don't have to report stolen drugs because there is no way to trace them."

DEA nor our state hold doctors accountable for lost prescription pads. Pharmacies are required by federal law to report theft of schedule drugs to DEA and the local authorities. They must account for all schedules drug received. Now some of them have high amount of busted bottles, contaminated pills. It is hard for them to do this now since plastic bottles have been the standard. They are supposed to sweep up the broken bottle w/pills and save the remains for the next DEA audit.

Ridiculously high standards, beaurocracy and bans are created because gun ownership is the only item guaranteed by sovereign law.  They hate that it is written as an individual right and not something that can be taken away on an emotional knee-jerk whim when something goes wrong, or when bad things happen.
If there truly is less accountability for guns other than for committing crimes and doing murder, then everything would be A-OK in my book, but it isn’t that way.

Did Bullseye knowingly hand a gun to a murderer; did they turn their heads when they saw someone stealing it?  No.  Did they made a mistake? Maybe.  
Still, with all the beaurocracy ATF and gun legislation imposes, failure to report a gun stolen would not have saved those people in DC.  
The law and the agencies created to deal with guns should be there instead to deal with the things people [b]do with guns,[/b] and carry out their punishment immediately instead of housing them forever and a day at taxpayers expense.  

Should Bullseye tighten up their practices, sure they should.  Should they be closed down and called murderers....no.
Should new legeslation, laws and bans be imposed...no.

The gungrabbers are not putting ads in the paper picturing those filthy murderers and what should happen to them (death).  Instead, in a hail of hypocrisy and injustice they target us.

Anyone notice something funny about the M4 in the pic?  Namely the uppers seems to be backwards, as well as the bipod, but the lower seems just fine.

Ok, enough nit picking and to the issue.  Organizations like "stop the NRA" are comprised of a bunch of idiots who have no morals, and have no accountability.  Thus, anytime something happens, they bitch and moan and "its _____'s fault", but not sweet, innocent Lee Boyd Malvo, "nooo, Malvo was pressured into doing it, its not really his fault".  Those bastards can burn in hell for all I care.  Better yet, hand the family some ARs and let them have it.  An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.  Maybe I can sue the "Stop the NRA" dumbasses for destruction of my precious brain cells.  Sure, I read the ad, but its not my fault.  It was a deadly assault murder ad.  

Ghost

Any discrepancy in their bound books and the BATF can shut them down in the blink of an eye.

I spoke with the owner of a gun shop (Lone Star Guns, Plano Texas) who had an employee who erroneously recorded a rifle as a pistol in his bound book. I believe him when he says it was a mistake. In any case the BATF found the error during an inspection, shut him down for several months, confiscated all his guns (over $100,000 worth) and has never returned them. He is still fighting a court battle to get them back, more than a year later.

A missing gun is a VERY BIG DEAL for a gun dealer. (although that still doesn't merit the sort of propaganda seen in this anti-gun ad.)

I live near Bullseye and have been in their shop more times than I can count.

Bullseye was one of my favorite shops because they had literaly several hundred rifles in racks that were open to the public. The policy was to ask to handle them but I can easily see how they when busy could have had a rifle stolen. I remember that Bushy sitting on the counter and handled it myself.

I see no difference between any of the gunshows where there are literaly several thousand weapons out in the open and Bullseye's old store policy.

Bullseye was just unfortunate that the rifle was stolen from their shop. The stores policies have changed and there are no evil rifles available to be handled without supervision now if that makes a difference.

I find it ironic that Bullseye was audited via the ATF yet never closed their doors. Consider that if the ATF found what the anti's are claiming that they probably would have lost the right to sell.

I would like to know where they get the two hundred fifty some number for "lost" guns. One of the local papers were running these kind of articles claiming the same type of thing and when I asked about it I was told that the media was way off base by those that worked there.

I don't think the circumstances matter where the firearm came from. The point is that the anti's are scared that their precious ban is going to go away and they would like to see more... no let's make that any legislation that would back their cause due to the fact that there is no way in hell that new piece of shit that Frankenstein put forward will pass.

Funny that their still in business after all that shit. Maybe people can read between the lines of this crap after all.

bosifus

Looks like the negative was reversed.

The ad is wrong in its main premise that the shop would be protected from litigation if the new law passes.  The point of the new law is to prevent frivolous law suits, not prevent law suits when there is a clear case of negligence i.e. a manufacturer sells a defective product and someone is injured as a result etc.  In this case, it could be argued that the store was negligent, not only for loosing the weapon in the first place but failing to notice or report it after.  Whilst the arguement is correct in that even if they had reported the loss, it wouldn't have saved anybody's life, incidents like these give the anti's another reason to attack the industry.  The fact remains that we all need to do our bit to prevent guns falling into the hands of criminals - they're going to get them anyway, let's just make sure it's not from us.  

