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Posted: 1/22/2010 3:15:25 PM EDT
I posted some questions about 5.45 uppers and a guy said the bolt on his rusted shut in a matter of hours after shooting corosive surplus ammo! Anyone else heard of this or had this experence? I shoot tons of it in my AKs and as long as I clean em in 2-3 days im good, not a spec of rust on any of them! He said it was so bad that he broke the charging handle tryn to get it unstuck. Does the corosive residue have any effect aluminum?
Link Posted: 1/22/2010 3:30:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgms:
I posted some questions about 5.45 uppers and a guy said the bolt on his rusted shut in a matter of hours after shooting corosive surplus ammo! Anyone else heard of this or had this experence? I shoot tons of it in my AKs and as long as I clean em in 2-3 days im good, not a spec of rust on any of them! He said it was so bad that he broke the charging handle tryn to get it unstuck. Does the corosive residue have any effect aluminum?


Not buying it...
Link Posted: 1/22/2010 3:33:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Originally Posted By sgms:
I posted some questions about 5.45 uppers and a guy said the bolt on his rusted shut in a matter of hours after shooting corosive surplus ammo! Anyone else heard of this or had this experence? I shoot tons of it in my AKs and as long as I clean em in 2-3 days im good, not a spec of rust on any of them! He said it was so bad that he broke the charging handle tryn to get it unstuck. Does the corosive residue have any effect aluminum?


Not buying it...


thats what im thinkin
Link Posted: 1/22/2010 3:39:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2010 3:42:24 PM EDT by Fields_Overseer]
bolt is steel not aluminum... i cant think of any chemical that, when dry would "rust it shut"... the only way it rusts is by reacting with water from the atmosphere. even soaking it in oxidized salt water would take a few days to rust shut.... he heavily neglected his weapon. also, oil will keep a barrier to slow the corrosion process. yet another reason to keep em wet.
Link Posted: 1/22/2010 3:43:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2010 4:01:41 PM EDT by d30gaijin]
First off, the bolt and barrel extension the bolt locks up with in an AR are steel, not aluminum. Be that as it may, while certain aluminum alloys are more subject to corrosion than other aluminum alloys (harder/higher strength alloys are typically more subject to corrosion than softer more pure aluminum alloys... and that is in reference to bare aluminum alloys i.e., non-anodized alloys), they typically corrode at a slower rate than do steel alloys. I suspect that the gent in question let his 5.45x39 AR sit in a very humid atmosphere for a longer period than he is claiming or he took a rather cold firearm into a very warm house and left it (possibly cased) with the bolt closed. Condensation builds up on all surfaces when an item, be it a weapon, camera, telescope, etc. is very cold and taken into a warm house. A friend of mine found that out the hard way when he brought his beautiful blue steel Sako cased hunting rifle in from a hunting trip and put it away without letting it acclimate to the indoor temperature out of the case with the bolt open. He opened the case a couple of weeks later to find a thoroughly rusted and pitted blue steel finish.

I've been shooting corrosive primed ammo for years as well as black powder firearms and a few hours of not cleaning has never resulted in signs of rust unless I neglected to air the arm out or clean it right a way if it was wet.
Link Posted: 1/22/2010 3:53:24 PM EDT
Nope, not that quick.
Link Posted: 1/22/2010 3:55:26 PM EDT
lies I tell you!!!
Link Posted: 1/22/2010 3:56:47 PM EDT
I had one and it never rusted. I have never had issues with my ak74 either. Unless you are in a very humid environment you have plenty of time to get it cleaned before it rusts.
Link Posted: 1/22/2010 3:56:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2010 3:58:05 PM EDT by sequel]
too slow I am.
Link Posted: 1/22/2010 3:59:05 PM EDT
I don't know about a few hours, but I know a guy who didn't clean his SKS for a couple weeks and had the gas piston rusted solid in the gas tube.
He brought it over to me telling me it was "stuck". I soaked it with Kroil overnight and was able to get it open. The gas tube and piston were pitted, but it functioned OK.

Anytime corrosive ammo is used, it's best to clean as soon as possible. Hot soapy water is what I've found works best. I know lots of shooters recommend Windex, but I don't take a chance with anything but hot water to remove corrosive salts.

