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Posted: 3/23/2013 10:28:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2013 10:31:10 AM EDT by rocus]
Helped my friend put together an AR, he went to the range for the first tome today and after 5 shots the lower snapped. Not impressed at all. I will post pictures when he gets here later tonight.

Second post of a broken ATI lower in the past day or so, not looking good.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 10:48:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2013 10:49:24 AM EDT by _DR]
If you are talking polymer, GWACS is the only one I would even consider. (formerly CAV-15).


Please do post the images, for the benefit of future AR15 builders who may not understand why copying an exact design in a different material won't work.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 11:13:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2013 11:13:58 AM EDT by HardShell]
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 11:27:26 AM EDT
I pity the fool who pays $350 for a stripped poly lower.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 11:30:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 12:38:38 PM EDT
waiting on pics...
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 3:43:23 PM EDT
here they are.... Anyone else in the s/n range of AR192xx have any issues




Link Posted: 3/23/2013 3:55:29 PM EDT
when assembling one of their other other lowers I noticed that they missed something, there should be a hole here for the detent and spring for the buffer. I think QC at ATI needs to step it up a notch. I have to send this one in to them to drill the hole, I've already spoken to them about it.

Link Posted: 3/23/2013 3:59:51 PM EDT
I'm not sure why people expect polymer lowers to not break.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 4:17:33 PM EDT
i dont often use polymers, but when i do i prefer GLOCK


its an AR15, why make it feel like an airsoft rifle? 7075 FTW!
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 4:26:18 PM EDT
I don't think anybody expects them to last forever, however, they should last a good while.


Torture test 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaFevpTka-I

Torture test 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qpnmi3XPP8

Torture test 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEAYW_2y4VU


Other video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncBnGkjMDJ0
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 4:37:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By okiejeff:
I'm not sure why people expect polymer lowers to not break.


Well companies like glock have made a name for themselves using polymer, my Springfield XDM has never had any issues either, nor has my S&W shield. When a company does enough r&d and has strict quality control it shows.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 4:43:12 PM EDT
Those ATI lowers should be .22 lowers anyways there the bottom of the polymer lowers.Basically garbage.If anything at least get a New Frontier(1400+rounds and counting) and if you want the top of the line polymer lower go with the GWACs/CAV ARMS MK11.There the best you can get for metal.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 4:43:20 PM EDT
Don't Glocks and other polymer frame handguns use some sort of metal reinforcement in their frames?
As to the poly AR lowers, all the failure pics I have seen have all failed in the same spot. They seem to break near the rear pin/threads, just like in the OPs pics.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 5:06:17 PM EDT
When will they learn.......
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 5:09:05 PM EDT
wasn't there another of these threads just a few days ago?
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 5:10:19 PM EDT
Garbage.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 5:13:36 PM EDT
Surprise surprise
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 7:20:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
If you are talking polymer, GWACS is the only one I would even consider. (formerly CAV-15).


Please do post the images, for the benefit of future AR15 builders who may not understand why copying an exact design in a different material won't work.


The GWACS folks are good people.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 7:57:51 PM EDT
Every failure has been in the neck below the threaded ring for the receiver extension. That area is constantly in flex torsion due to the buffer spring. Due to the polymer material being plastic and brittle, it does not exhibit the elasticity and strength present in aluminum. After prominent stress, failure modes occur from propagating cracks resulting from the torsional and shear stresses.

Simple physics.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 8:16:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rocus:
Originally Posted By okiejeff:
I'm not sure why people expect polymer lowers to not break.


Well companies like glock have made a name for themselves using polymer, my Springfield XDM has never had any issues either, nor has my S&W shield. When a company does enough r&d and has strict quality control it shows.


Yeah, but your Glock doesn't have the weakest point of the frame absorbing the most violent part of the recoil action. Comparing handgun frames to AR15 frames is not a logical comparison.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 8:23:31 PM EDT
Still have yet to see a new frontier break.
Link Posted: 3/23/2013 11:07:48 PM EDT
I know of a dealer up here that got over a grand for one on gunbroker.... He just posted it and watched it climb.
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 4:03:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2013 4:04:11 AM EDT by drmarc]



My ATI Omni went together easily with a complete Palmetto Arms lower carbine kit. No problems, everything fit well and topped it with a 223 upper firing 223 ammo. Fired first 11 rounds and found the receiver cracked in the area around the rear takedown pin. The fracture runs almost entirely through the receiver to where the web of your hand touches behind the grip, straight through the rear takedown pin hole. The whole rear(receiver tube/stock and tube threaded part of receiver) is almost entirely separated. Bought this just a few weeks ago from Palmetto.

