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Posted: 11/3/2012 8:49:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2012 8:50:29 AM EST by bigsapper]
Looking to "up" my rifle as far as features. My three directives are quality, simplicity and lightweight.

Here's what we are starting with...


I will be swapping out the upper receiver for a Colt flat top. Barrel stays, it's a Colt 1x7

Thinking of replacing the stock for a CTR.

I need a light, which one? Which mount?

Optic? BUIS?
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 8:59:51 AM EST
Looks good to me.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 9:07:19 AM EST
Step 1: Add flashlight.

Step 2: done.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 9:39:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2012 9:45:00 AM EST by camoman33935]
Originally Posted By charles_lee_ray:
Step 1: Add flashlight.

Step 2: done.


Pretty much. Just buy one ofthe rail panels for MOE handguards and mount either a Streamlight TLR-1 or a Surefire X300 and call it done.

You have met all of your directives without even doing anything to the rifle. If you want to keep it simple, leave it how it is and just add the light.

Once you start adding optics, buis and everything else, the simplicity goes down while the weight goes up.

Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 9:44:18 AM EST
Ah, but "everyone" says you need optics now. No reason for antiquated irons on modern battle rifles.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 9:46:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Ah, but "everyone" says you need optics now. No reason for antiquated irons on modern battle rifles.


Do you feel that you need an optic or are you just doing it to fit in the "cool kid" club?
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 9:48:38 AM EST
Well at 50+ years old, my eyes could use some help.

Thanks for the cools kids comment. It's like getting carded when buying beer.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 9:52:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2012 9:58:55 AM EST by Augee]
Mossie light mount, Surefire X300, RDS of choice.

Done.

ETA: Form 1, $200, 10.3" or 11.5" barrel. Form 4, $200, suppressor.

You're going to get a lot of recommendations for Aimpoint T1s and Troy BUIS. Both good, neither my top choices, but quite popular.

I'm an EOTech man, personally, and prefer KAC 300m BUIS.

For your purposes, however, a T1 might be better, smaller, lighter, and since you don't have to change batteries as often or check them as often, simpler.

I just prefer the EOTech's reticule.

~Augee
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 9:54:39 AM EST
Option 1: Line up sights, cover target with front sight to compensate for sight over bore.

Option 2: Place dot on target, fire

Your choice
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 9:56:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Well at 50+ years old, my eyes could use some help.

Thanks for the cools kids comment. It's like getting carded when buying beer.


If you need the optic to help increase your sighting ability then I would most definitely agree with getting one. Just make sure to look through a few different types to make sure your eyes will work with the optic. I have a bad astigmatism and cannot use red dot sights so I'm stuck with irons or a regular rifle scope. You will just have to find out what works for you.

No disrespect was meant by the cool kids comment
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 10:01:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By camoman33935:
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Well at 50+ years old, my eyes could use some help.

Thanks for the cools kids comment. It's like getting carded when buying beer.


If you need the optic to help increase your sighting ability then I would most definitely agree with getting one. Just make sure to look through a few different types to make sure your eyes will work with the optic. I have a bad astigmatism and cannot use red dot sights so I'm stuck with irons or a regular rifle scope. You will just have to find out what works for you.

No disrespect was meant by the cool kids comment


You may want to explore a low powered ACOG like the 1.5x models - it's a scope, so it may "defeat" your astigmatism, but it's almost as fast as an RDS, and better than irons alone.

~Augee
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 10:04:35 AM EST
How about night sights and a flash light and call it good?
night sights
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 10:22:49 AM EST
If you do go flat top, the. Get the DD A1.5 rear sight then mount your dot of choice.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 10:40:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By charles_lee_ray:
If you do go flat top, the. Get the DD A1.5 rear sight then mount your dot of choice.


This too, I love my A1.5 DD
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 11:19:27 AM EST
"KINO" upper with a suppressor....
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 11:40:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By Augee:
Mossie light mount, Surefire X300, RDS of choice.

Done.

ETA: Form 1, $200, 10.3" or 11.5" barrel. Form 4, $200, suppressor.

You're going to get a lot of recommendations for Aimpoint T1s and Troy BUIS. Both good, neither my top choices, but quite popular.

I'm an EOTech man, personally, and prefer KAC 300m BUIS.

For your purposes, however, a T1 might be better, smaller, lighter, and since you don't have to change batteries as often or check them as often, simpler.