Link Posted: 1/22/2010 10:49:08 PM EDT
He is lying
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 4:30:46 AM EDT
Complete bull shit there. That guy must have something against surplus ammo or just an asshole. For him to tell you that he must be so stupid he probably used sulfuric acid to clean his rifle too.
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 4:44:07 AM EDT
Tell him I will give him $100 for the rusted ass upper and $50 for any remaining ammo and mags.
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 5:31:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Narc1911:
He is lying


He's not telling the truth either
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 5:39:42 AM EDT
I have used corrosive ammo over the years (dont any more) and never had an issue in my SKS or AK's when cleaned within a couple days. I did have one instance where I did not clean until 3 days later and noticed a very small amount of surface rust forming on the outside of the bolt and inside the reciever cover. I figured that was from the humidity factor as well. Sounds like the ops buddy got his dates a little fuzzy / was full of shit.
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 10:36:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgms:
I posted some questions about 5.45 uppers and a guy said the bolt on his rusted shut in a matter of hours after shooting corosive surplus ammo! Anyone else heard of this or had this experence? I shoot tons of it in my AKs and as long as I clean em in 2-3 days im good, not a spec of rust on any of them! He said it was so bad that he broke the charging handle tryn to get it unstuck. Does the corosive residue have any effect aluminum?


He evidently didn't know to use penetrating oil, then hit the butt on the ground. He also could have had another issue altogether, like a primer jamming the action.

Link Posted: 1/23/2010 12:41:53 PM EDT
The old Hakim rifles are filthy-running and typically eat corrosive 8mm and I had one for a while with no signs of rust even shooting sooty Romanian through a DI gun. Sold it recently though and my AR fund is growing!
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 12:50:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2010 12:52:13 PM EDT by Zack3g]
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Originally Posted By sgms:
I posted some questions about 5.45 uppers and a guy said the bolt on his rusted shut in a matter of hours after shooting corosive surplus ammo! Anyone else heard of this or had this experence? I shoot tons of it in my AKs and as long as I clean em in 2-3 days im good, not a spec of rust on any of them! He said it was so bad that he broke the charging handle tryn to get it unstuck. Does the corosive residue have any effect aluminum?


He evidently didn't know to use penetrating oil, then hit the butt on the ground. He also could have had another issue altogether, like a primer jamming the action.



the poster he's questioning is me.

i live in humid south louisiana, and was shooting my 5.45 upper on my M16.

Penetrating oil and buttstock bang? that's what broke my gasbuster charging handle.

That's how stuck the damn thing was. And yeah, it was like that a couple hours after shooting, the time it took to leave the range, grab a bite to eat and get home to clean.

ETA: i've never had a similar problem with my SLR-105, the worst I've ever had to do to get that gun running again was give the charging handle a good whack to free the bolt.
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 12:50:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brdvictim:
Tell him I will give him $100 for the rusted ass upper and $50 for any remaining ammo and mags.


Link Posted: 1/23/2010 1:04:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 1:08:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Originally Posted By sgms:
I posted some questions about 5.45 uppers and a guy said the bolt on his rusted shut in a matter of hours after shooting corosive surplus ammo! Anyone else heard of this or had this experence? I shoot tons of it in my AKs and as long as I clean em in 2-3 days im good, not a spec of rust on any of them! He said it was so bad that he broke the charging handle tryn to get it unstuck. Does the corosive residue have any effect aluminum?


He evidently didn't know to use penetrating oil, then hit the butt on the ground. He also could have had another issue altogether, like a primer jamming the action.



the poster he's questioning is me.

i live in humid south louisiana, and was shooting my 5.45 upper on my M16.

Penetrating oil and buttstock bang? that's what broke my gasbuster charging handle.

That's how stuck the damn thing was. And yeah, it was like that a couple hours after shooting, the time it took to leave the range, grab a bite to eat and get home to clean.

ETA: i've never had a similar problem with my SLR-105, the worst I've ever had to do to get that gun running again was give the charging handle a good whack to free the bolt.
Your gun did not rust shut while you were having a hoagie Something else is going on.


well...i'm not sure how else to explain the rust that was all over inside the gun.

that was the one and only time i ever shot it.

