Alright guys so I've been wanting an evil black rifle for a while now. I have been looking at AK's (VEPR to be specific) since they can be had for less than an AR, but I would still want an AR since I would most likely get an AK-74 (.223) anyway. I have also been eyeballing the Kel-Tec SU-16C/CA/D models simply because they are more affordable, but again, it's no AR. Basically I want a super tough SHTF rifle rather than a sniper.

I'm thinking instead of going cheap, I can slowly dump money into an AR build on a budget. I LOVE to do things myself, and I can research / spec out exactly which individual parts I want as I go. I think it would also have more personal value / meaning this way. I have no idea how difficult it would be however. Is it do-able? Would I be better off to try an AK build instead?

What are the major components involved in a build and approx. how much should I look at budgeting for each major component? What total price range could I expect to be able to build one for? Is there significant savings to be had over purchasing a completed rifle? How much work can I do at home and how much has to be done by a smith? Are their expensive tools to buy that can't be justified for a single build?

There is a company in Missouri that builds AR's I'm thinking about supporting being a Missourian myself. Can anyone tell me the company and their opinions of them? Any particular companies I should look into specifically? Tips / opinions / advice? Better to get a complete lower or do it all piece by piece? I want to end up with a rifle that will have the same reliability and ruggedness as a Glock...dirty and all. I hear AR’s have somewhat of a sensitive recoil system when it comes to being clean.

I've read and read and read the forums over the years about AR's before getting too serious about doing anything and the amount of information is simply mind-numbing so it's a little intimidating to say the least, but I'm thinking I can have fun with it. Thanks for your time guys, anything you have to offer is appreciated!!!


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Just finished my first build tonight. Here are some pics. You have to copy / paste or the links won't work...sorry.

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/images/129-213-143709.jpg

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/images/129-213-143708.jpg

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/images/129-213-143707.jpg

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/images/129-213-143710.jpg

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/images/129-213-143711.jpg

- Mega upper / lower receiver
- RRA LPK
- CMT BCG (MP checked)
- Sabre Defence 16" Middy (1:9 chrome lined)
- Phantom 5C2
- Samson MRFS-M
- Troy BUIS (SKD version)
- Surefire 6P w/ KL3 head clickie TC
- VLTOR flashlight mount
- RRA 6-pos collapsible stock
- David Tubb ISMI flat-wound recoil spring
- CMT H buffer
- D-Fender extractor D-ring
- KNS S.S. anti-roll pins
- GG&G SlingThing
- Ergo ambi sure grip and Ergo low-pro rail covers
- Blue Force Gear / DSG IDF sling
- D&H black T 30 rd. mags.

Case of Q3131 on the way. Soon to come: EOTech HUGE

If you're happy with one of the standard AR configurations, building your own may not save all that much.  I ended up saving about $150 on my build only because gunshops around here have huge mark-ups and charge extorbitant rates for tranferring "assault weapons".  Of course, if you plan to customize, building your own is the way to go.

I got my stripped lower receiver locally because that is the only FFL item.  All my other components were purchased online.  I was able to get dealer pricing at MidwayUSA and Brownells with my C&R license.  The prices were comparable with some of the best deals you can get here at the EE.

I'd recommend starting with the lower receiver first, since it involves less decisions to make.  Once your idea firms up, you can then buy/build your upper.

Have fun!

Thanks man, I'm looking into pretty seriously now. A guy on GlockTalk sort of laid down a general price schedule for each major component and I think I could have one built up by next spring. It's either save for a few months and get one complete, or spend the winter playing with it one piece at a time. ;) Think I want to start a build. Just gotta do more research first to see what all is involved, what tools I'd need, and how much a smith will have to do.

One thing, I saw a thread where a guy got a steal on a complete lower RRA for $650, but the guy on GT is telling me I can have a decent receiver shipped and transferred for around $110 and $50 for a LPK. Why the price difference? What do people look at when choosing which brand to go with...Price? Quality? Finish? Compatibility?

I have a nice older laptop if anyone has any build parts to swap.

Quoted: One thing, I saw a thread where a guy got a steal on a complete lower RRA for $650, but the guy on GT is telling me I can have a decent receiver shipped and transferred for around $110 and $50 for a LPK. Why the price difference? What do people look at when choosing which brand to go with...Price? Quality? Finish? Compatibility?