Got an email today from ATI to call and get a Return Authorization in order to return. Frankly I would not use this for anything but a 22lr upper ONLY, (Posted this ionfo in another polymer lower thread as well)
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 4:35:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rocus:
here they are.... Anyone else in the s/n range of AR192xx have any issues


Considering there are good reviews out there about the ATI lowers and looking at the serial number range of the one above and mine AND the recent reviews on Palmetto Arms advising of the same exact scenario with fracture. I must take an educated guess and conclude that ATI has had a very bad batch of lowers made using an inferior grade of polymer. There are several fractures described in the last few weeks of newly purchased lowers on Palmetto Arms.

I just took a look at the Palmetto website and it appears that the ATI receivers have been totally pulled from the website. I suspect many calls have been coming in about this.
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 4:54:52 AM EDT
When I spoke with PSA on Monday they said that they had received lots of calls with the same issues I had, both with broken receivers and fitment. She said that they were considering pulling the product but they hadn't made a decision at that time. I was instructed to go through ATI for a warranty. I tried to express that I do not trust the product that ATI is producing and wouldn't build a rifle with one again, even if I was able to get a new one through warranty. I said that I wanted to return the ATI Omni receiver and get a refund, but she said they could not refund me since I had accepted delivery from my FFL. I am pretty upset that they are not standing behind the product that they are selling. I was instructed to contact ATI for a refund. I have used PSA many times in the past and have always been happy with their products and service that I have received, but this lack of standing behind the products they sell isn't giving me the warm fuzzes about ordering from them again.

I am less than impressed with ATI. I contacted them on Facebook with a picture and explanation of what happened. My post was quickly deleted, they did not bother to respond or try and contact me to ask if I was ok, or at least to make an attempt to correct the issue. I also sent them an email with pictures and explained what happened, it has been 4 days with no response ATI has been removed from the list of manufacturers that I would consider using.

I contacted my cc company and explained to them what happened with the lower breaking during use and they are working on disputing the charges.
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 5:56:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 6:31:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2013 6:34:54 AM EDT by Ar-Bret]
OP,

I know your angry about the lower breaking...and don't trust the nt one won't do the same thing.

I also know that Psa will help in any way possible to get this resolved...

But look at it from Psa...they paid ati for a product...added thier margin...and rebox...and etc...

They have invested in this product real dollars as well...

I can't see any retailer in a low volume business being able to absorb both hits to the bottom line...

I know you want it refunded, and you may be ale to get that from ati...

If Psa refunded you...they would be seriously in the negative on a product that they don't have production control over...

Now, if it was one of thier uppers, or even thier lower...I'm confident that they would refund you ASAP...

Ive been ordering from the on and off for years...and thier CS is great...they will help you with getting this resolved...but you can't expect them to refund you for another company's product...

Bret

P.s. Right now most gun businesses are way behind on calls and emails...but the deleting your post on Facebook is bs!

Post this on every board op, and even if you never get a dime from ati...it may help others from doing the same mistake...

It seems that ati hasn't tested or qcd thier product very well...
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 6:34:54 AM EDT
I understand that you don't warranty other companies products and don't have any issues with that. But, I was told I could not return the unused ATI Omni lowers that I have not done anything with. It is apparent that ATI has manufacturing issues right now and I would not trust one of their lowers for any builds for quite some time if ever. So now I am stuck with lowers that are unusable. I sure as heck am not willing to put another together to see if it will break during use again, as I am sure you wouldn't want to be the one to test it either.

