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9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 4/6/2006 7:12:50 AM EDT
I am in the market to build a 9mm to use atop a SBR'ed lower and use with a EVO-9 silencer. I use the lower with a standard 11.5" 223 and a 10" 300 Whisper (once the barrel comes in).

I would like a upper that has a short barrel (like the TROS 5" from Henry) but do not need the 3 lug, just threads. Some sort of a carbine length handguard system (YHM??)

Any input on the total cost of SBR 9mm uppers y'all have built in the past would be appreciated!!

Thanks for your help!!
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:32:54 PM EDT
You can figure approx
$150-RRA upper
$150-RRA 9mm bolt
$20-CH handle
$100-YHM tube
$200- barrel
and some kind of flashhider.

I have both  5" and 9.25" TROS 9mm uppers with YHM tubes.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:37:04 PM EDT
Mine was $1100 with the tax stamp.

It is a pre-ban Olympic lower and the upper is a cut-down RRA.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:51:11 PM EDT
Upper cost broken down:
RRA 9mm upper $377
Integral suppressor conversion $250
Hahn Mag block $160
Eotech $299



Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:27:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bjgunner:
Upper cost broken down:
RRA 9mm upper $377
Integral suppressor conversion $250
Hahn Mag block $160
Eotech $299

img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/bjgunner/9mm_0389.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/bjgunner/9mm_0387.jpg



PLease tell me more about the $250 integral suppressor conversion!! Who did it?? I was going to buy a AAC Evo-9 and use the fixed barrel device, but that is a pretty pricey option.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:31:45 PM EDT
Remember if your can comes off and the barrel is short, you need two tax stamps
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:30:06 PM EDT
Henry over at title2 will thread the front of the Tros barrel's 3 lug system and leave the 3 lug functional like on some mp5's.  

That's what I'm getting him to do for my SBR project.  I've got an Evo-9 on transfer to me.  I figure I can use the Evo-9 on the AR with the Tros barrel threaded for awhile.  I'll get a 3 lug can or a SWR Trident when the funds allow it and use the 3 lug setup.

Steve over at Adco might cut down an RRA barrel to whatever specs you want.  You would have to check with him.

You can't go wrong with either of them.  They are both great guys.

Right now, here's the prices that I've got worked out:
RRA upper $150  
RRA bolt $150
Tros 5" barrel 3 lug threaded $240
RRA mag block $125
YHM quad lightweight rail $95
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:50:48 PM EDT
I am about to go the SBR route on a few guns. I saw were U are only allowed one upper with one SBR lower unless U only own SBR lowers. Kind of sucks the ATF rules do.  
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:55:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 6:00:56 AM EDT by SBR7_11]

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:
I am about to go the SBR route on a few guns. I saw were U are only allowed one upper with one SBR lower unless U only own SBR lowers. Kind of sucks the ATF rules do.  



[Sherman T Potter] Horse HOCKIE! [/Sherman T Potter]

Here is my rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" or less than 26" OAL.....



Not seen in the pic is the COLT and Ciener 22LR kits....  
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:09:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:
I am about to go the SBR route on a few guns. I saw were U are only allowed one upper with one SBR lower unless U only own SBR lowers. Kind of sucks the ATF rules do.  



[Sherman T Potter] Horse HOCKIE! [/Sherman T Potter]

Here is my rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" or less than 26" OAL.....

img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/capttoyota/ARSBRset.jpg

Not seen in the pic is the COLT and Ciener 22LR kits....  

OH well every letter that I have seen asking about it says no.  HERE The BATF letter that I've seen says that you shouldn't have spare short barrel uppers around if you also own a non-SBR AR-15.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS WASHINGTON, DC 20226
MAR 29 2000

Dear Mr. :

This refers to your letter of January 22, 1999, requesting information on the legality of possessing a registered full auto AR15 and also possessing one or more semiautomatic pre-1994 assembled AR15 rifles. You appended a number of specific questions relating to this subject which will be answered in the order received.

Is it legal to own both?

There are no provisions under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) or the National Firearms Act (NFA) that prevent an individual from possessing an AR15 registered machinegun and one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles at the same time.

If legal to own both, which spare parts for the registered gun can you also own?

Any weapon which shoots automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger meets the definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) of the NFA. An AR15 rifle which is assembled with certain M16 machinegun fire control components, and which is capable of shooting automatically is a machinegun as defined. The definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) also includes any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. Thus, an AR15 rifle possessed with separate M16 machinegun components can meet the definition of a machinegun, if the rifle shoots automatically when the components are installed. The fact that a person lawfully possesses a registered NFA firearm does not grant authorization to possess additional non-registered firearms. A person who possesses a registered M16 machinegun and a semiautomatic AR15 and a separate quantity of M16 machinegun components could be in possession of two machineguns. We advise any person who possesses an AR15 rifle not to possess M16 fire control components (trigger, hammer, disconnector, selector, and bolt carrier). If a person possessed only the M16 machinegun and spare M16 fire control components for that machinegun, the person would possess only one machinegun.

Is it legal to use the upper receiver off of the semi-auto AR's on the registered AR if they are different lengths and calibers than listed on the Form 4's?

