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Posted: 4/29/2005 4:32:32 PM EST
Go ahead....get it over with....laugh!!!!! My first attempt at barreling.


I bought all the correct tools, read the TM several times and read the thread in the gunsmithing section here several times.
Borrowed a torque wrench from work and set it to 31 lbs. Greased the threads and hand tightened, wrenched about a half turn before it "clicked". I thought that was too easy so I attempted to give it a little more, so my first tooth broke there. Not satisfied that this was good I decided to remove the barrel and try again. Wrong F'ing answer!!! This MF won't budge!!! I think I've done enough damage at this point and I just want the bitch off so I can buy a new delta ring and barrel nut.
How the hell do I get this thing free without breaking the remaining few teeth off?
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 4:59:55 PM EST
ouch
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 5:04:06 PM EST
I'll laugh as soon as I can stop crying!
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 5:16:55 PM EST
At least the barrel nut and delta ring are relatively inexpensive compare to the rest of the rifle. Of course, now you have to mess with the FSB to replace the nut. What kind of barrel wrench did you use?
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 5:19:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2005 5:21:53 PM EST by mongo001]
Ouch. If you need a barrel nut, let me know. I'll get one to you for the cost of USPS Priority Mail shipping, which is $4.30. I could even throw in a cheapy plastic delta to get you by until you could get a real aluminum one.

What type barrel nut wrench are you using? IMO, the GI wrench with the two or three prongs is a POS and very prone to taking out teeth like that. First, I don't torque barrel nuts anymore, as I found out numerous times that the 30-80 thing doesn't always work and I know if I'm even close to tight, I'm right around 30 ft/lbf.. Second, I use a wrench with much more tooth engagement than the GI wrench. YMMV.
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 5:21:56 PM EST
I've never broke teeth but I have bent them. What wrench are you useing?
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 5:27:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By LonghornAR:


What kind of barrel wrench did you use?



+3
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 5:29:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2005 5:29:53 PM EST by mongo001]
Oh, BTW, the barrel nut is FUBAR, so you could use a pipe wrench on it right now, as it will be relatively useless to you once you get everything off and disassembled.
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 5:31:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2005 5:44:46 PM EST by JOHN_E]
I was using the GI wrench even though I had A DPMS wrench sitting on the bench.
Problem solved, operator error. I'm going to keep the delta ring on this rifle to remind myself in the future to fully compress the delta ring while turning the wrench.
Oh well.....it was my first attempt and the rifle is ready for the range tomorrow.
Thanks!

Almost finished with this one, still waiting for the lower to arrive. This one will have an A2 stock when it's done but I'll test the upper tomorrow from my M4 lower half.
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 11:23:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2005 11:25:11 PM EST by R-32]
I have built 8 AR's and my last one turn'd out just like yours, I swear that the Nut I got from Bushmaster was just a soft POS...

anyway It work'd out, but Im still going to say cheap nut, I will be replacing it in the future, when I decide to cut off the Phantom so I can get the front site off. ( 14.5 w/ pinned FH)
Link Posted: 4/29/2005 11:44:07 PM EST
a little scar like that aint going to hurt the running of it.I'd plumb that sucker and show it off like a ugly newbon child.its all fun and games till you break out the bluewrench.
Link Posted: 4/30/2005 8:05:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By R-32:
I swear that the Nut I got from Bushmaster was just a soft POS...

anyway It work'd out, but Im still going to say cheap nut,quote]

+1

Did the same thing last week. Bushmaster nut & DPMS wrench. hand tightened, should function fine, but the barrel nut is fubar'd.
Link Posted: 4/30/2005 8:52:20 AM EST
I'm glad to hear that others have thought the Bushmaster barrel nut was a bit soft.....
Link Posted: 4/30/2005 1:14:48 PM EST
Channel locks. The barrel nut's gone.

Get a better wrench, with more engagement area. The 3-prongs suck.
Link Posted: 4/30/2005 1:48:06 PM EST
You were looking for the wrench to "click", that is, indicate torque? Duh.

Put down the torque wrench and step away from the bench!