$650 for a RRA complete lower may be some similar to the below, and not a standard lower....

$125 RRA lower (plus shiiping and FFL fees for an extra $50)
$70 LPK- Stag/ CMT
$175 2 stage trigger
$250 SOPMOD stock

I see, so about how much are telescoping stocks going for? Why so much for the 2-stage? Are they really "all that"?

Figure a good adjustable stock is available (CMT) for around $70-75.

A 2 stage trigger is simply one of the different options available, I see no use for them on most AR15s, others are lost without them.

It doesnt matter what type of rifle your choosing BUILD BUILD BUILD!!! Its waaaaay better...plus you gain this almost psychic bond with your weapon...it starts talking to you at night in your sleep and it tells you things....things you wouldnt hear normally....secret things so i say....buiiiilllllld it.....buuuuiiiillllld iiiiiiittt!!!

Awesome, think I'm headed that direction...just need to figure out which configuration first. Going to have to read till my eyes bleed, then read some more.

Bleed away.  Search is your friend!  Use it well...

Quoted: Alright guys so I've been wanting an evil black rifle for a while now. I have been looking at AK's (VEPR to be specific) since they can be had for less than an AR, but I would still want an AR since I would most likely get an AK-74 (.223) anyway. I have also been eyeballing the Kel-Tec SU-16C/CA/D models simply because they are more affordable, but again, it's no AR. Basically I want a super tough SHTF rifle rather than a sniper.

You are right where I was a year or two ago.  I chose an AR over the Vepr for sentimental reasons--I carried M16A1s in the Army and have wanted an AR15 since the '70s.  I doubt there are many .223 Veprs that will consistently shoot 2MOA with XM193 and iron sights

Quoted: I'm thinking instead of going cheap, I can slowly dump money into an AR build on a budget. I LOVE to do things myself, and I can research / spec out exactly which individual parts I want as I go. I think it would also have more personal value / meaning this way. I have no idea how difficult it would be however. Is it do-able? Would I be better off to try an AK build instead?

You sound like a perfect candidate to build your own AR.  I'm slowly accumulating components for my next build.  It's nice to be able to choose exactly the parts you want.  Building ARs is easy--easier than many automotive projects IM0.  Just get some instructions and tools, follow the instructions, take your time and be careful.  I can't speak to AK builds.

Quoted: What are the major components involved in a build and approx. how much should I look at budgeting for each major component? What total price range could I expect to be able to build one for? Is there significant savings to be had over purchasing a completed rifle? How much work can I do at home and how much has to be done by a smith? Are their expensive tools to buy that can't be justified for a single build?

Take a look at an exploded view of an AR15.  Prices depend on what you want.  That's where the research you mentioned above comes in.  For me, shopping for deals on parts is just part of the fun.  There can be savings over purchasing a complete rifle, but for me the primary benefits are (1) getting exactly what you want, (2) a fun project and (3) the satisfaction of assembling something yourself.  How much you have to farm-out to a smith also depends on your abilities and facilities.  My first build was an ultralight carbine.  I could have shaved off a couple more ounces by sending it out to have the barrel cut-down to 14.5" and have the flash suppressor permanently attached, but decided it wasn't worth the price or bother.  There are lists of tools here.  The only special tool I have is a DPMS upper receiver block.  Don't sweat the tools--you'll probably end up building more than one AR

Quoted: There is a company in Missouri that builds AR's I'm thinking about supporting being a Missourian myself. Can anyone tell me the company and their opinions of them? Any particular companies I should look into specifically? Tips / opinions / advice? Better to get a complete lower or do it all piece by piece? I want to end up with a rifle that will have the same reliability and ruggedness as a Glock...dirty and all. I hear AR’s have somewhat of a sensitive recoil system when it comes to being clean.

I don't know about the MO company.  If I were you, I'd start with a Stag lower and install the parts kit yourself.  Where you go from there depends on what you want.  I'd also build around a Magnetic Partical Inspected (MPI) bolt.

Quoted:I've read and read and read the forums over the years about AR's before getting too serious about doing anything and the amount of information is simply mind-numbing so it's a little intimidating to say the least, but I'm thinking I can have fun with it. Thanks for your time guys, anything you have to offer is appreciated!!!