Before changing the caliber of a registered machinegun you should notify the NFA Branch in writing of the proposed change.

Can you have several short barrel uppers (less than 16 inches) for the registered AR and still own semi-auto AR's?

The definition of a firearm in section 5845 of the NFA includes a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. An individual possessing more than one short (less than 16 inches) barreled upper receiver for a registered AR15 machinegun (or SBR) along with one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles would have under their possession of control an unregistered short barreled rifle, a violation of the NFA.

If you change the barrel length or caliber do I need to notify your office if the change is not a permanent one?

This question was answered under Question 3.

We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely yours,
[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:51:22 AM EDT
Thanks for the info guys!! Just what I was looking for.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:33:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 8:17:57 AM EDT by gsu2720]
Caver, I have been looking into doing the same thing.  This is what I have come up with.  Why not buy the complete upper and have a smith cut and thread the barrel for you.

Complete RRA A4 upper  $405 - RBPrecision (includes bolt and charging handle)
YHM Carbine Rail  $87 - Eagle Firearms (when in stock)
Cut and threaded barrel $40 - AR15 Barrels
RRA Magwell $125 - ADCO Firearms

These don't include shipping costs.

Being a college student, I spend a lot of time looking for the lowest prices.  This seems to be $70-$80 cheaper than buying the parts and assembling the upper yourself.

ETA:  The RBPrecision price includes bolt and charging handle.  Shipping from RBPrecision, Eagle Firearms, and ADCO would total about $30.

By the way, AR15Barrels.com is a RRA and YHM dealer.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:03:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:
I am about to go the SBR route on a few guns. I saw were U are only allowed one upper with one SBR lower unless U only own SBR lowers. Kind of sucks the ATF rules do.  



[Sherman T Potter] Horse HOCKIE! [/Sherman T Potter]

Here is my rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" or less than 26" OAL.....

img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/capttoyota/ARSBRset.jpg

Not seen in the pic is the COLT and Ciener 22LR kits....  

OH well every letter that I have seen asking about it says no.  HERE The BATF letter that I've seen says that you shouldn't have spare short barrel uppers around if you also own a non-SBR AR-15.

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS WASHINGTON, DC 20226
MAR 29 2000

Dear Mr. :

This refers to your letter of January 22, 1999, requesting information on the legality of possessing a registered full auto AR15 and also possessing one or more semiautomatic pre-1994 assembled AR15 rifles. You appended a number of specific questions relating to this subject which will be answered in the order received.

Is it legal to own both?

There are no provisions under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) or the National Firearms Act (NFA) that prevent an individual from possessing an AR15 registered machinegun and one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles at the same time.

If legal to own both, which spare parts for the registered gun can you also own?

Any weapon which shoots automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger meets the definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) of the NFA. An AR15 rifle which is assembled with certain M16 machinegun fire control components, and which is capable of shooting automatically is a machinegun as defined. The definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) also includes any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. Thus, an AR15 rifle possessed with separate M16 machinegun components can meet the definition of a machinegun, if the rifle shoots automatically when the components are installed. The fact that a person lawfully possesses a registered NFA firearm does not grant authorization to possess additional non-registered firearms. A person who possesses a registered M16 machinegun and a semiautomatic AR15 and a separate quantity of M16 machinegun components could be in possession of two machineguns. We advise any person who possesses an AR15 rifle not to possess M16 fire control components (trigger, hammer, disconnector, selector, and bolt carrier). If a person possessed only the M16 machinegun and spare M16 fire control components for that machinegun, the person would possess only one machinegun.

Is it legal to use the upper receiver off of the semi-auto AR's on the registered AR if they are different lengths and calibers than listed on the Form 4's?

Before changing the caliber of a registered machinegun you should notify the NFA Branch in writing of the proposed change.

Can you have several short barrel uppers (less than 16 inches) for the registered AR and still own semi-auto AR's?

The definition of a firearm in section 5845 of the NFA includes a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. An individual possessing more than one short (less than 16 inches) barreled upper receiver for a registered AR15 machinegun (or SBR) along with one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles would have under their possession of control an unregistered short barreled rifle, a violation of the NFA.

If you change the barrel length or caliber do I need to notify your office if the change is not a permanent one?

This question was answered under Question 3.

We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely yours,
[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch



It appears that the SCOTUS ruled on this in 1992. Cliff notes: as long as the only combination is
not subject to the NFA, and the components you posess are not illegal, you are legal. Link to ruling here
I have no idea why the ATF letter from 2000 would contradict this ruling. Maybe I am missing something.  
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 11:39:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gsu2720:
Caver, I have been looking into doing the same thing.  This is what I have come up with.  Why not buy the complete upper and have a smith cut and thread the barrel for you.

Complete RRA A4 upper  $405 - RBPrecision (includes bolt and charging handle)
YHM Carbine Rail  $87 - Eagle Firearms (when in stock)
Cut and threaded barrel $40 - AR15 Barrels
RRA Magwell $125 - ADCO Firearms

These don't include shipping costs.

Being a college student, I spend a lot of time looking for the lowest prices.  This seems to be $70-$80 cheaper than buying the parts and assembling the upper yourself.

