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Posted: 1/5/2005 10:13:58 PM EDT
Decided to build one finally. I'd like some feedback from you guys as to this being a good combo. Here it goes: either a Rock River or LMT  lower, complete with stock; Bushmaster A4 upper; DPMS bolt & carrier (chromed); & either a Colt SP1 20" barrel 1-12 twist or E.R. Shaw M4 16" barrel 1-9 twist. I think this is a good setup, but I would like to get some feedback & advice. Right now, I'm looking at about $850. Thanks in advance to anyone who helps.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 10:36:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2005 10:37:23 PM EDT by tisfortexas]
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=202355&page=5

M4 5.56mm lower half with 6 position collapsable stock assembly $215
Is yours any lower price for the equal to this?
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 3:26:11 AM EDT
Looks like your trying to build a good rifle on a budget.

An RRA lower will take you months to get.  They're backordered up the ass.  Stag is built by the same company and unless you have something against the "queer deer" it's just as good (even better considering the $85 price tag.  Fill it with RRA parts ($54) and a 6 position buttstock ($65) and you'll have no issues.

RRA A4 uppers are running $88 a pop, damn good deal.  Bushy's are just expensive and the quality is the same.

While your at it the RRA enhanced bolt carries are $95.  After spending an hour with a piece of fine grit sandpaper making the one DPMS part in my rifle fit (an ambi safety), i'm biased.

I'd go with a 1/9 twist barrel, most ammo options.  with a 1/12 you'll be limited to 55gr and lighter.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:17:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 5:18:17 AM EDT by RictusGrin]
It all looks good, but I second what has been said about barrel twist rates.  Go with the 1:9 for sure, regardless of barrel length.  The 1:12 will limit you to very light bullets while the 1:9 will stabilize heavier pills and can still shoot the light stuff.

Stag is awesome, and like I've said many times, for $85 each I can ignore the "queer deer" on the receiver.  IMHO, Bushmaster is overpriced.  You get excellent quality with them, but you pay more $ for the same quality you get from RRA, Stag, LMT, etc.  I run DPMS barrel, bolt and carrier in a carbine I built, and I run their lower parts kits in 4 receivers and I have no complaints.

ETA:  I would avoid the chromed bolt and carrier.  They are said to flake and cause issues.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:33:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 6:52:10 AM EDT by mongo001]
Ditch the cash spent on the chrome bolt/carrier and put that money towards chrome lining for your barrel.  

Get a CMT A4 upper, they are alot cheaper than Bushmaster and you lose nothing in quality and you'll cut about $90 or so off the bottom line.  From what I see the Bushmaster A4 upper receiver costs $172 and a CMT from Denny's Guns/GTS costs $80.

You could save a few dollars more by going with a less expensive lower, like Stag.  I'm not keen on the deer roll mark, but in all reality, the receiver is just a parts holder and locator and the roll mark means nothing.  Rock River and LMT are both high quality, so you can't go wrong with those.

Going with a 1/12 barrel is a good choice if you plan on shooting only light weight bullets, like 55gr stuff.  I'd go with a minimum of a 1/9 twist, so that you can shoot a wider range of ammo, if you choose to.



Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:03:54 AM EDT
Del-Ton has T marked uppers for $77.25, I believe they are CMT.

I'd also go a different barrel route. 1-9 twist for sure.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 7:11:50 AM EDT


Rock River Arms, "Meaty" brand spanknig new: Bolt, bolt carrier, charging handle, $115 shipped to you on the EE from RBprecision.

Great deal.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:52:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 10:53:55 AM EDT by clubsoda22]

Originally Posted By SkiandShoot:

Rock River Arms, "Meaty" brand spanknig new: Bolt, bolt carrier, charging handle, $115 shipped to you on the EE from RBprecision.

Great deal.



The fact that it comes with the charging handle makes that a decent deal, but if Eagle still has it's deal on the bolt/bolt carrier, it's $95 with free shipping.

The lats 2 RRA charging handles i got were defective.  The hook was too short and narrow so it could slip over the gas key, which is a bad thing.  It leaves you with a jammed rifle and possibly a damaged charging handle.  The bushmaster one, albeit $25, had a lot more meat on it.  I've heared good things about the M16 charging handles on CDNN.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:00:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
I've heared good things about the M16 charging handles on CDNN.



They tend to be grey rather than black, so keep that in mind.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:10:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
I've heared good things about the M16 charging handles on CDNN.



They tend to be grey rather than black, so keep that in mind.



Why i got mine from bushmaster.  Anyway, grey is still better than broken.