I just prefer the EOTech's reticule.

~Augee


Sold on the light and mount so those are on the way.

The upper receiver is getting replaced so I'm still interested in hearing RDS & BUIS suggestions.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 11:49:16 AM EST
DD A1.5 fixed rear sight and Aimpoint PRO...

+1 to the mossie midnight mount and Surefire X300
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 11:58:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Ah, but "everyone" says you need optics now. No reason for antiquated irons on modern battle rifles.


While I understand the advantages of optics, at my age I still don't trust them 100%. You should also have some of those antiquated iron sights.

If I could only have one or the other, I would choose those antiquated iron sights.

This being ARFcom, I will just say, "get both".
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 12:02:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2012 12:03:04 PM EST by 762minigun2]
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Originally Posted By Augee:
Mossie light mount, Surefire X300, RDS of choice.

Done.

ETA: Form 1, $200, 10.3" or 11.5" barrel. Form 4, $200, suppressor.

You're going to get a lot of recommendations for Aimpoint T1s and Troy BUIS. Both good, neither my top choices, but quite popular.

I'm an EOTech man, personally, and prefer KAC 300m BUIS.

For your purposes, however, a T1 might be better, smaller, lighter, and since you don't have to change batteries as often or check them as often, simpler.

I just prefer the EOTech's reticule.

~Augee


Sold on the light and mount so those are on the way.

The upper receiver is getting replaced so I'm still interested in hearing RDS & BUIS suggestions.


Ebay has several KAC 200-600m BUIS for less than $40
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 12:06:47 PM EST
For home defense? No need for lightweight honestly. but 2lb's more or less will not affect you in an immediate defense situation at all.


I say put a light on, and screw the iron sights. Place a lazer on it you only need the .5 second to blind the suspect confirm he's not someone you know and pull the trigger 6 times. No need to focuse on a sight on your gun. Just use the dot on the assailant.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 12:11:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By 762minigun2:
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Originally Posted By Augee:
Mossie light mount, Surefire X300, RDS of choice.

Done.

ETA: Form 1, $200, 10.3" or 11.5" barrel. Form 4, $200, suppressor.

You're going to get a lot of recommendations for Aimpoint T1s and Troy BUIS. Both good, neither my top choices, but quite popular.

I'm an EOTech man, personally, and prefer KAC 300m BUIS.

For your purposes, however, a T1 might be better, smaller, lighter, and since you don't have to change batteries as often or check them as often, simpler.

I just prefer the EOTech's reticule.

~Augee


Sold on the light and mount so those are on the way.

The upper receiver is getting replaced so I'm still interested in hearing RDS & BUIS suggestions.


Ebay has several KAC 200-600m BUIS for less than $40


Isn't this what comes on the new Colt 6720?

Link Posted: 11/3/2012 12:26:59 PM EST
No.

The 6720 comes with a MATECH BUIS.

~Augee
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 12:43:58 PM EST
Just mounted an Optisan 1-4 Mamba to my M4 clone, perhaps a little more weight @ 18 oz + mount, but gives me a lighted reticule for night and all the magnification I need to 200 yds. Price is right too!

http://swfa.com/Optisan-Riflescopes-C3507.aspx?gclid=CIDZm4_hs7MCFU-d4AodQxUAAg
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 2:08:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Looking to "up" my rifle as far as features. My three directives are quality, simplicity and lightweight.

Here's what we are starting with...
http://www.cgulltech.com/photos/guns/colt_ltwt3.jpg

I will be swapping out the upper receiver for a Colt flat top. Barrel stays, it's a Colt 1x7

Thinking of replacing the stock for a CTR. check. Or B5 Sopmod, Magpul ACS or STR Maybe a MOE+ grip and new trigger guard too.

I need a light, which one? Which mount? Surefire or a small Bayo Lug Rail with Streamlight TLR-2 that has the built in laser. Good for those old eyes like I have too. Pro Mag has the Bayo Rail for about $30. Basically identical to the $50 ones from BLAM

Optic? BUIS? Optic- Aimpoint PRO, T1 or EoTech. I lean slightly towards the Aimpoints. Just personal pref. though. BUIS- Several good options. I like Troy. Many will disagree but I like Magpul MOEs too. Way tougher than they are given credit.