Get a long 1/2" drive breaker bar. Use that. Just line it up.
Link Posted: 4/30/2005 7:19:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2005 7:21:17 PM EST by Knife_Sniper]
Get it hand tight and then line it up to the very next tooth with a breaker bar. Forget the ft. lbs. junk.
Grab barrel and receiver and wiggle them. If their is no play you are all go.

Insert gas tube and enjoy.

I dont have any problems with bushmaster barrel nuts. Have two barrels and they both seem sturdy enough. I took my barrel off and put it back on over five times in one week! (wasent happy with my configurations... ended up sending the barrel to bushmaster for service and got it back 2 weeks later.)
Link Posted: 4/30/2005 8:29:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I'm glad to hear that others have thought the Bushmaster barrel nut was a bit soft.....



I've had it bad with Bushmaster's barrel nuts too. I've f%$ked up four of them and still don't have a Barrel on an upper receiver because of Bushmaster's "WEAK" barrel nuts!!! Also I use the good Bushmaster and DPMS combo wrenches.

I'm so sick of shipping my barrel back off to Bushmaster to have them take off the FSB just so they can yet again put on another soft nut on my barrel only for me to f%$k up the teeth again!

Oh well, I still have one Bushy BBL nut to try and install my barrel with, I hope it works.

Link Posted: 4/30/2005 11:21:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By 556Cliff:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I'm glad to hear that others have thought the Bushmaster barrel nut was a bit soft.....



I've had it bad with Bushmaster's barrel nuts too. I've f%$ked up four of them and still don't have a Barrel on an upper receiver because of Bushmaster's "WEAK" barrel nuts!!! Also I use the good Bushmaster and DPMS combo wrenches.

I'm so sick of shipping my barrel back off to Bushmaster to have them take off the FSB just so they can yet again put on another soft nut on my barrel only for me to f%$k up the teeth again!

Oh well, I still have one Bushy BBL nut to try and install my barrel with, I hope it works.




Is your FH pinned?...

If not, why dont you take off your own FSB?
Link Posted: 5/1/2005 12:15:21 AM EST
I toss the upper in the freezer for a half hour and it comes apart easy
Link Posted: 5/1/2005 3:22:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By LonghornAR:


What kind of barrel wrench did you use?



+3



I dont know, but, I still cant see whats so wrong with an GI barrel wrench, the three peg deals. The engagement is thinner than the pegs are. So either the nut was too soft, or it wasnt being used properly to begin with.

If folks would start using their thumbs against the wrench to push the weld spring in while turning. i dont believe problems would arise as much. A lot of folks just stick the wrench on and start turning. Aint that simple.

so far as plain barrels are concerned, I wouldnt use anything but an GI barrel wrench. I just wish they made the same config. for the free floaters and thicker barrels.

IMHO
Link Posted: 5/1/2005 4:00:50 AM EST
Glad you got it worked out. I agree, the wrench with the prongs are a POS. I use the DPMS multi-wrench and use the side that engages all of the nut notches. Tried the prong side before and broke off the top of a notch, so I don't use that side any more. The full engagement works so much better.
Link Posted: 5/1/2005 5:04:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By scalawag:
I dont know, but, I still cant see whats so wrong with an GI barrel wrench, the three peg deals.



Ok, I'll tell you whats wrong with them. They have a much higher chance of boggering up a barrel nut! Three contact points is NOTHING compared to a armorers wrench with almost 100% contact on every lug. No comparison.


If folks would start using their thumbs against the wrench to push the weld spring in while turning. i dont believe problems would arise as much. A lot of folks just stick the wrench on and start turning. Aint that simple.


Agreed.


so far as plain barrels are concerned, I wouldnt use anything but an GI barrel wrench.





I just wish they made the same config. for the free floaters and thicker barrels.


Free float barrels can use a three peg style, because they have complete holes, not just lugs, which tend to be much stronger. Get an armorers wrench which contacts most of the lugs, and push in HARD with your thumbs to seat it properly, and I have NEVER messed up a barrel nut (I suppose it could still happen, just hasn't)
Link Posted: 5/1/2005 5:14:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By 556Cliff:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I'm glad to hear that others have thought the Bushmaster barrel nut was a bit soft.....