There's good info here!  Break your build down into pieces and research each one (e.g. best lower for you, best bolt for you, best barrel for you, etc.)  When it comes to actually assembling your parts, I found information here and "The AR-15 Complete Assembly Guide" by Walt Kuleck and Clint McKee to be a handy bench reference.  I got it from Fulton Armory for $20.

I tried the slowly put money into it.  That didn't work so well.  I told my wife I would take two years to build  my first AR, it was more like 4 months.  It sure is a blast to take something that you built and have it work better than some of the production models!!!!

Enjoy your build.

BUILD.

It's easier than most people think and much more fun.

WIZZO

I must agree with the guys above. BUILD IT YOURSELF! You are in the same boat that I am. (sort of) My best friend back in the states bought a complete lower and then an upper and put them together. It looked freaking awesome. I'm currently contracting in the sandbox and for the last 2-3 months have slowly been buying the parts for me build. I now have everything waiting for me at home when I get there. The route that I have taken it ended up costing quite a bit more than it would have it I had just forked out the cash to buy a complete rifle, but, doing it this way I got EXACTLY the weapon I wanted and as an added bonus I get to take pride in something that I built myself. Here is what I have for my build:

Mega stripped lower (x2, 1 for now and 1 for later )
Bushmaster 16' Patrolmans carbine barrel
Daniel Defense carbine length free float handguard
Bravo Company upper w/M4 ramps
CMT/Stag lower parts kit
CMT/Stag 6 pos. stock
Bushmaster charging handle
A.R.M.S BUIS #40
Bushmaster "full circle" shrouded bolt
Aimpoint optic (used)

Now I just need to get my ass home so I can build the damn thing!!

Sweet build man, wish I had my own opinions on all the different parts...going to take a while I'm sure. Luckily I just want to start with stripped lower and parts kit. I'm leaning toward a Mega, RRA, or Bushmaster lower. Does anyone take their lowers one step further than the other? Does anyone offer a threaded 16" chrome lined barrel / chamber in 4150? Do I want free float or no?

A lot of folks seem to love the Stag LPK...how is it different from the others? I assume it boils down to trigger feel? I'm pretty picly about triggers so I want a nice one and wouldn't mind spending an extra $20 or so to get it. Has anyone done a comparison on the different LPK's?

Quoted: Sweet build man, wish I had my own opinions on all the different parts...going to take a while I'm sure. Luckily I just want to start with stripped lower and parts kit. I'm leaning toward a Mega, RRA, or Bushmaster lower. Does anyone take their lowers one step further than the other? Does anyone offer a threaded 16" chrome lined barrel / chamber in 4150? Do I want free float or no? A lot of folks seem to love the Stag LPK...how is it different from the others? I assume it boils down to trigger feel? I'm pretty picly about triggers so I want a nice one and wouldn't mind spending an extra $20 or so to get it. Has anyone done a comparison on the different LPK's?

WARNING!! But be real careful how you manage your BRD (Black Rifle Disease)...some have forsaken the regular cootie shots and it has cost them....many have lost wives...all of their savings and retirement...the worst case senarios is when their wives caught the disease themselves! Some couples have even sold their houses and cars to live in gooberment housing and take public transportation just to afford more toys!

....I sell crack to make money for more parts...

Hahaha...too funny. I'm sure I'll find myself in the same damn boat. I want a pretty trick fore end so I'm sure that'll cost me.

Does Mega have a website? I can't find it for shit, even in the links section under Mega or MMS. Does anyone know the Missouri based guys that make AR lowers? Think they were from Sikeston or Stockton or something but again, can't find them and forgot the name.

I just shot my m4/stag/full YHM accessory build yesterday, hell I built it back in March.  I took along a factory DPMS AR, didn't even think about breaking it out of the case at the range.  I was surprised how attached I was to the built rifle, it didn't miss a beat.   I think I am done with factory ARs.  Nothing beats knowing exactly how it operates cause you put it together.   You learn alot.

Yea, I'm pretty excited man. Does anyone make full finger groove pistol grips? I thought the grip was part of a strippped lower and now see it's not.

you want either the hogue grip or G27, available in the equipment exchange. the hogue is for really big hands though, the G27 feels sweet

Thx.