I am not willing to risk injury to myself or others, these lowers are going in the garbage. I would rather lose the money than put someone at risk, it is a good chunk of money that I am throwing away by doing this. I'm sure you have some pull with ATI being one of their distributors and could have tried to help me with this matter. I expressed my concern about PSA selling a product and not standing behind it, but that got me no where they didn't seem to care and were more concerned about the money over their customer's safety. That is what I have an issue with.
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 6:45:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ar-Bret:
OP,

I know your angry about the lower breaking...and don't trust the nt one won't do the same thing.

I also know that Psa will help in any way possible to get this resolved...

But look at it from Psa...they paid ati for a product...added thier margin...and rebox...and etc...

They have invested in this product real dollars as well...

I can't see any retailer in a low volume business being able to absorb both hits to the bottom line...

I know you want it refunded, and you may be ale to get that from ati...

If Psa refunded you...they would be seriously in the negative on a product that they don't have production control over...

Now, if it was one of thier uppers, or even thier lower...I'm confident that they would refund you ASAP...

Ive been ordering from the on and off for years...and thier CS is great...they will help you with getting this resolved...but you can't expect them to refund you for another company's product...

Bret

P.s. Right now most gun businesses are way behind on calls and emails...but the deleting your post on Facebook is bs!

Post this on every board op, and even if you never get a dime from ati...it may help others from doing the same mistake...

It seems that ati hasn't tested or qcd thier product very well...


Being a distributor for ATI I'm sure they have some pull with them and could get some sort of credit. Heck they could even resell the lowers that I send back, but from what I was told that is not an option since I have accepted delivery from my FFL and I could have modified them in some way. I understand all this but for PSA to say they have gotten many calls about issues with the ATI lowers both with breaking and fitment and to keep sending them out the door doesn't seem right. That is why I believe PSA should accept some of the responsibility. They could let ATI know that they temporarily won't distribute their product until the issues have been resolved, and when they can confirm that there are no more issues begin selling them again.

Link Posted: 3/28/2013 7:00:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rocus:
when assembling one of their other other lowers I noticed that they missed something, there should be a hole here for the detent and spring for the buffer. I think QC at ATI needs to step it up a notch. I have to send this one in to them to drill the hole, I've already spoken to them about it.

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/rocus1/photo_zpsaa888461.jpg


I read up a lot on the ATI Polymer lowers, and it seems that the Rear Take down pin hole needs to be reamed out slightly bigger.
Some folks have cracked that same portion, just by tapping the pin in, let alone firing the weapon. So I'm assuming that all ATI lowers need this portion reamed out, so there is less stressed on that joint to begin with.
If you didnt ream it out, Then To me, I'm not surprised it broke at that particular joint. (Still Sucks I Know)

I did order 2 ATI Poly Lowers from PSA, but there were communication failures, in the end, my CC company cancelled the charges.
This was probably Karma...

I did end up ordering 2 New Frontier Lowers, and they arrive today at my FFL, So Far I have not heard of any failures on these, and with a Lifetime warranty, I can't complain.
I will post my build hopefully by tomorrow night.




Link Posted: 3/28/2013 7:02:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rocus:
I understand that you don't warranty other companies products and don't have any issues with that. But, I was told I could not return the unused ATI Omni lowers that I have not done anything with. It is apparent that ATI has manufacturing issues right now and I would not trust one of their lowers for any builds for quite some time if ever. So now I am stuck with lowers that are unusable. I sure as heck am not willing to put another together to see if it will break during use again, as I am sure you wouldn't want to be the one to test it either.

I am not willing to risk injury to myself or others, these lowers are going in the garbage. I would rather lose the money than put someone at risk, it is a good chunk of money that I am throwing away by doing this. I'm sure you have some pull with ATI being one of their distributors and could have tried to help me with this matter. I expressed my concern about PSA selling a product and not standing behind it, but that got me no where they didn't seem to care and were more concerned about the money over their customer's safety. That is what I have an issue with.


Ok,

That clears it up for me...

I do know there is some paperwork that would have to be done to " return" the unused lowers...I'm not an ffl so not sure how that works 100%

I do agree that Psa should help get this process moving along...

As for safety and satisfaction...I looks as they may have already pulled the products off thier site...

Now, I wouldn't throw them away...but I also wouldn't build one...

The position you in right now I call limbo...

You have one broken one, and others are having broken ones...

Ati has a liability with this product...

IMHO PSA could have handled things better...