I've had it bad with Bushmaster's barrel nuts too. I've f%$ked up four of them and still don't have a Barrel on an upper receiver because of Bushmaster's "WEAK" barrel nuts!!! Also I use the good Bushmaster and DPMS combo wrenches.

I'm so sick of shipping my barrel back off to Bushmaster to have them take off the FSB just so they can yet again put on another soft nut on my barrel only for me to f%$k up the teeth again!

Oh well, I still have one Bushy BBL nut to try and install my barrel with, I hope it works.




Is your FH pinned?...

If not, why dont you take off your own FSB?



No my FH is not pinned. I'm just no good with a hammer and a punch.
Link Posted: 5/1/2005 5:18:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By 556Cliff:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I'm glad to hear that others have thought the Bushmaster barrel nut was a bit soft.....



I've had it bad with Bushmaster's barrel nuts too. I've f%$ked up four of them and still don't have a Barrel on an upper receiver because of Bushmaster's "WEAK" barrel nuts!!! Also I use the good Bushmaster and DPMS combo wrenches.

I'm so sick of shipping my barrel back off to Bushmaster to have them take off the FSB just so they can yet again put on another soft nut on my barrel only for me to f%$k up the teeth again!

Oh well, I still have one Bushy BBL nut to try and install my barrel with, I hope it works.




Hmmmm, I've never F'd up any barrel nuts using an armorer's wrench, and that includes a large number of Bushmasters, but then again, I gave up on torquing barrel nuts a long time ago, as I found it to be wasted effort. I also gave up using the GI wrench because, IMO, it is a POS, prone to slipping off and tearing up the teeth. As always, YMMV.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 11:01:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2005 11:02:39 AM EST by Homo_Erectus]

Originally Posted By JOHN_E:

Borrowed a torque wrench from work and set it to 31 lbs. Greased the threads and hand tightened, wrenched about a half turn before it "clicked". I thought that was too easy so I attempted to give it a little more, so my first tooth broke there. Not satisfied that this was good I decided to remove the barrel and try again. Wrong F'ing answer!!! This MF won't budge!!! I think I've done enough damage at this point and I just want the bitch off so I can buy a new delta ring and barrel nut.
How the hell do I get this thing free without breaking the remaining few teeth off?



The Torque Wrench Strikes Again!!!

See guys - this is EXACTLY what I've been talking about. This poor guy is so hung up on a magic torque number that he screwed it up - more than once!!! It's sad to see people thrash perfectly good parts over blind adherence to a bad procedure.


Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Put down the torque wrench and step away from the bench!

Get a long 1/2" drive breaker bar. Use that. Just line it up.



A_Free_Man has seen the light. What's important is not the torque value - lining up the notch is.


Originally Posted By scalawag:
I dont know, but, I still cant see whats so wrong with an GI barrel wrench, the three peg deals. The engagement is thinner than the pegs are. So either the nut was too soft, or it wasnt being used properly to begin with.

If folks would start using their thumbs against the wrench to push the weld spring in while turning. i dont believe problems would arise as much. A lot of folks just stick the wrench on and start turning. Aint that simple.



I've successfully reebarreled ARs with the 3-prong GI wrench - using a breaker bar. The GI wrenches are inherently unstable with only a few points of contact and the delta ring trying to push the prongs off the barrel nut teeth. Add to that a torque wrench that needs to flex and an operator who is more interested in looking at the torque wrench than the barrel nut and you have a recipe for disaster like JOHN_E has found out first hand.

So get rid of the torque wrench, use a breaker bar or combo wrench with a built-in handle, and most importantly WATCH THE BARREL NUT, NOT THE WRENCH!!
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 1:48:09 PM EST
I blame myself 110% for this butcher job not the barrel nut. Lack of experience (first build) did this, I just didn't realize how easy the job was and failed to fully compress the delta ring spring to engage the teeth.
"scalawag" nailed my problem here
If folks would start using their thumbs against the wrench to push the weld spring in while turning. I don't believe problems would arise as much. A lot of folks just stick the wrench on and start turning.

Mongo: I think I'll take you up on the new nut/delta ring if the offer is still good.
This is a an M4 profile dissipator barrel. Am I in for a special treat when two gas blocks need to be removed? Will I scratch the hell out of this new barrel doing the job?
Some better pictures

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 1:54:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By JOHN_E:
Mongo: I think I'll take you up on the new nut/delta ring if the offer is still good.