What do you guys think of GlobalTactical / Denny's guns? I just found their site in the link section. They are only a few miles from my house and I have delt with them before, not knowing they had an AR website. Specifically, how are their brands and prices compared to most? My experience is only with handguns at the store front. Also, I thought Chuck ran the place not ever knowing who Denny was. Does he do the smithing and own the place or what's the story?

I was struggling with this decision for quite some time now but today I got/built my first AR-15.

Its a RRA upper and matching RRA lower A4 style he

Sweet man, I've narrowed my lower selection to Mega, RRA, and Stag...though I haven't looked very closely at Bushmaster yet. I like what I've read about Mega/ MMS, and the lack of a website and mainstream distribution makes me want one even more. I hate having things everyone else has. Also, Mega uses 7076 al. instead of 7075 which is higher quality isn't it? Still forged I assume? I hear the Mega lowers are REALLY dark black so I'm wondering what upper I would need to get to match closely. Does anyone offer a complete upper (with barrel and all) that has a trick rail system fore end?

Quoted: I hear the Mega lowers are REALLY dark black so I'm wondering what upper I would need to get to match closely. Does anyone offer a complete upper (with barrel and all) that has a trick rail system fore end?

I believe RRA does.  

Matching was an issue which is why I went with RRA uppers and lowers.  This way I knew I wouldnt have any fitment issues, no rigging anything up to get it to fit right.  Now I gotta get to the range and sight this puppy in.

I bought a matching MEGA upper with my complete lower from Caricoz.  I added a gunshow colt lightweight 16" barrel  that I installed myself, and put on a $110 YHM Two Piece Handguards.  THe only trick was installing the barrel myself, but with an upper action block from Fulton ($30), it went on in under 4 minutes.  The Mega upper and lower fit together like a dream, and match like they came out of the same vat of dye...

Hells yeah. How would you compare Mega to CMT?

I dont have any CMT  recievers to compare, but it compares well with my Armalite and Superior.  I think that at this point, you are splitting hairs.  It is like saying "Which car has better lugnuts, a ferarri or porsche?"

That's what I wanted to hear. ;)

Quoted: I hear the Mega lowers are REALLY dark black so I'm wondering what upper I would need to get to match closely. Does anyone offer a complete upper (with barrel and all) that has a trick rail system fore end?

Get a Mega upper to match your Mega lower.....  

Plenty of places will slap on the barrel you want along with a rail system, but thats not really building it now is it?  

True.

Out of curiousity, does anyone make a factory Mega? Do you suggest the Mega upper because of color match or?

Does anyone care to explain floating vs. non-floating barrels to me?

Does anoyne else care to vote between the Samo G27 and the Hogue grip? I have large hands, (XL) but would like to keep somewhat of an original grip profile. I would think the finger grooved rubber grip would feel better than a hard plastic grip with that index finger stub. Am I wrong?

Another quick question, if I want a 16" barrel, would I need an M4 upper? M4 means carbine does it not?

Quoted: Does anoyne else care to vote between the Samo G27 and the Hogue grip? I have large hands, (XL) but would like to keep somewhat of an original grip profile. I would think the finger grooved rubber grip would feel better than a hard plastic grip with that index finger stub. Am I wrong?

Can't speak to either of those, but you might look at THIS, too.

Quoted: Another quick question, if I want a 16" barrel, would I need an M4 upper? M4 means carbine does it not?

M4 denotes a particular kind of carbine.  The M4 has larger feed ramps on the barrel extension and cuts in the upper that line up with them.  If you use a barrel with M4 feed ramps, then you need a matching upper.

By the way, I remembered that in addition to the DPMS upper receiver block, I bought headspace gauges.  Other than the receiver block and headspace gauges, all the other tools I have used on my ARs - mostly punches - were already in my shop.

What kind of a build are you doing?  Do you have a particular vision, purpose or scenario in mind?

Thanks for the reply. I am going to look into Ergo and Tango Down as well, and cancelled my order for the Samco.