What do you know about their 'shady practices'? [b]PROOF[/b] Show me the money, fill your fucking hand. The ATF lived there for months, but never did say 'shady'. There is a majhor difference between sloppy and shady. If you know different, you should contact them. Who should have done something? Michigan? WTF? When is the last time YOU were in Bullseye?




Your implication (again from MI?) that Bullseye is a 'shady dealer' also needs to have some fucking [b]proof[/b]...



[rant]Speaking as one who [rises to accept applause] made the dignity list of 'multiple handgun purchases at one time' and had my paperwork taken to DC (source:Seatle Times), I never saw any 'shady' practices. They did shitty paperwork, as do a lot of people. Hell, you two dropped shitty accusations with [b]no facts[/b]. I should personally call Brian and let him sue you since you are with the Brady Bunch on this one.

Either you are with us or against us, know your role, shut your hole and go back to DUH....:finger:

In situations like this, the smart thing for bullseye to get those gun haters off their back would be to: Close shop, appease gun haters.  Open new larger shop one block away with new name called "Homeland Security Firearm Supply" or some politically correct bull like that, no one will touch that name.

[sarcasm mode on] Don't you think that's asking too much?  I mean, BATF would have to compare the inventory list to what's actually in the store.  They would get all confused and flustered and stuff.[sarcasm mode off]    

I like that. A lot. :)

See, here is the real problem with liberal theology- There is no continuity.

The reason there is no continuity is because they are not honest with themselves or each other. They don't really care about murder. If they did, they would be taking out full page ads persecuting those that commit infanticide at abortuarys all over our counrty.

What Hitler did to the Jews like spit in a rain barrel compared to what we have done to ourselves since Roe v. Wade.

Not to hijack the thread, but I gotta agree with KirkP's statement. We certainly went far and beyond hitler's murder count.



[b]"Total abortions from 1973 to 1998 -- 38,010,378"[/b]
[url=http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/aboramt.html]Source[/url]

The owner of Bullseye has "lost" guns before.
This time he "lost" his FFL.
He "transfered" ownership of the store to one of his friends with a FFL and Bullseye is still open.

From what I understand there is an ex-Seattle division ATF agent probably riding a desk in bum-fuck, nowheresville.

Tweak might know a bit more. [;)]

More info here: [url]http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/98766_atf06.shtml[/url]

This is from Dave Workman of [url]www.Gunweek.com[/url]:

Then there is this from the Tacoma Tribune.
[url]http://www.tribnet.com/news/crime_safety/story/2182679p-2260239c.html[/url]

ATF says report incorrect on Bull's Eye guns
Sean Robinson; The News Tribune

(Published 12:30AM, November 21st, 2002)

Recent reports that Bull's Eye Shooter Supply in Tacoma is missing records for 340 weapons are wrong, according to a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

[b]"That number is not accurate," said Martha Tebbenkamp, ATF spokeswoman.[/b]

Tebbenkamp would not say whether the correct number is lower or higher. She would not divulge any other details related to the ATF investigation of the Tacoma gun shop, and said the agency does not release results of its investigations.

The News Tribune has filed a Freedom of Information Act request for results of current and past ATF audits and compliance reports of Bull's Eye. Federal officials have denied the request, saying it could hamper a continuing enforcement investigation. The newspaper is appealing the agency's denial.

U.S. Sens. Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray also have urged the ATF to release the results of prior audits at Bull's Eye.

Tebbenkamp said the field investigation of Bull's Eye was completed about 10 days ago. To date, the agency has not reported any violations by the shop or proposed any sanctions.

ATF agents investigated Bull's Eye following the arrest of serial sniper suspects John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo. Ballistics evidence linked the Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle found with Muhammad to a number of the shootings.

The weapon was shipped to Bull's Eye on July 2 of this year. It remains unclear how Muhammad obtained it.

Earlier this month, Bull's Eye managers filed a theft report with the Tacoma Police Department, saying they first noticed the rifle was missing in late October, when ATF agents inquired about it. Bull's Eye owner Brian Borgelt has offered a $2,000 reward for information about the rifle's disappearance. The shop did not report any other thefts or break-ins in the past year.

In the days following the arrest, ATF agents investigated Bull's Eye, searching for records related to the weapon. Several media reports said records for 150 to 340 weapons were unaccounted for.

Borgelt strongly denied those reports.

Sean Robinson 253-597-8486
[email protected]

What really chaps my a__ is that the meatheads who committed the crime could just as well have used an H&R single shot.  But the antis want to make it out as an "evil gun" from an "evil store".

All of the evil in this matter lies in the hearts and minds of the two murderers who at this moment are in the process of getting a "fair" trial.