I like what you have. Always liked those uppers. Looks light and handy. Too bad irons won't work for you. I might have suggested just a light. But being that won't work I added above.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 2:35:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By camoman33935:
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Well at 50+ years old, my eyes could use some help.

Thanks for the cools kids comment. It's like getting carded when buying beer.


If you need the optic to help increase your sighting ability then I would most definitely agree with getting one. Just make sure to look through a few different types to make sure your eyes will work with the optic. I have a bad astigmatism and cannot use red dot sights so I'm stuck with irons or a regular rifle scope. You will just have to find out what works for you.

No disrespect was meant by the cool kids comment


You may want to explore a low powered ACOG like the 1.5x models - it's a scope, so it may "defeat" your astigmatism, but it's almost as fast as an RDS, and better than irons alone.

~Augee


Thanks for the suggestion Augee. I was thinking of looking at an ACOG or the reflex sight that Trijicon offers but have not had the chance to look through any as most of the local gun stores either carry EOTECHS or Aimpoints.

Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:02:19 PM EST
For a home defense type AR, I went back to just about what you have now. I removed the EOTech and BUIS,added a carry handle and bayonet(I bought one just because), I'm looking at lights and mounts tonight. that's it, KISS 16" middy.
. All the fancy stuff is on the 18".
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:22:09 PM EST
Page 2

* 12" SAR ver2 forend or Centurion Arms C4 12" forend.
* TROY front & rear BUIS.
* Surefire M600C Scout Light with IWC SBR mount.
* Aimpoint Micro T1 2MOA with LaRue LT660 mount.
* Magpul MIAD pistol grip.
* Magpul CTR or STR stock.

DONE!!!
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:26:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2012 7:27:30 PM EST by N2CH_556]
Keep the MOE
IWC light mount of your choice... with quality white light of your choice e.g., scout, G2, etc
Larue LT660 + T1
KAC 300m BUIS
Done...
And, maybe lose the front swing swivel for some kind of SIDE sling swivel (if you can find one for a .625 barrel) or find some aftermarket IWC MOE QD sling mount type job.
...
Profit!


ETA: or lose the MOE, shave down the FSB to a low-pro gas block, and install an 11" Troy Alpha without the integrated front sight, and your options open up from there....
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:31:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By camoman33935:
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Well at 50+ years old, my eyes could use some help.

Thanks for the cools kids comment. It's like getting carded when buying beer.


If you need the optic to help increase your sighting ability then I would most definitely agree with getting one. Just make sure to look through a few different types to make sure your eyes will work with the optic. I have a bad astigmatism and cannot use red dot sights so I'm stuck with irons or a regular rifle scope. You will just have to find out what works for you.

No disrespect was meant by the cool kids comment


You may want to explore a low powered ACOG like the 1.5x models - it's a scope, so it may "defeat" your astigmatism, but it's almost as fast as an RDS, and better than irons alone.

~Augee


Why would you want any magnification for "HOME DEFENSE"?
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:51:00 PM EST
Yes, at 1.5X it may be a smidgen slower than an Aimpoint or Eothingy, but like he said, "...it may "defeat" [the OP's] astigmatism..."

Plus you get the benefits of no batteries.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 8:19:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By N2CH_556:
Yes, at 1.5X it may be a smidgen slower than an Aimpoint or Eothingy, but like he said, "...it may "defeat" [the OP's] astigmatism..."

Plus you get the benefits of no batteries.


True, but a good red dot like an aimpoint T1's battery will last very long.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 8:39:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Originally Posted By N2CH_556:
Yes, at 1.5X it may be a smidgen slower than an Aimpoint or Eothingy, but like he said, "...it may "defeat" [the OP's] astigmatism..."

Plus you get the benefits of no batteries.


True, but a good red dot like an aimpoint T1's battery will last very long.


OP never mentioned having and astigmatism. That was me. Augee made the reccomendation to me to try out an ACOG to see if it will work with MY astigmatism.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 8:44:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2012 8:59:42 PM EST by ezterra]
Originally Posted By camoman33935:
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Well at 50+ years old, my eyes could use some help.

Thanks for the cools kids comment. It's like getting carded when buying beer.


If you need the optic to help increase your sighting ability then I would most definitely agree with getting one. Just make sure to look through a few different types to make sure your eyes will work with the optic. I have a bad astigmatism and cannot use red dot sights so I'm stuck with irons or a regular rifle scope. You will just have to find out what works for you.