I'll send an IM to the guy that has the upper, maybe he can post some pics. He was trying to fix it up, but last I heard from him it's more of a salvage operation than anything.

A mitigating factor here might be that it was suppressed, full auto, and shot in excess of 1k rounds on a very, very humid day.

I do know that the bolt was stuck, the flash suppressor/can mount was virtually welded in place, the gas block in atrocious condition, and he said the bore wasn't all that pretty either.
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 1:08:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2010 1:10:14 PM EDT by ZedsDeadBaby]
CRAP!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 1:11:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2010 1:14:02 PM EDT by Zack3g]
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
Bullshit.

It'll rust over time, but the fact that the guy didn't clean or at least neutralize the corrosive salts after shooting means he is full of shit.

Everyone knows about windex, and people generally dont buy this type of upper unless they know about the ammo.




"the guy" here.

I've been shooting 5.45 corrosive for a long time, and I've never had an issue with any of my AK rifles sticking up like this when waiting for cleaning them once I got home.

Something about the AR system + 5.45 + louisiana humidity = massive fail.

BTW...windex does virtually nothing..it's the water that washes away the corrosive salts..not the ammonia.
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 1:19:41 PM EDT
I can see it in full auto. In training we've had M249 barrels rust just from getting so hot and reacting with the (humid) air in NC. Add corrosive salts, a suppressor etc. Also seen blank firing adapters welded to 249 flash hiders.

That said, the fastest I've ever seen rust from corrosive ammo personally was around 6 hours, shooting some nasty old 7.62x54r ammo on a hot humid VA day. (Mosin nagant, maybe 60-80 rounds fired)
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 2:48:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
Bullshit.

It'll rust over time, but the fact that the guy didn't clean or at least neutralize the corrosive salts after shooting means he is full of shit.

Everyone knows about windex, and people generally dont buy this type of upper unless they know about the ammo.




"the guy" here.

I've been shooting 5.45 corrosive for a long time, and I've never had an issue with any of my AK rifles sticking up like this when waiting for cleaning them once I got home.

Something about the AR system + 5.45 + louisiana humidity = massive fail.

BTW...windex does virtually nothing..it's the water that washes away the corrosive salts..not the ammonia.


Sorry!

I edited my post before you responded. I thought it was some random guy talking out of his ass....


....sorta like I did.

Link Posted: 1/23/2010 3:23:50 PM EDT
I like the S&W 5.45 AR platform so much that I've invested in 3 of them and a lot of surplus ammo. I shoot them regularly and have never had the corrosion problems that some here want to attribute to surplus 5.45 ammo.

However, I can't beat the habit ingrained in me from the military (Navy Corpsman who learned everything he knows about the M-16A2 from Marines) of cleaning my weapons after every range session. I figure 1 hour after getting home from the range for a complete strip down and cleaning of weapons fired that day, usually 3-4 firearms. And I use hot water and Ballistol liberally.

I have 2 young sons and I expect to share my 5.45 ARs and ammo with them as they mature. I love cheap 5.45 ammo and I have had no rust or corrosion problems with it.

Also, I have a couple converted Saiga 5.45 carbines, and my experience with them is the same. Clean them with Ballistol and hot water and all is well.
Link Posted: 1/23/2010 6:19:42 PM EDT
I've seen M2 barrels get a small amount of surface rust that quickly. They start out well oiled, and after a few hundred rounds during a gunex, the heat baked the oil off and the ocean air started to surface rust the barrels.
Link Posted: 1/24/2010 5:17:58 PM EDT
Does anyone know if you can get the model 1 sales 11.5 upper with chrome bore and chamber? The guy on the phone said yes but in the Shotgun News ad it says 5.56 only next to the chrome option.
Link Posted: 1/24/2010 5:23:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgms:
Does anyone know if you can get the model 1 sales 11.5 upper with chrome bore and chamber? The guy on the phone said yes but in the Shotgun News ad it says 5.56 only next to the chrome option.


i would say that if you called model 1 and were told *YES* then that would be your answer.
Link Posted: 1/24/2010 5:51:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2010 3:30:45 AM EDT
Could it have been the laquer from Russian ammo that sealed everything up? I've never had any problem with it but I (and probably all of us) have heard the stories about the occasional bolt being stuck.
Link Posted: 1/25/2010 7:06:21 AM EDT
that was my gun...for you non believers, i actually have video of it rusting shut...lemme upload it to youtube...
Link Posted: 1/25/2010 7:35:30 AM EDT
I had a similar experience, but it wasn't "a couple of hours".

