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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/26/2006 7:20:28 PM EST
I have noticed over the last few months more and more auctions such as the one I have posted below. Vendors are coming along with bulk lots of military optics and other items for sale. As a current member of the National Guard, I can tell by the Pelican case that these Aimpoints were issued items - just as we were issued in Iraq from my unit armorer.

I know for a fact that the military does not simply auction off or give away these optics - as they are controlled items. If they are found to be unserviceable, broken, worn out, scratched up, etc - they are returned to Aimpoint and refurbished or replaced as part of their government contract. These are later returned to the military supply chain and re-issued.

I have also noticed the same thing with SAPI plates, Interceptor vests, SINGARS radios, and other controlled items. People are coming up with alot of this surplus - but the fact of the matter is that it's not classified as surplus yet. Its either refurbished, refitted, replaced, or given to the Iraqi Security Forces.

If these sales are not legit, then we are all losing. The citizen is paying taxes to cover replacement costs of these items. Additionally, there are alot of soldiers out there without these optics because their unit is on a waiting list for them. Veteran soldiers returning from the conflict (at least in my unit) end up with mysterious 'statements of charges' for items they know that they turned in at the demob station - meaning that charges are deducted from their paychecks for missing issued items, even though they turned eveything in. It all seems a little crooked to me.

Anyone elses thoughts/experience/opinions on the matter?

Lot of 10 Military Aimpoint Optics
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:33:53 PM EST
United states, united states : Location
1 feed back

Who ever bids on these is risking loosing his pants.

I agree stolen US property.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:45:55 PM EST
This doesn't surprise me. Just look at all the MRE cases for sale on Ebay. A lot of them come from locations near military bases. It doesn't take much to grab a case or two of MREs, throw them in you car and take them home, then sell them for a tidy profit on Ebay. When you're a lower enlisted soldier not making a whole lot of cash, the lure is tempting.

While I was deployed, my unit was on the ball when it came to accountable items (night vision, red-dot sights, NBC equipment, etc). But the smaller stuff? It all disappeared as the hand reciepts started to get lost. Sure-fire lights, knives and bayonets, MOLLE gear... all that stuff vanished upon redeployment.

A lot of people involved in Iraq are making money on the side, and some of them are from the .mil.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:54:12 PM EST
Can't you just post a question on EBay like , "That looks just the bulk pack of Aimpoints my NG unit got. Where are these sourced from?"
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:56:50 PM EST
stolen. its sad that people havt to steal from uncle sam to make a buck.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:58:11 PM EST
I'd say email ebay and explain how it's stolen from the military.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 8:10:23 PM EST
I'd say definately stolen - he is looking to get rid of them FAST. I mean, 10 Aimpoints on a 3-day auction with no reserve and no location given? He might as well Photoshopped a big STOLEN FROM US MILITARY on the photos.

You figure if he cleaned them up and added an inexpensive mount/covers to each, he could sell them for around $400 or more a pop. He is wanting to dump them quick, so he is gonna take the loss. He might get around $2000.00 for the lot - then next week, some other seller will have them up for a $350.00 Buy It Now price making a nice little profit - all thanks to our tax dollars.

So, it's ok to sell obviously stolen government issue items on eBay. But by God, don't try to sell a high-cap mag or show a picture of a firearm.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 9:46:09 PM EST
I think you are all jumping to conclusions as you really dont know all the facts.
What I know is a lot of soldiers purchased some of there own equipment. The case that you say is issued with the scope can be purchased by anyone on the market, Its not like the guy has 10 cases to go with the scopes.Looks like he found a hardcase that all ten scopes fit in for shipping.

It could be that this may be from a Police department that is doing an upgrade.

As for the way the military gets there scopes, I have seen the scopes packed in a plan white box with no markings, just foam cut out for the scope to fit in. This was a factory box sent to the military and I have also seen this same packaging offered to the public in the same manor.
Just an over run of product that the military did not purchase everything the vender had so he moved it to the public to get his money back.