No disrespect was meant by the cool kids comment


Isn't that the whole point of an optic? To increase you sighting ability? I'm in Afghanistan currently, and I would never consider going on patrol without my optic. Why would I not use an optic? It's faster, more accurate, and easier to use. It allows you to have better situational awareness. Optics are not cool kids gear. No disrespect taken, I just wanted to make a point that to me, an optic is necessary, not optional.

I'm with Augee, I like Eotechs because of their reticle. Optics and reticles are all a matter of opinion and what the user likes. So see what works for you. I use a Surefire Mini Scout light on a Gear Sector offset mount with a Surefire pressure pad that clips in to the rails. The mount has been rock solid and the pressure pad, though expensive, has been a good investment for me. I don't have to worry about velcro tape or zip ties or the pressure pad slipping and moving around. The standard stock is good. I like Vltor E-Mod or I-Mod stocks. I have both. They feel the same, but the E-Mod has the strike plate and more storage compartments. My personal AR has a Troy sight, my issued M4 has an ARMS #40L. They have both been solid sights. If I had to choose one, I'd go with the Troy because it's much easier to employ, especially with gloves on. The Troy also feels more solid. The ARMS has some wiggle and is held up by spring tension. Whereas the Troy actually locks in to the up position. I'm sure there are less expensive, yet still reliable options out there, but this is what I have experience with.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 8:45:40 PM EST
Personally, I'd add a light and a set of night sights if you don't get an optic. You don't need to replace the stock, but the CTR is a good stock system. If you are comfortable with the sling that is on there now leave it, if not then look for another sling. I would also run an ambidextrous safety, as I do on all of my rifles.
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 8:41:24 PM EST
Why change out the upper at all. Add a good light mount that will hold a 1inch Dia flashlight that way you can add about 50 different types of flash lights on any type of budget. Get a good rock solid 50yd/meter zero with your irons, get some 30 rd mags depending on legality of where you live, add a simple MOE stock if you want, and a carry handle scope mount with a simple 3x9 variable scope for long range to help you old eyes. no need to reinvent the wheel. You got a good light weight Kiss rifle right now. If I had that rifle and home defense was the only reason I had it all I would add would be some higher capacity mags and call it a day. I would save the money your wanting to spend on it and use that cash for ammo, training and start laying some funds up for a Taccooly if I just had to have one.
Link Posted: 11/4/2012 1:34:40 AM EST
Unless your living room is 300+ yards, an Acog wouldn't be the choice for just home defense.

If you want a quality optic, an eotech exps-2 or 3 (if you want night vision capability) would be my choice. Going to be easier sighting in close quarters.

And the exps is quick detach, so if you also want an agog to pop on at the range to shoot distance and targets, it's a quick flip from home defense to distance.

Two scopes, two rifle options.
Link Posted: 11/4/2012 3:13:04 AM EST
Do not swap to a flattop. Use this config.

buy a Sure Fire M500... and T1 on the Carry Handle.


Done
Link Posted: 11/4/2012 4:24:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Why would you want any magnification for "HOME DEFENSE"?


I would not typically suggest magnified sights for home defense exclusive use, however, the poster that I responded to mentioned that he did not like to use "reflex" style sights because of his astigmatism.

I also have a slight astigmatism - apparently not worth correcting, since lenses to correct astigmatism are in general more expensive, and if it's very minor, most optometrists suggest simply living with it. For 99.99% of life's activities, you will never even notice it, however, this can have an effect on the resolution of small dots in red dot optics.

On the other hand, while I'm not certain of the exact optical principles at work - something about looking through the lenses of a magnified optic self-corrects the astigmatism - for example, looking at an Aimpoint dot without a magnifier looks like a red "/" to me, but when using the magnifier, it looks round.

Since the poster I was responding to was going without optics because he did not like RDS, I suggested that he use a 1.5x low magnification optic, which is almost as fast as an RDS, and may be easier for him to use if his astigmatism interferes with use of an RDS.

Arguably in CQB, a red / can be used just as effectively as a red dot, but for some it is more or less distracting to have to do some, and it makes grouping and zeroing frustrating, because it's difficult to get a consistent sight picture, do you use the top corner of the slash? The center? The bottom corner?

The EOTech is, in part, easier for me to use because when the 1MOA center dot stretches, it's still small enough to use, not always so with Aimpoint 2MOA and 4MOA dots.