I've got a couple 5.45 Ak's, and shoot corrosive in them, never had an issue with cleaning them in a day or two, or even a week or two, and getting any rust. I got a custom 5.45 AR-47 built by Marty at Teppo Jutsu and the barrel is stainless steel. I have also shot that one and have not had any issues with having to clean it within a day or two, or even a week or two, but I DO get around to cleaning them within 2-3 weeks, so I haven't tested anything farther than that timewise.

Enter the problem, I got ANOTHER 5.45 custom build, FINALLY, after waiting over 18 months for it, shot 1 magazine (not even a complete mag due to extraction, possibly chamber, issues). Took the rifle home and went to check on it a week later and there was visible rust from the end of the barrel and IN the barrel. The bolt did not freeze shut, and I'm still going to send it to Teppo Jutsu to have the chamber reamed out to make sure that's not an issue.

I believe the rust issue is totally due to the type of metal in the barrel, not being SS, and not being CL.

I also have a S&W 5.45 and have NOT had the rust issue with that one either. ONLY with the regular steel barrel with no CL.

So depending on humidity and storage, and a little more time than was given in the OP, I could see it happening somewhat.

And TAG for the pics.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 8:23:35 AM EDT
Still waiting to see the pics on this one.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 9:10:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 9:36:42 AM EDT
Aqua Bump FTMFW!
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 9:48:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Originally Posted By sgms:
I posted some questions about 5.45 uppers and a guy said the bolt on his rusted shut in a matter of hours after shooting corosive surplus ammo! Anyone else heard of this or had this experence? I shoot tons of it in my AKs and as long as I clean em in 2-3 days im good, not a spec of rust on any of them! He said it was so bad that he broke the charging handle tryn to get it unstuck. Does the corosive residue have any effect aluminum?


He evidently didn't know to use penetrating oil, then hit the butt on the ground. He also could have had another issue altogether, like a primer jamming the action.



the poster he's questioning is me.

i live in humid south louisiana, and was shooting my 5.45 upper on my M16.

Penetrating oil and buttstock bang? that's what broke my gasbuster charging handle.

That's how stuck the damn thing was. And yeah, it was like that a couple hours after shooting, the time it took to leave the range, grab a bite to eat and get home to clean.

ETA: i've never had a similar problem with my SLR-105, the worst I've ever had to do to get that gun running again was give the charging handle a good whack to free the bolt.
Your gun did not rust shut while you were having a hoagie Something else is going on.


well...i'm not sure how else to explain the rust that was all over inside the gun.

that was the one and only time i ever shot it.

I'll send an IM to the guy that has the upper, maybe he can post some pics. He was trying to fix it up, but last I heard from him it's more of a salvage operation than anything.

A mitigating factor here might be that it was suppressed, full auto, and shot in excess of 1k rounds on a very, very humid day.

I do know that the bolt was stuck, the flash suppressor/can mount was virtually welded in place, the gas block in atrocious condition, and he said the bore wasn't all that pretty either.



I'm the guy that's got the upper. And Zack is no liar, and not very good at bullshitting. (lack of humor too.... )

If I had Zack's camera, and Stickman's mad-camera skills, I would post pics. I will see what I can do with a cheap digital camera my wife has.

And I tell you, the upper was as Zack described. Some of you guys really have no idea just how insanely humid it gets here in LA. I think it is a matter of what Zack described, and the direct impingement system of the AR.

Link Posted: 2/11/2010 9:57:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 10:00:55 AM EDT
I had some rust show up on the flash hider of my S&W upper, but that was after a couple of days, and it was just a light coat. No problem on the bolt though.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 10:12:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By damcv62:
I had some rust show up on the flash hider of my S&W upper, but that was after a couple of days, and it was just a light coat. No problem on the bolt though.


