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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 11/15/2008 8:47:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2008 8:48:12 AM EST by capt512]
Good Afternoon,

Recently came upon a DPMS Panther M4 style AR and decided to purchase it.  It was a "lightly used, 200 round" rifle that a LEO had used as a personal gun and was forced to sell due to finances.  

Once I got it home I proceeded to tear it apart and start a thorough clean and lube.  Take into mind all my descriptions given are in comparison to my S&W MP15A with 200rounds down it.  The gun was filthy (had to soak it in CLR for almost 2 days to get it clean) and as I started to tear into it I started noticing things that needed repair, etc.  My biggest items I was unsure about are the bolt and carrier.

On the bolt itself the gas rings appear to be damaged, with 1 ring being burned up?? and bent and the two other rings not fitting, to me, as tight as normal.

On the carrier, inside the 'open area' (sorry I don't know how better to describe that) there appear to be gouges inside the carrier, but maybe thats just tooling from the factory?  Also inside the carrier where the bolt goes there appears to be possible gouges from where the gas rings on the bolt were messed up?? Or maybe again just tooling marks (supposed to be there?)

So my question is what all do you think needs to be replaced, with what parts would you recommend, and how many rounds would you guess have actually been down the gun from the wear?

Link Posted: 11/15/2008 8:59:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2008 9:01:20 AM EST by QUIB]
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 9:08:59 AM EST
Id say they had more like 2000 or 20000 rounds thru it. No way youll get that mess with 200rds, even with a RR running those 200rds continously.
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 9:11:54 AM EST
Yeah thats kinda what I was thinking...

Not a mark on the outside anywhere, but the inside sure seems to tell me a little different.  Hmm.

Ok, so right now just get some gas rings.  BTW for anyone looking for any DPMS has them for a dollar a pop now and actually has them in stock.  Most places I have looked don't have them in stock.
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 9:20:52 AM EST
I Would probably rebuild the bolt (not carrier). get new Extractor spring and ejector spring, strip it down, clean it really good with Brake cleaner, dry it off, and the lube it really well. Also take a hard brissle brush to the outside to get carbon off.

Assemble it, and lube the carrier and upper really good. Clean the bore and chamber really well b4 shooting it also.

Once its assembled and all back together, do multiple function tests,
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 9:46:11 AM EST
I have a repair kit coming in a few days with an extractor spring, and ejector spring, ejector, firing pin, etc, that I will be putting in and have already stripped it completly down soaked, scrubbed and lubed.  However I couldn't get all the carbon off the end of the bolt (that faces towards the rear of the rifle) soaking in hoppes and using a brass bristle scrub brush, any suggestions?  Will the brake cleaner work better for that?

The bore has been scrubbed and soaked clean as has the rest of the gun, and now looks like new.  (except for finish wear inside here and there).

Link Posted: 11/15/2008 10:30:46 AM EST
"lightly used, 200 round" since it was last cleaned, maybe.

The only way that's 200 rounds of wear is if it was shot with no lube, and filled with silica grit.

That is a good example of the worst machining I've ever seen on a bolt carrier. BSW
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 11:12:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2008 11:20:57 AM EST by QUIB]
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 12:07:27 PM EST
I agree the machining is pretty darn rough, def. not what I expected to find.
I just read the thread on carbon removal and am now trying the same to see if there is any difference.  It looks like some of mine 'may' be pitted too.
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 2:38:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 3:21:06 PM EST
Right now it is still soaking, as the carbon just doesn't want to come off, but I will double check it and if it still looks like pitting, then I will post pictures for ya.
Link Posted: 11/15/2008 4:05:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By capt512:
Right now it is still soaking, as the carbon just doesn't want to come off, but I will double check it and if it still looks like pitting, then I will post pictures for ya.

Carbon needs to be SCRAPED off. there really is no other way short of acid and even then..........

Link Posted: 11/16/2008 3:39:23 PM EST
You can always use a dremel with a stainless brush on it. Go SLOW and lightly.  It will come right off.

Link Posted: 11/16/2008 4:59:12 PM EST
There used to be a pinned thread somewhere on how to tell how many rounds had been fired through an AR but I can't find it any more.  And of course I'm not a "team member" so I can't search the archives.
Can somebody post the link?  and I wonder why it was unpinned.  I don't remember which forum it was in.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 3:26:32 PM EST
I knew DPMS was a low-end manufacturer.... but I didn't know they were that bad.

And that definitely doesn't look like 200 rounds.... I would see if the guys wants to take it back. I certainly hope you didn't pay anything near market-value for that thing.

Sure gives you confidence in the police, doesn't it?

I have seen a rifle, CMMG carbine upper 16", fired for a little more than 200 rounds with ZERO lube... pretty rapid fire, too. It had no wear near this kind of wear.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 1:59:40 PM EST
If you have some type of documentation, (email, etc) that states "only" two hundred rounds were fired you may be in good shape.  In that case I would take it to an gunsmith and get his professional opinion on paper.  If the gunsmith agrees that you were misled I would contact the seller and see how he wants to go about making it right.  Not an "in your face" confrontation but rather a more business-like approach.  If you have to really push it, (don't know what kind of money we're talking here), you could always file a small claim for the documentation and repairs.  It's only about $35 or so to file I think.

Except for once, the few times in my life where I've informed someone I was filing a small claim the situation was always resolved without me having to actually file.  Works wonders .....
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 8:26:43 PM EST
Gonna have to call BS on you here.  No way was that guy an LEO.  Cops don't lie.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:18:59 PM EST
It looks to me like you have a bad bolt carrier. I think what happened is one of those grooves in the bolt carrier was catching on your gar ring and tore it off. I would try to get a new one or sent it to the manufacture for replacement and I bet you'll be all set. I'd have to see a picture of the bolt face to take any king of guess at the round count, but I'm no expert.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 8:44:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By WaCPA:
Gonna have to call BS on you here.  No way was that guy an LEO.  Cops don't lie.

u are joking right
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 1:33:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 7:00:25 PM EST
Buy a new BCG and be done with it.
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