Just different adaptations to different needs.

~Augee
Link Posted: 11/4/2012 5:06:23 AM EST
I appreciate all the feedback.

The upper receiver is getting replaced as I will be doing something else with it. So I thought it would be an opportunity to go with a flat top.

I've used an eotech in the past and liked it. I'm leaning towards a T-1 with a Larue mount. Does this cowitness?
Link Posted: 11/4/2012 5:25:28 AM EST
I really like your rifle.

I agree on using optic. I've got an aimpointe on mine I like the battery life.

You should think out adding a tritium sight post. That way it you can shoot in the dark w/o optics if needed.
Link Posted: 11/4/2012 5:29:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By 762minigun2:
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Originally Posted By Augee:
Mossie light mount, Surefire X300, RDS of choice.

Done.

ETA: Form 1, $200, 10.3" or 11.5" barrel. Form 4, $200, suppressor.

You're going to get a lot of recommendations for Aimpoint T1s and Troy BUIS. Both good, neither my top choices, but quite popular.

I'm an EOTech man, personally, and prefer KAC 300m BUIS.

For your purposes, however, a T1 might be better, smaller, lighter, and since you don't have to change batteries as often or check them as often, simpler.

I just prefer the EOTech's reticule.

~Augee


Sold on the light and mount so those are on the way.

The upper receiver is getting replaced so I'm still interested in hearing RDS & BUIS suggestions.


Ebay has several KAC 200-600m BUIS for less than $40


Those are stolen property.

Link Posted: 11/4/2012 5:45:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Augee:
Mossie light mount, Surefire X300, RDS of choice.



+1 I have the Mossie mount and it's good kit. If you want to go farther than that, I'd go with a mid-length flat-top and mount the optic of your choice. FWIW my "go to" AR is a Noveske N4 Light Recce Basic with a Mossie Mount, X300 and Aimpoint H1.

Link Posted: 11/9/2012 3:38:48 PM EST
Well I've got everything. Now I just need to get FALARAK off his skinny ass to help me swap the upper receiver.

Pics will follow when I get that done.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 3:47:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 5:00:47 AM EST by bigsapper]
Done...


Thanks for the help everyone.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 3:55:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 3:56:28 AM EST by Finslayer83]
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By camoman33935:
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Well at 50+ years old, my eyes could use some help.

Thanks for the cools kids comment. It's like getting carded when buying beer.


If you need the optic to help increase your sighting ability then I would most definitely agree with getting one. Just make sure to look through a few different types to make sure your eyes will work with the optic. I have a bad astigmatism and cannot use red dot sights so I'm stuck with irons or a regular rifle scope. You will just have to find out what works for you.

No disrespect was meant by the cool kids comment


You may want to explore a low powered ACOG like the 1.5x models - it's a scope, so it may "defeat" your astigmatism, but it's almost as fast as an RDS, and better than irons alone.

~Augee


It's how I'm about to roll.

ETA: OP please save that upper and build another KISS rifle on it.

Hell, you can mount a compact ACOG on the carry handle and add a light and call it a day.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:06:11 AM EST
If it were me (and it has been in one case), I'd just get an old Aimpoint gooseneck mount for the carryhandle and mount the RDS on that.
This is also a possibility:

http://www.cmore.com/scout.html

The C-More may not be tough enough for fulltime door kicking, but it should be fine for home defense.

Others have made good recommendations on a light. Flattops and quad rails are great, but you can still have a viable defensive weapon without them.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 5:49:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 5:50:48 AM EST by scudzuki]
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Done...


Thanks for the help everyone.


It's perfect.

Joe
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 5:59:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By charles_lee_ray:
Step 1: Add flashlight.

Step 2: done.


Link Posted: 11/15/2012 6:08:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By bigsapper:
Done...
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/407610_10151252470824059_1521524835_n.jpg

Thanks for the help everyone.


Nice!
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:16:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 1:20:36 PM EST by Colonel_Angus]
Originally Posted By gsd2053:
Looks good to me.


Exactly. I'd say stop right there. I do like the end result though OP. Looks great!
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:44:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 1:46:41 PM EST by TheJammer]
Aimpoint H1, Troy rear BUIS, Surefire G2 LED, VLTOR light mount, small rail section for MOE.

Done.

Got to this thread a little late.
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