Check your email, John.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:33:38 PM EST


If folks would start using their thumbs against the wrench to push the weld spring in while turning. i dont believe problems would arise as much. A lot of folks just stick the wrench on and start turning. Aint that simple.




Better yet, put a machinist clamp (or a homemade facsimile) on the barrel to hold your wrench in place with the spring compressed - then you've got both hands free to do your thing
Link Posted: 5/7/2005 7:10:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2005 7:14:06 AM EST by LonghornAR]

Originally Posted By JOHN_E:

This is a an M4 profile dissipator barrel. Am I in for a special treat when two gas blocks need to be removed? Will I scratch the hell out of this new barrel doing the job?



If you punch out the pins carefully, they should not be a problem. Scratches will be more of a problem if your barrel was stainless but it isn't. The emphasis should be on removing the pins and protecting the finish around them.

Check out Falarak's tacked thread about installing a free float rail system. The concept is exactly the same.
Link Posted: 5/7/2005 10:32:38 PM EST
Thats crazy! I was listening to Pagliacci and BAM! i saw this thread.

that piece is also good to listen to when you see the pictures of the rifles that have been destroyed by third world country buy back programs. Makes me wanna cry just thinking about it.
Link Posted: 5/11/2005 7:25:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2005 7:30:07 PM EST by K9-Bob]
I wish I would have found this thread the other day. I did the exact same thing to my Bushmaster barrel. I ended up using a Dremel to cut the delta ring off and a pipe wrench to get the barrel nut free. I have all of the replacement parts coming from Brownells, but I'm worried that I won't be able to get the FSB off. I ordered the front sight bench block and the taper pin starter to remove the pins. I sure hope I can get them out. Does the freezer trick help with getting the pins out?
Link Posted: 5/11/2005 7:43:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By twonami:
I toss the upper in the freezer for a half hour and it comes apart easy



I learn something new every day on this site. Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:53:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 4:44:49 PM EST
OK I'll fess up, I overtightened mine during my inital construct.

Then I decided that was to much and tried to loosen it promply warping the Free Float nut and breaking one of the pins off my DMPS multi-tool .


I had to drill out the broken pin and insert a small pin to finish the job.

No damage to the barrel pin or upper.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:28:32 PM EST
I wish I would have found this thread the other day. I did the exact same thing to my Bushmaster barrel. I ended up using a Dremel to cut the delta ring off and a pipe wrench to get the barrel nut free. I have all of the replacement parts coming from Brownells, but I'm worried that I won't be able to get the FSB off. I ordered the front sight bench block and the taper pin starter to remove the pins. I sure hope I can get them out. Does the freezer trick help with getting the pins out?


K9-Bob

I've got a Brownells sight bench block and I love it. Just don't be afraid to hit the punch hard. The pins are tight. I feel sucure that the FSB is fully supported when I give it a hit. I used to use a lead block and it worked. I just fell better with the Brownells block. It's the right tool for the job.

Keep your powder dry!!!

BigHitter
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:59:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By ZW17:

Originally Posted By twonami:
I toss the upper in the freezer for a half hour and it comes apart easy



I learn something new every day on this site. Thanks!



I don't have as much experience as others here, but the freezer trick and the fire wrench have done wonders for me. A gas stove/range can do wonders, just go easy on the heat. I still use the torque wrench though, however, I slowly increase the torque setting and pay more attention to lining up the notch with the receiver hole than I do to the torque wrench.

The GI wrench does work, but the multi-tools are easier to use.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 8:06:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigHitter:
I have all of the replacement parts coming from Brownells, but I'm worried that I won't be able to get the FSB off. I ordered the front sight bench block and the taper pin starter to remove the pins. I sure hope I can get them out. Does the freezer trick help with getting the pins out?


probably not, something about the thermal properties of Aluminum and steel make the freezer trick work but not in a steel on steel situation.
I bent the crap out of couple of my drive pins in the process and mushroomed the sight pins so badly I had to dremel off the mushroomed sections. I believe your supposed to replace the pins with new ones, I did.
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