Lighten up a little. I have seen more money wasted by the Gov't on crap that no one has said anything about.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 9:48:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 10:06:19 PM EST
group buy?
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 11:49:46 PM EST
Let's be the devil's advocate here in response to an earlier post:

The case he is offering is the exact same type of Pelican case that we dumped our Aimpoints into when we turned them in before coming home. Our armorer had quite a few of these cases. We were issued our Aimpoints in the white boxes, but ask me where my box is now. Hadji probably used it for cooking fuel a long time ago.

Notice how much dirt is on these optics? I'd wager that your local police department takes a little better care of their equipment than this. I know because I am employed in law enforcement myself. I am unaware of a department that upgrades every optic on their force, most of the guys I know buy their optics personally. The department gives you the rifle, but anything else, you are going to be buying. This is probably different on larger departments, but then we come back to the wonderful condition of the optics themselves. Optics just don't get that nice unforgettable shade of Middle Eastern desert tan crud stuck in the knobs and seals anywhere else.

I'd also wager your normal AR15.com patron takes better care of their equipment as well. I imagine not many guys/girls on here would let their $400-$500 optic get as trashed as they are in the photo. I know that speaking for myself and a few others; our weapons are probably cleaner than our shorts are.

The seller has one feedback on a pretty new eBay account. This could be a coincidence, or it could be that he has established a new account for the sole purpose of unloading these optics. Strange that he does not list a location to calculate shipping...

Why a do a short 3-day auction that is ending on a weekend evening? Every eBayer knows that you do not end an auction on a weekend night - cause not many people are home, and if they are home, they are spending time with their families. Also, if you have something you want to sell for high dollar, you would typically want to run a longer auction to get more exposure. More exposure = more bidder interest. Even your eBay beginning knows this.

The seller obviously knows the value of these optics - or at least he says so in his listing. Common sense would be to sell them one at a time because he is going to make three times the money that he would selling them as a bulk lot. WTF? Is he just wanting to give someone a great deal so they can turn around and make money on them? If so, this guy is making a gesture that would really make Jesus proud - cause he is literally throwing away money.

I'd have to say if he was a new vendor getting really good buys on surplus, then he has a really funny way of making money on his first sale. He will end up losing a considerable amount of money for no justifiable reason. If he enough brains to seek out and purchase government/police department disposed Aimpoints - then I hope like hell he would know how to make money on them.

In fact, there are only two logical routes to look at with all things considered:

1. The optics are stolen and he wants to get rid of them fast.
2. The optics are either non-functional/cloned junk that the seller intends on unloading to some poor schmuck as the real deal.

Could the optics be legit? I can agree that its possible. But I personally would wager looking at the big picture they are not.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:56:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By septhael:
Let's be the devil's advocate here in response to an earlier post:

The case he is offering is the exact same type of Pelican case that we dumped our Aimpoints into when we turned them in before coming home. Our armorer had quite a few of these cases. We were issued our Aimpoints in the white boxes, but ask me where my box is now. Hadji probably used it for cooking fuel a long time ago.

Notice how much dirt is on these optics? I'd wager that your local police department takes a little better care of their equipment than this. I know because I am employed in law enforcement myself. I am unaware of a department that upgrades every optic on their force, most of the guys I know buy their optics personally. The department gives you the rifle, but anything else, you are going to be buying. This is probably different on larger departments, but then we come back to the wonderful condition of the optics themselves. Optics just don't get that nice unforgettable shade of Middle Eastern desert tan crud stuck in the knobs and seals anywhere else.

I'd also wager your normal AR15.com patron takes better care of their equipment as well. I imagine not many guys/girls on here would let their $400-$500 optic get as trashed as they are in the photo. I know that speaking for myself and a few others; our weapons are probably cleaner than our shorts are.

The seller has one feedback on a pretty new eBay account. This could be a coincidence, or it could be that he has established a new account for the sole purpose of unloading these optics. Strange that he does not list a location to calculate shipping...

Why a do a short 3-day auction that is ending on a weekend evening? Every eBayer knows that you do not end an auction on a weekend night - cause not many people are home, and if they are home, they are spending time with their families. Also, if you have something you want to sell for high dollar, you would typically want to run a longer auction to get more exposure. More exposure = more bidder interest. Even your eBay beginning knows this.

