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Posted: 7/22/2010 8:25:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Go with the NDS-16A1. Spend some time with the USGI Colt 603 XM16E1/M16A1 upper buyers guide and the Colt's USGI M16 series variation guide, both of which are pinned at the top of this forum, to learn what details are correct for a 1968-vintage M16A1. Then you just have to decide how much attention to detail is necessary to make you happy. A totally correct 1968 rifle will have some early features (early-bend gas tube, no forge code upper, MP and C marked barrel) which may require some patience to find and add to the final cost. On the other hand, if 1970s vintage parts and a new production barrel are close enough for your taste, you could pick up one of the parts kits that are available from various sources; the rifle would still be the correct overall configuration, just some of the small details and markings would be off. Only a serious retro-head would notice the difference, though.
If you're like me, you may start off thinking some things are "close enough", but over time you may change your mind to where you want to have everything exactly correct. |
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Posted: 7/22/2010 8:27:01 AM EDT
[#2]
In 1968 a brand new M16 would have been an M16A1 with a Type D stock and an MPC marked barrel with birdcage flash hider.
I would go with the NDS-16A1 lower. The 9mm markings would bug me! Heck I had to pick up a Multi-Caliber marked A2 lower for my Deer Hunter AR build. I just couldn't stand having an unmarked 7.62x39 barrel on an upper with a 5.56mm marked lower. If you're not going to sweat the details, why even bother. A modern flattop AR is "close enough." 
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Posted: 7/22/2010 8:37:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
In 1968 a brand new M16 would have been an M16A1 with a Type D stock and an MPC marked barrel with birdcage flash hider. I would go with the NDS-16A1 lower. The 9mm markings would bug me! Heck I had to pick up a Multi-Caliber marked A2 lower for my Deer Hunter AR build. I just couldn't stand having an unmarked 7.62x39 barrel on an upper with a 5.56mm marked lower. That is good news. I already have a type D stock, I got it from Sir Plus Supply. It is currently sitting on my first AR, a recce clone. I can swap the recce out to an A2 or something else. Think I might order an NDS-A1. Do you think the NDS-A1 blems are a good deal? Also, does anyone make a new A1 barrel? I know those kits come with one in the white, is anyone selling one separately? I'll go look at the stickies again, I always get information overload when I start reading about the different M16 models. :) |
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Posted: 7/22/2010 8:39:15 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 7/22/2010 9:22:41 AM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 7/22/2010 9:24:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Do you have any pictures of your Dad with his M16?
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Posted: 7/22/2010 9:41:28 AM EDT
[#7]
Nice pics Hal143. Never seen that before. I am having my brothers look for pics of him with his rifle, not sure if there are any to be found.
Interesting that they show the pathfinder with the carbine. In his book he talks about a friend of his carrying a CAR15, but he says he has an M16. I know later in his career in the reserves he had an M4. I can remember him talking about not liking the M4 because they took away the auto setting. :) |
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Posted: 7/22/2010 9:47:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Most of the pics I've seen of Pathfinders and FAC's had the XM177 series carbines. I guess they could have carried whatever they wanted. The modern USAF STS, Combat Weather Teams and Pathfinders all cary carbines as well. Usually favored by the fast movers.
ETA: Another pic from the net, with a 68-70 era M16A1 
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Posted: 7/22/2010 10:29:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Interesting to see pictures of them carrying both. I am fairly sure he carried an M16 rifle, judging by his book. Also I have read another book by a guy in the same platoon, but there earlier than my dad was, and I'm pretty sure he had an M16 as well. I may have to go find my copy of that one.
I hope I can come up with a picture of him in Nam, so I will know for sure what model he carried. |
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Posted: 7/22/2010 10:31:58 AM EDT
[#10]
That would be the 101st Airborne Division. There is no 101 Airborn.
Was he assigned to Division Aviation (101st Aviation Group) or one of its aviation battalions or to the 2nd Squadron 17th Cavalry or the Ranger / LRRP company (originally Co. F, 58th Infantry then Company L, 75th Infantry)? You might go here - http://www.uspathfinders.org/index.html - the Pathfinder Association Pathfinderes predate airmobile opeartions. Up through the 1970s they also went in before combat parachute operations to set up the landing zones (but USAF combat controllers do that for the conventional Army now). My father was the Division Chief of Staff 1968-9. The posted picture is representative of a aviation pathfinder |
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Posted: 7/22/2010 10:40:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
That would be the 101st Airborne Division. There is no 101 Airborn. Was he assigned to Division Aviation (101st Aviation Group) or one of its aviation battalions or to the 2nd Squadron 17th Cavalry or the Ranger / LRRP company (originally Co. F, 58th Infantry then Company L, 75th Infantry)? You might go here - http://www.uspathfinders.org/index.html - the Pathfinder Association Pathfinderes predate airmobile opeartions. Up through the 1970s they also went in before combat parachute operations to set up the landing zones (but USAF combat controllers do that for the conventional Army now). My father was the Division Chief of Staff 1968-9. The posted picture is representative of a aviation pathfinder Thanks for that correction. I was unsure of how that is correctly written. The book listed on that webpage by Richard R. Burns is the other book I was talking about also. I will look in my fathers book to see If i can tell you any more about the unit he was in. |
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Posted: 7/22/2010 10:45:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Also check out this link.
Left side, column, scroll down to Pathfinders. Some great articles and pics from Hawk Magazine. http://www.1stavnbde.com/Articles_about_us.html |
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Posted: 7/22/2010 3:38:29 PM EDT
[#13]
As your dad's notes indicate we carried the "M16" and didn't care a twit if the rifle was an XM16E1 or a M16A1. In 1968 there were still plenty of unissued XM16E1s to be had if anyone cared to notice. If his notes say "new" and they also mention the flash suppressor you'll have a better idea.
But it really does NOT matter as we upgraded our XM16E1 rifles in the field to at least partial M16A1 standards through out 1968 and later. No matter if he was issued a "correct" XM16E1 it would no doubt be tweaked throughout his tour. The 3-prong flash suppressors went quickly as they could be swapped on the fire bases with minimal tools. Likewise the phosphated bolt carrier groups (the chrome carriers were prone to stress cracks). Other furniture was replaced if it was broken. A couple of DS maintenance armorers could inspect and fit new parts to a rifle company in a long day. If the barrel was shot or couldn't be made to headspace they grabbed a new (or rebuilt) rifle out of the crate and issued it. I don't recall any "M16s" with a trap in the butt for cleaning supplies until after this period. My troops carried M16s that looked like this one made on a Essential Arms receiver several years ago. Most of ours were XM16E1 with the 3-prong before being updated. Later rifles got chrome chambers and still later in the was the got chrome bores. This is an actual M16A1 C-MP-CHROME BORE upper receiver "retroed" with the 3-prong suppressor because everyone identifies that with the Vietnam War even though it was phased out fairly quickly and only liked for it's ability to twist the wire off the C-ration cases. 
XM177E1/E2 Submachine guns were rare. A few of us had them and they were status items (as well as being handy). I'm holding one in my avatar photo. –– Chuck |
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Posted: 7/23/2010 3:36:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Your right Chuck.
The XM177 or GAU as the Air Force called it, was a status symbol. The first thing you did when you got your weapaon from the armory was to take the front of the sling off and run it through the front sight. That way you could hold your dog with one hand and fire with the other. |
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Posted: 7/23/2010 5:50:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Thanks for the info Chuck. That helps immensely. I hope I can turn up a picture of my Dad in country, so I can build it right. I wondered if there would be a possibility of him having an older M16 even though it was new when issued to him.
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