I want a 16" threaded bbl. AR with 6-pos. stock, flat top, flip-up sights, red dot, and trick fore end with rails. I have the stock on the way, looking into grips and lowers. I have decided on Mega, RRA / Stang (don't like the Stag roll mark) or possibly Bushmaster. I haven't started looking at BC's, uppers or barrels yet. I plan to spend about 5 months on the build, learning as I go. I will most likely get a complete upper and have the barrel installed by Denny because I don't have a shop worth putting more tools in, though I plan to get these as soon as we move. I want a general SHTF rifle that I can punch 10's of thousands of rds. thorugh at the range till I pass it on to my unborn brat or his brats. ;) You know, another toy I can't afford. ;) I will likely acquire some spare parts, building another in a few years, but I don't want to waste money since I really can't afford to do that. Want to pretty much make the right decisions first time around if at all possible. I want the ultimate in reliability and ruggedness. Not at all concerned with collector value or resale as this won't be going anywhere.

I'm pretty much a Glock guy with other handguns, a Kel-Tec carbine, and Rem. 870. New to AR's though I have shot my uncle's Bushy.

What are the hot mags. to go with? Colt 30 rounders? I only want new mags. known for reliabilty. How much are they going for? Does anyone offer a drum? May as well get started looking for mag deals huh? ;) Do you guys buy 5.56 NATO or .223? Best to buy in the internet? I have a Cabellas near by and live just 20 min. from the Lake City plant if they have some sort of program going for locals.

Sorry, I know I'm LOADED with questions, but I've read till I can't see straight and can only search the previous 30 days which I haven't had much luck with. Can I search everything if I become a bronze member? Thanks for ALL of your patience. I am trying to avoid multiple threads.

Quoted: I want a general SHTF rifle that I can punch 10's of thousands of rds. thorugh at the range till I pass it on to my unborn brat or his brats. ;)

Then buy the best bolt and barrel you can afford.  Get a Colt or other magnetic particle inspected bolt.  IIRC the Colts are also shot peened, which is a good thing.  I'd love to get my hands on a Diemaco cold hammer forged C7 or C8 barrel for similar reasons (strength and longevity).  The C7 and C8 are the Canadian versions of the M16 and M4 made by Diemaco (now Colt Canada).  At a minimum, I'd get a mil. spec barrel (5.56 chamber, 4150 steel, chrome lined magnetic particle inspected), for your purposes.

Quoted: What are the hot mags. to go with? Colt 30 rounders? I only want new mags. known for reliabilty. How much are they going for? Does anyone offer a drum? May as well get started looking for mag deals huh? ;)

The consensus is USGI 30-rounders with green anti-tilt followers.  If you shop carefully you can find them for around $12 - maybe less.  Many people swear by the USGI 20-round mags with the aluminum follower.  I own and love both.  I have 13 Teflon coated USGI 30s made by Labelle and 19 USGI 20s with metal followers.  I have yet to have a problem with any of them.  There is a 100 round drum called the Beta C-Mag, but I would not bet my life on one.

Quoted:Do you guys buy 5.56 NATO or .223? Best to buy in the internet? I have a Cabellas near by and live just 20 min. from the Lake City plant if they have some sort of program going for locals.

 

Read the Ammo Oracle.  XM193, Q3131A and M885 are all good all-around options.  There are ratings on the ammo board for other kinds of ammo.  For "serious social purposes" you might also look at the heavier Open Tip Match (OTM) rounds mentioned in the Ammo Oracle and elsewhere.  For cheap plinking, you might look at Wolf or Barnaul.

Quoted: Sorry, I know I'm LOADED with questions, but I've read till I can't see straight and can only search the previous 30 days which I haven't had much luck with. Can I search everything if I become a bronze member? Thanks for ALL of your patience. I am trying to avoid multiple threads

After you have searched the last 3 months, click on "Archive" above (next to "Search").  You can search the Archives WAY back.  

Try reading this thread.

I believe there is some discussion about home builds v. brand-builds in terms of reliability.

Might be of some use.

I'll check these links out. How much on average will one of these premium bolts run me? And the barrels? I want to make sure these items will fit my budget. If not I may need to find a close second. ;)

Bravo Company sells CMT bolt groups with MPI bolts for $135.  Saw Sales (www.specializedarmament.com) sells Colt semi-auto bolt groups for $179.  Their Colt MPC bolts are $125, though, so I don't know if the $179 price includes an MPC bolt.  www.autoweapons.com sells new Colt  semi-auto bolt groups with MPC bolts for $205.  There may be better deals out there.