What should be done is PSA should refund you thier markup, and ati should pay the rest...even a store credit for thier markup should have been offered...something...

I've owned my own businesses for many years in everything from consulting through flight schools...and CS is key...

Ati is in a bit of a sticky wicket here...if that lower broke and hurt someone they are now looking at much more than the product replacement...

I'm sure you will eventually get something from ati

I do use quite a bit of Psa stuff, and haven't ever had a problem with thier CS myself...

But, Psa is posting, and is communicating with you about this issue...

IMHO, going a bit out of the way retains and get new customers...

Psa should look at larue...they send with extra things and fun stuff all the time...even magpul sends stickers, and they don't really need to advertise much...

I've always went that little extra in most my endeavors and that is where customer retention comes from...

Op, I know your stuck in the middle and so is Psa...but, i know it will resolved somehow...

Now, comes the hard part...and where customers are won or lost...

Bret
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 7:10:45 AM EDT
How about, assemble the other, shoot the crap out of it, and when it breaks (because you know it probably will) - return it and decline a replacement, instead go for store credit.
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 7:14:11 AM EDT
The only thing i have bad to say about PSA is having to pay 10% restocking charge on the ATI lowers i ordered then canceled when i found out they were breaking.
In the long run i will be happier not having to keep sending off lowers under warranty.
I don't blame PSA and will to buy parts form them again.

The shipping is fast on other parts

Link Posted: 3/28/2013 7:14:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JedYonkers:
I pity the fool who pays $350 for a stripped poly lower.


Jesus... that's just dumb.
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 8:09:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bofessional:
Originally Posted By rocus:
when assembling one of their other other lowers I noticed that they missed something, there should be a hole here for the detent and spring for the buffer. I think QC at ATI needs to step it up a notch. I have to send this one in to them to drill the hole, I've already spoken to them about it.

http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b593/rocus1/photo_zpsaa888461.jpg


I read up a lot on the ATI Polymer lowers, and it seems that the Rear Take down pin hole needs to be reamed out slightly bigger.
Some folks have cracked that same portion, just by tapping the pin in, let alone firing the weapon. So I'm assuming that all ATI lowers need this portion reamed out, so there is less stressed on that joint to begin with.
If you didnt ream it out, Then To me, I'm not surprised it broke at that particular joint. (Still Sucks I Know)

I did order 2 ATI Poly Lowers from PSA, but there were communication failures, in the end, my CC company cancelled the charges.
This was probably Karma...

I did end up ordering 2 New Frontier Lowers, and they arrive today at my FFL, So Far I have not heard of any failures on these, and with a Lifetime warranty, I can't complain.
I will post my build hopefully by tomorrow night.




I have issues with two separate receivers one is missing the buffer detent hole completely as in nothing is drilled at all as can be seen in the picture. The other is the one that broke during use. I don't agree with anyone reaming out the hole on their own, if it breaks afterwards than ATI could easily say it was not done properly and wouldn't warranty the product.

Link Posted: 3/28/2013 8:17:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ar-Bret:

As for safety and satisfaction...I looks as they may have already pulled the products off thier site...



As of 12:14 pm today they are still selling them ATI Omni @ PSA it would be nice to see them pull them until the issues are resolved. It would at least show that they acknowledge there is an issue and they are trying to work towards a resolution with the manufacturer.
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 8:19:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
Originally Posted By JedYonkers:
I pity the fool who pays $350 for a stripped poly lower.


Jesus... that's just dumb.


Nobody said they paid $350 for a stripped lower, at least not in this thread. I think he read something incorrectly.
Link Posted: 3/28/2013 3:34:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rocus:
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
Originally Posted By JedYonkers:
I pity the fool who pays $350 for a stripped poly lower.


Jesus... that's just dumb.


Nobody said they paid $350 for a stripped lower, at least not in this thread. I think he read something incorrectly.


Plenty of people paid that much on Gunbroker. I had a PSA shopping cart full with the sole intention of flipping them for a killer profit. Couldn't do it. Wouldn't buy that crap no matter what.

Anyone who buys the plastic lowers at ANY price is ignorant, just some more ignorant than others. I still can't figure out what some people are trying to prove.
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