The seller obviously knows the value of these optics - or at least he says so in his listing. Common sense would be to sell them one at a time because he is going to make three times the money that he would selling them as a bulk lot. WTF? Is he just wanting to give someone a great deal so they can turn around and make money on them? If so, this guy is making a gesture that would really make Jesus proud - cause he is literally throwing away money.

I'd have to say if he was a new vendor getting really good buys on surplus, then he has a really funny way of making money on his first sale. He will end up losing a considerable amount of money for no justifiable reason. If he enough brains to seek out and purchase government/police department disposed Aimpoints - then I hope like hell he would know how to make money on them.

In fact, there are only two logical routes to look at with all things considered:

1. The optics are stolen and he wants to get rid of them fast.
2. The optics are either non-functional/cloned junk that the seller intends on unloading to some poor schmuck as the real deal.

Could the optics be legit? I can agree that its possible. But I personally would wager looking at the big picture they are not.


Good post. This guy needs to be taken in.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:17:51 AM EST
www.cid.army.mil/


crime.tips@belvoir.army.mil

E-mail the E-Bay link to the U.S. Army CID, they will handle it....
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 11:15:41 AM EST
this is a sight used by the military, but not only sold to the military. most units engrave serial #s into sensitive items.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 11:26:40 AM EST
Could it be that some reserve unit that was called up purchased these with discretionary funds?

Now that they are back they are not on their TO&E and they can't really keep them and are trying to recover the funds for whatever again discretionary spending?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 12:17:06 PM EST
Stolen Gov property and EBay during a time of War should not be a big shock and I don't find it hard to Believe. Lots of Troops getting tons of gear that ends up at home. It's Unfortunate, Waste is high during a war.. lots of stuff falls thru the cracks.

Equipment exchanges and Auction sights like Ebay just make it easier as everyone is more "Anonymous"

And the Guys who do it don't think it's a "Big deal" because they can always justify there "petty" theft by comparing it to all the "Big" waste dollars they see happen in various units.

That's why the phrase "Caveat Emptor" was invented.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:09:29 PM EST
Dime dropped with CID.

I don't GAF what rationalization anyone would offer. If this is the fencing of stolen military property, they need to go down. Hard.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:24:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2006 2:30:55 PM EST by septhael]
Well, something is strange is going on with that Aimpoint listing. Earlier today it was bid up to $1000.00 for a short time. Then, I just checked it again, and all of the bids have been cancelled, but the lot is still up for auction. It's back to $100.00 now.

Check it out:

investorsc (300) Cancelled: US $131.00
Explanation: wrong bid Bid: Oct-25-06 23:53:51 PDT
Cancelled: Oct-27-06 15:50:57 PDT

steveceleste (2721) Cancelled: US $100.00
Explanation: wrong bid Bid: Oct-25-06 21:43:29 PDT
Cancelled: Oct-27-06 15:51:04 PDT

s1wl (172) Cancelled: US $550.00
Explanation: wrong bid Bid: Oct-27-06 04:31:11 PDT
Cancelled: Oct-27-06 15:50:35 PDT

cpl03 (312) Cancelled: US $575.00
Explanation: wrong bid Bid: Oct-27-06 06:25:46 PDT
Cancelled: Oct-27-06 15:50:28 PDT

excjac (1) Cancelled: US $1,000.00
Explanation: wrong bid Bid: Oct-27-06 03:38:56 PDT
Cancelled: Oct-27-06 15:50:19 PDT

clive908 (16) Cancelled: US $510.00
Explanation: wrong bid Bid: Oct-27-06 02:18:08 PDT
Cancelled: Oct-27-06 15:50:42 PDT

aaron5705 (9) Cancelled: US $400.00
Explanation: wrong bid Bid: Oct-26-06 04:08:45 PDT
Cancelled: Oct-27-06 15:50:49 PDT

Funny thing is that if you log in and look at the bid history - ALL of the bidders cancelled their bids within a minute of each other and gave the EXACT same reason - wrong bid. When cancelling a bid, you have to enter the reason into a text box. I find it very hard to believe that 10 people would all put the words wrong bid into that text box! Looks sorta like shill bidding or something else weird going on. Unless of course eBay cancelled the bids. Who can say?