Barrel-wise, Colt and Bushmaster have good reps - they have 4150 steel, 5.56 chambers, full chrome lining.  Here is a Barrel FAQ from another site: LINK

Don't know what I'd do w/o you guys.  ; )  Magnetic particle checked? Sounds serious. Hahahah. Is it possible to get a complete CMT upper with MPC bolt? Do I want enhanced or standard? Is there a simple explanation describing the difference? Thx again for the link.

Right here.  IIRC, Stag is CMT, or at least their retail marketing arm.  CMT stands for Continental Machine Tool.  I know you don't like the Stag rollmark, but the big buck's not on the upper.  I don't know if the Stag upper half's come with an MP bolt.  I suspect it's extra.  You could call Stag and ask.  According to Bravo Company's website and some posts here, the Stag/CMT barrels are chrome-lined 4150 with a 5.56 chamber, too

Nice, I'll have to look into those. I like CMT, just not that rollmark like you said. Are all "complete" uppers sold with barrels? I was planning on buying the barrel seperate. I think I have seen them both ways, but wasn't sure. Only reason for buying the upper already assembled, is because of the tool situation. Figured I could have the barrel installed by Denny and do the rest myself. Maybe I can drop the chunk of change all at once though to get it all in one shot. Can't wait for that tax return.  ; )

You can do it either way.  The Stag site only lists complete rifles, complete upper halves and accessories, but you can buy Stag/CMT receivers, barrels and other components elsewhere.

Mega has a great reputation, too.  If I bought a Mega lower, I'd probably just get a Mega upper to go  with it.  I also like Mega because I am in WA.

That's cool, I like what I've seen so far...I just might do that. You can't buy a complete factory Mega can you? I don't want to, I just want to know if their offered...if so I'd probably get an unmatched upper just to have something different.

Looks like just uppers and lowers on the Mega website, which says the uppers are out of stock.  IIRC, Mega/Carricoz is a small outfit, and the owner, Clinton Carrico, is or was working OT on a big construction project here.  As a result, Carricoz may really be out of uppers or the website may be out of date.

Just tried to call, will try again later. Think I'm going this route and emailed Denny about picking up some anti-spin pins and an Ergo. 6-pos. "RRA" unmarked upper on the way too. Sweet deal in the EE!!! Going RRA / CMT in the LPK. Still unsure of upper internals or barrel, but if I can afford it...Bushy / CMT 4150 barrel. No clue about flip-up sites or fore end.

Clinton Carrico has a rep of being difficult to get a hold of, but outstanding to deal with once you do.  I am sure once you catch him in and explain exactly what you want, he can scare up what you are looking for.

Keep in mind that complete firearms have the tax added.  If you buy the complete upper and lower separate, it will be cheaper.  Then again, I am sure Uncle Sam could use the money.  

All this advice about MPI bolts are good, but very high end stuff.  If you get quality parts from known vendors, the MPI might be overkill.  But, it’s your money.  Good luck.


PS:  Caricoz website was last modified on 5/24/05--my guess is it is out of date...

Great advice I'm sure. It's appreciated. Good vendors like RRA / CMT or is there better yet before going MP checked? What do you think of "enhanced" bolts?

RRA is great--I have used RB Precision for my RRA purchases.  No personal experience w/ CMT.  I have had both enhanced and standard bolts, and to be honest, had no functional issues with either.  Then are lots of good vendors and parts out there.  I dont think you could go wrong with anything you have been told so far--the problem is asking what is "best."   Everyone has a different opinion.  It is like saying what is the best car or best computer.  It depends on who you ask, what day of the week, etc...

I really...really...really like these: (stolen from pics thread.)

Rifle1

Rifle2

I hear ya man. Won't be needing a bolt for a while so plenty of time to read and call Clinton. Damn, those Magpul modular stocks are trick huh?

Quoted: All this advice about MPI bolts are good, but very high end stuff.  If you get quality parts from known vendors, the MPI might be overkill.  But, it’s your money.

+1  I have expensive tastes and my opinion (that the bolt group and barrel are the heart of the weapon) is only one among many.  I value Stickman's and mongo001's opinions, in particular.  They've each helped me a lot.

Oh yea, I don't know if anyone has suggested the Equipment Exchange right here as a source of deals.  You can find some good ones.