Update: Supposedly it was just a bad run and RB precision now has correctly sized RRA handles
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:17:31 AM EDT
I am shopping for parts myself. I have found that at this time there seems to be a national shortage of charging handles! most don't have them in stock.

I am working on laying out price compares on each company so i don't get killed for shipping.
plus i'm lazy and want to only setup on account if i can. ;-)

so far i have only been looking at eagle,adco,mod1, RRA, Tapco (have some deals on minor parts)

my build is very similar cept i'm opting for the 20" barrel with 1/9 twist just pondering the which one to get....

Surf around on your barrel i found some huge $ diffences in prices on them. (50+)

Link Posted: 1/6/2005 3:48:10 PM EDT
You might consider Lauer Custom Weaponry Lowers.  They are machined by LMT.

Try to stick with matching parts upper/lower.  I recent bought a DPMS lower and an RRA upper and there were some differences on the outside.

As stated, RRA is out of barrels and lowers for 3 months from what the rep told me.  You may be able to get an RRA lower from someone that has them in stock like ADCO or Eagle Firearms.

I have no experience with the none bull shaw barrels, but their SS Bull barrels are nice.  I don't know if this goes for their none bull barrels, but on the bull barrel the outer diameter is larger than standard.  I had to modify my barrel nut.

Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:52:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
Update: Supposedly it was just a bad run and RB precision now has correctly sized RRA handles



I can vouch for the second half of that - I got a charging handle from RB Precision just yesterday, and it's the right dimensions.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 7:49:44 PM EDT
Could do a lot better on bolt carrier and barrel for less than $850.  Hard to go wrong with Rock River parts.  You can build a brand spanking new AR-15A2 config using Rock River upper and lower with Bushmaster chrome lined barrel for less than $700.  It's all about shopping around.  You'd have one first class boomstick.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:40:30 PM EDT
The Rock River is $280 & the LMT is $300. Both are M4 with 6 position collapsable stock. The Bushmaster A4 is $125. I will go with the 1-9 barrel. I have seen titanium coated bolts/carriers, should I saty away from anything that is coated? Would it do anything for realibility or performance or should I just go with plain jane like a Rock River?
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 4:38:19 AM EDT
The last 2 ARs I built I went with all ROCK RIVER ARMS PARTS,  I had no problems with eather build. Bought everthing I needed of EE board. I have a little under 600.00 in each build.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 4:43:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 4:46:49 AM EDT by mongo001]

Originally Posted By JepCheroke:
The Rock River is $280 & the LMT is $300. Both are M4 with 6 position collapsable stock. The Bushmaster A4 is $125. I will go with the 1-9 barrel. I have seen titanium coated bolts/carriers, should I saty away from anything that is coated? Would it do anything for realibility or performance or should I just go with plain jane like a Rock River?



Where are you getting a Bushmaster A4 for $125?  Go with the CMT A3/A4 upper receiver.  I hate to say it, but you have a small risk in getting a purple upper receiver from Bushmaster.  The savings is $45+ with nothing lost and with CMT you get the cool "T" address markings, something you can't get with Bushmaster.  The coated bolt carriers add nothing as far as reliability or performance, so save the money and get an enhanced RRA bolt carrier assembly.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:03:23 AM EDT
This is the setup I used for my current (first) build.  

RRA Parts:
Upper Receiver
Lower Receiver
Lower Parts Kit
6 Position Stock
Enhanced Bolt Carrier
Gas Tube

I got an M4 barrel from CMMG, very nice, well made chrome lined 1/7 twist.  I haven't shot it yet so I can't say what kind of accuracy it will yield.  My advice, lose the DPMS chromed carrier, I've heard a lot of complaints about the chrome flaking off.  A coated carrier really doesn't do much however I have heard the TiNi coated carriers make for really smooth operation, haven't tried it, don't want to.  There's something odd about a shiny carrier on an "evil black rifle."  MJD
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:09:49 AM EDT
a vote for RRA
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:15:14 AM EDT
JepCherokee:

WELCOME TO THE BOARD!

I voted for RRA, but would vote for any lower coming out of Continental Machine & Tool (RRA/Colt/even the Stag lowers).
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:26:54 AM EDT
If you want a reliable rifle, stick with the original mil-spec parts. Look into the RRA enhanced b/c or the standard LMT b/c for about $100.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:18:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 5:20:30 PM EDT by Hands_First]
I got a great deal on an Ameetec lower. It's real purty. Made by the same folks that make Bushy's. As for charging handles, you might want to check my post on the subject.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:32:10 PM EDT
To everyone that has added their 2 cents, thanks. You have given me some good advice & told me some things to stay away from that I probably would have bought. Anyone else that wants to add more, please do, I am still interested in hearing & gain more input.
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