The price we pay for being the good guys is that a lot of ignorant people will characterize us as criminals in our own homes.

While I certainly cannot condone sloppy record keeping, it is silly to sue these folks.  It is akin to suing a car dealer because a drunk hotwired a mustang and plowed through a crowd of people.  I guess that now the victim of the more serious crime in a continuing string of offenses is now empowered to sue the victim of the less serious crime.

If Brian's shop is found to have committed negligence that allowed the rifle to be acquired by the snipers, than he will likely face charges and lawsuits and there is nothing the NRA lawsuit bill will do to change that.

Until then, Brian is a business owner, who's accounting and inventory methods are under question and it is alleged that he has either phyically misplaced or via paperwork, lost track of, a number of firearms.  This is the same charge that can be brought against the FBI, BATFE and a number of other federal law enforcement agencies.

Congress' GAO investigations have concluded that these agencies have lost track of, and in many cases physically lost, hundreds of firearms, including such weapons that are restricted for law enforcement use.

I won't hold my breath waiting for Sarah Brady and company to take out an advertisement attacking federal law enforcement.

It may be noble to say that bad actors on the part of the pro-gun side will only harm us.  The sad fact is that no matter how law-abiding our side is, we will be maligned in the press and the liberals will work to take away our liberty.

For that, I give them no quarter on subjects like Bullseye.  Even if Brian left a rack of rifles in the parking lot over night with a neon sign reading "take a look at these unsecured firearms", the fact is that a criminal stole them, then transported them across state lines to be used in the act of murder.

Blaming Bullseye and Bushmaster is like suggesting that cup holders in cars are responsible for drunk driving.

Anyone want to hazard a guess how much crap the Army and N.G. units have "misplaced" over the past 15 years. Granted, people got their tails in a crack over it, but 90% never showed up, (and I'm talking about a lot more heavy duty firepower than 1 Bushmaster).Maybe the ATF should check out the military or vice versa.

From the "IT COULD HAPPEN TO ANYBODY" catagory:

SWAT Truck Emptied, Then Torched  
     FBI Weapons Cache Stolen  

     By Brian Hartman ABCNEWS.com  

     Thieves stole, torched and emptied an FBI special operations van left parked outside a Memphis,
     Tenn., hotel, looting a cache of high-powered assault weapons, grenade launchers, bullet-proof
     shields and tear-gas guns. M-16 military rifles, shotguns and ammunition were among the take
     Tuesday in what FBI officials called a very serious theft. FBI officials are teaming up with Memphis
     police to blanket the area and recover the stockpile of weapons.  

     The burned-out shell of the GMC suburban van, emptied of its cargo, was found early Tuesday by
     Memphis authorities. Included in the stolen cache were bulletproof shields with FBI logos and
     various sidearms. The van, said FBI special agent John Hancock,belonged to one of a half-dozen
     FBI special weapons and tactics squads in Memphis for a regional training exercise. Agents from
     Arkansas had parked the vehicle outside an East Memphis hotel before it was stolen, he said. The
     vehicle was recovered 10 miles from the hotel.  

     Agent Downplays Theft  

     It's an extremely serious situation, Hancock said. These weapons will be recovered and we will find
     out who committed the theft and we will not stop until the investigation is settled. When asked how
     such a theft could occur, Hancock said, These weapons could be stolen from a sporting goods
     store. Would you ask that same question of the sporting-goods store dealer? About 500 officers
     from various law enforcement agencies and the military were gathering in Memphis for crisis
     response training.  

     The incident comes as the FBI, embroiled in controversy and criticism for much of the past year, is
     basking in praise for its investigation of Timothy McVeigh, convicted Monday on all 11 counts in
     the Oklahoma City bombing. Agents had hoped the verdict might dispel criticism of the bureau
     stemming from a Justice Department report about the work of its world-renowned crime laboratory
     and from its failure to solve last summer s Olympics bombing in Atlanta and two subsequent blasts
     there.  

     The bureau also took heat for pursuing the wrong man, Richard Jewell, for three months in the
     Olympics case and trying to trick him into waiving his right to counsel during an interview. Three
     agents are being disciplined for their work on that case.  

     FBI Director Louis J. Freeh likely will be questioned about the Memphis episode at his previously
     scheduled appearance Wednesday before a Senate committee conducting oversight of the
     bureau.  

     The Associated Press contributed to this story.

There is one note that I don't believe has been touched on.  If the rifle had been reported stolen the day or a couple days after it actually went missing, would the ATF, FBI, local PD have somehow miraculously (sp?) caught Mohammed? Was it equipped with OnStar?  I personally think the rifle would have been found on the same date regardless.  I think the fantastic Chief Moose should be held responsible for some of the deaths for putting all his eggs in the FBI profile basket.