Same here. I have a KKF 5.45x39 upper that is on it's 6th tin of corrosive ammo and I never have cleaned it other than wiping down the bolt carrier & bolt then re-oiling same. Thing is living here in Idaho we are at 20-30% humidity most of the time.

Like the above poster mentioned I do get a light film of orange inside the flash hider but that goes away the very next time it's fired!

openbolt
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 11:13:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
[ Some of you guys really have no idea just how insanely humid it gets here in LA.


95% Humidity in LA is no different then 95% humidity in FL, AL, GA, VA, or even MD.


Hence why I said "some..." , Forest.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 11:15:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CA_TX-Cop:
Still waiting to see the pics on this one.


Stand by my friend....
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 12:26:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
[ Some of you guys really have no idea just how insanely humid it gets here in LA.


95% Humidity in LA is no different then 95% humidity in FL, AL, GA, VA, or even MD.


Hence why I said "some..." , Forest.


I here ya. Man I feel kinda sorry for you guys in the south ...

openbolt (rust free in Idaho)
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 12:45:54 PM EDT
1K rds in a singl erange session MAY have something to do with it...

I've had a mid 1980's 7.62x39 Colt AR Sporter that has digested thousands of rds of mostly Chinese corrosive ammo. I shot it a few rds a week for months and months before giving it a thorough cleaning with hot soapy water. BUT I would always give it a few good sprays of Balistol when I was done.

WHY I'm sold on Balistol.

FN in MT
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 1:01:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
Originally Posted By CA_TX-Cop:
Still waiting to see the pics on this one.


Stand by my friend....


I'm not saying it's BS, just that I want to see the pics... hence the smiling clown face.

I already posted that I was surprised to have a rifle rust in a week or so, when both my other rifles and ALL my AK's and PSL have never had that issue. So if the rifle in question is a non-chrome lined regular steel model 1 barrel or something along those lines, I just want to see it...

Link Posted: 2/11/2010 1:09:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MHP237:
1K rds in a singl erange session MAY have something to do with it...

I've had a mid 1980's 7.62x39 Colt AR Sporter that has digested thousands of rds of mostly Chinese corrosive ammo. I shot it a few rds a week for months and months before giving it a thorough cleaning with hot soapy water. BUT I would always give it a few good sprays of Balistol when I was done.

WHY I'm sold on Balistol.

FN in MT


Yes, 1k of corrosive tends to do that.......

I see you are in MT also.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 1:52:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 4:57:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
[ Some of you guys really have no idea just how insanely humid it gets here in LA.


95% Humidity in LA is no different then 95% humidity in FL, AL, GA, VA, or even MD.


Hence why I said "some..." , Forest.


My point being the operating conditions are no different from most any southern state, and nobody else is seeing excessive rust in 2 hours. Certainly not enough to lock the bolt up.

I'd agree with a previous poster and say it's more likely a primer was blown loose and is causing the lockup, I've seen it several times.


The lock up was caused by the gas key rusting to the gas tube.

This gun was run very hard, on full auto, with a can.

I bought the 5.45 upper thinking that it would be similar to an AK in that a simple cleaning with hot soapy water would sort it out and no problems would arise.

That just wasn't the case.
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 5:33:37 AM EDT
This rusting occured after just an hour, sitting in a vehicle after having been shooting in a rainstorm. That was shooting "non-corrosive" ammunition as well.


Of course, I'm not claiming this is a common occurence. This was the fasted I've ever seen rust accumulate on a weapon. I have seen an AK FSB rust after just a few hours after shooting corrosive ammunition even when it was not especially humid. On other occasions, if the gun was brought inside into a low humidity environment, there would be no rust after several days. I have a hard time believe the bolt was "rusted shut" after a few hours though.
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 6:06:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Originally Posted By sgms:
I posted some questions about 5.45 uppers and a guy said the bolt on his rusted shut in a matter of hours after shooting corosive surplus ammo! Anyone else heard of this or had this experence? I shoot tons of it in my AKs and as long as I clean em in 2-3 days im good, not a spec of rust on any of them! He said it was so bad that he broke the charging handle tryn to get it unstuck. Does the corosive residue have any effect aluminum?


Not buying it...


Neither am I. His bolt probably rusted shut after weeks of not being cleaned.
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 7:46:18 AM EDT
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