Definately going to keep an eye on this. Should prove to be interesting.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:42:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2006 2:43:12 PM EST by tangeant]
The mil supply system works in mysterious ways....


Quite possible they were excess to a unit and were sent to DRMO, sometimes you try and save the govt money and turn items FOB to supply but they won't take them back and if they do they just send it to DRMO because it is too much of a red tape hassle to return it into the supply chain and they can't carry excess items in inventory. So excess stuff gets thrown in dumpster, sent to DRMO or walks out gate .....



Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:47:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cyclic240B:
www.cid.army.mil/


crime.tips@belvoir.army.mil

E-mail the E-Bay link to the U.S. Army CID, they will handle it....


I just did to Army CID and NCIS.

Fuckers
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:50:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By tangeant:
The mil supply system works in mysterious ways....


Quite possible they were excess to a unit and were sent to DRMO, sometimes you try and save the govt money and turn items FOB to supply but they won't take them back and if they do they just send it to DRMO because it is too much of a red tape hassle to return it into the supply chain and they can't carry excess items in inventory. So excess stuff gets thrown in dumpster, sent to DRMO or walks out gate .....




Yep. We used to use DRMO a lot when our budget was tight.

Once we cleaned out CONEX boxes. You should have seen the stuff we sent to DRMO!
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 3:07:22 PM EST
another devils advocate point, this is the person's only listing.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 3:35:33 PM EST

My guess that this Ebay auction is just going to go "Poof" and disappear.


None of us will ever know what happened.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 5:15:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 5:30:54 PM EST
My unit in Iraq could have used those on our M16A4s.

Not everyone was issued an M68. Most had to make-do with Irons or with personally bought optics.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:23:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By GulDuCal:
My unit in Iraq could have used those on our M16A4s.

Not everyone was issued an M68. Most had to make-do with Irons or with personally bought optics.


What kind of unit?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:54:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2006 10:22:27 PM EST by Cyclic240B]

Originally Posted By GulDuCal:
My unit in Iraq could have used those on our M16A4s.

Not everyone was issued an M68. Most had to make-do with Irons or with personally bought optics.


Which is why I wrote to, and then posted the CID link for others to do the same. Somebody goes without, somewhere down the food chain, when shitbags do stuff like that. So if it is a .mil type, may the powers that be create the position, then send their ass straight to a permanent one person OP in the middle of Fallujah.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 9:26:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2006 11:53:47 PM EST by GulDuCal]

Originally Posted By Phoebus:
What kind of unit?


Combat Engineers.

The Army in all its wonderful wisdom decided we didn't need M68s for everyone, or they just didn't have any more to spare. We (company and through Bn S4) tried to get more M68s but were denied. Myself and the supply SGT even tried ordering ACOGs, but of course that got shot-down as well. At least our shipment of paintball guns was approved.

Link Posted: 10/28/2006 5:33:37 AM EST

The seller ended this listing early because of an error in the listing.


I bet toysallmine recieved an interesting email.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 5:46:11 AM EST
I mailed the seller asking him directly if the units were stolen, and a while later the auction was removed...
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:12:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aahhyes68:

The seller ended this listing early because of an error in the listing.


I bet toysallmine recieved an interesting email.


Welp, if they were legit' then they would not have pulled the ad. So Toysallmine must be fealing some heat right about now.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:19:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 8:20:36 AM EST by JC_]
I can assure you that if you buy something on ebay that belongs to Uncle Sam, they will come and get it. Hopefully for you, you asked the seller via email (and have their reply) if it was legit proving that you did not knowingly buy stolen goods.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 11:07:50 AM EST

I didn't try to contact that dirtbag, nor would I knowingly buy stolen goods.

I don't know how anyone derived that from my post .......
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 11:10:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 11:13:53 AM EST by JC_]
I was speaking in general terms, addressing everyone and not you in particular. I should have been more clear.

I bought an item on ebay and when I asked, I was told that the seller had the original receipt. Well... turns out he did not... I was out just over 2K when it was all over and he is making little rocks out of big ones... I did not have any trouble other than loosing my cash. Who says you cannot buy experience?
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