ETA:  The RBPrecision price includes bolt and charging handle.  Shipping from RBPrecision, Eagle Firearms, and ADCO would total about $30.

By the way, AR15Barrels.com is a RRA and YHM dealer.




THANKS for the info! The best price I had found on the complete upper was $419. Don't count on Randall at AR15barrels.com to get to that barrel cut and thread quick, I have had a 300 Whisper SBR barrel on order since December or January (been so long I can't remember any more ). He's a good guy, but don't get in a hurry.

I am gonna contact Keith @ NFA Investments to see what he can do. My dealer just got in 30 registered silencer tubes without any guts in them and I want to see what someone would charge to build the baffles and end caps.

BTW: This is going on a SBR lower and I would like the shortest barrel/suppressor possible.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:00:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 5:00:42 AM EDT by cajunboy]

Originally Posted By caver101:

THANKS for the info! The best price I had found on the complete upper was $419. Don't count on Randall at AR15barrels.com to get to that barrel cut and thread quick, I have had a 300 Whisper SBR barrel on order since December or January (been so long I can't remember any more ). He's a good guy, but don't get in a hurry.



I wonderd about that. The lead time on his site says "in by thrusday, out by tuesday."
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:30:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cajunboy:

Originally Posted By caver101:

THANKS for the info! The best price I had found on the complete upper was $419. Don't count on Randall at AR15barrels.com to get to that barrel cut and thread quick, I have had a 300 Whisper SBR barrel on order since December or January (been so long I can't remember any more ). He's a good guy, but don't get in a hurry.



I wonderd about that. The lead time on his site says "in by thrusday, out by tuesday."



Got an email over the weekend from Randall saying it will be another 4+ weeks for the 300 Whisper barrel

Like I said, he is a good guy and when the barrel arrives it will be done correctly.




Gonna give R&B a call about their 9m uppers!! Thanks!!
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:55:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By caver101:

THANKS for the info! The best price I had found on the complete upper was $419. Don't count on Randall at AR15barrels.com to get to that barrel cut and thread quick, I have had a 300 Whisper SBR barrel on order since December or January (been so long I can't remember any more ). He's a good guy, but don't get in a hurry.
I am gonna contact Keith @ NFA Investments to see what he can do. My dealer just got in 30 registered silencer tubes without any guts in them and I want to see what someone would charge to build the baffles and end caps.

BTW: This is going on a SBR lower and I would like the shortest barrel/suppressor possible.


That's an apples to oranges comparison, and it's unfair of you to blame Randall for the delay.  How is ar15barrels.com in ANY WAY responsible for how long it takes to ORDER YOUR BARREL?  He is at the mercy of the people he's getting the barrel FROM!


Originally Posted By cajunboy:

I wonderd about that. The lead time on his site says "in by thrusday, out by tuesday."


If you SEND HIM A BARREL, your turnaround time will most likely be just that.

I have sent him 2 barrels so far.  One was an AR10 barrel, SUPPLIED BY ME, and he removed the Armalite blast enhancer, threaded the barrel, and had it back to me within 5 days.

The last item I sent was a complete upper with a 14.5" CMMG barrel SUPPLIED BY ME to have the flash suppressor SUPPLIED BY ME permanently attached.  It took him a week to turn that one around as well.

I imagine that if I ordered a 6.5 Grendel barrel from him, it might take a while... But that wouldn't be Randall's delay now would it?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:27:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 8:45:23 AM EDT by caver101]
Easy there little fella, you do not know the whole story

He is building the barrel from blanks he already has on hand. You know, the left over stubs from normal length barrels. Mine is only gonna be 11.5" long

Plus he orig. quoted 4-6 weeks turn around time.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 12:38:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 9:43:01 AM EDT by Onslaught]

Originally Posted By caver101:
Easy there little fella, you do not know the whole story

He is building the barrel from blanks he already has on hand. You know, the left over stubs from normal length barrels. Mine is only gonna be 11.5" long

Plus he orig. quoted 4-6 weeks turn around time.


Well alrighty then "big guy", I got your story all wrong, but that doesn't change the fact that your situation is apples and oranges compared to a cut and thread on a customer supplied barrel, (which is what gsu2720 mentioned) so telling him "Don't count on Randall at AR15barrels.com to get to that barrel cut and thread quick" based on your unique order is still not a fair statement.

Based on my own personal experiences, "in by Thursday, out by Tuesday" is a very accurate depiction for what gsu2720 said he wanted, which was a cut and thread of a customer supplied barrel.  
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 5:04:40 AM EDT
My order is not unique. It is a standard order item from his site.

I am glad you have had quicker turn around times than me.

----------------------------------

To get back on topic:
Talked to Keith @ NFA Investments.com about one of his suppressed uppers and he is a heck of a nice guy! He even has a quick detach barrel option. Price is not to bad either.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 10:13:37 AM EDT
Eh, before we get "back on topic", I just had to come back and add this...

Right or wrong, I'm the a$$hole here because you're the thread starter.  I somehow forgot that by the time I hit the "reply" button, so

Little Fella
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