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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/30/2006 9:08:14 PM EDT
I took my rifle out for the first time and put 100 rds through it(Wolf). I noticed while stripping and cleaning the bolt that there is some hard residue on the tapered end near the gas rings that I/m having a heck of a time getting it off. I'm using Rem Oil and a wire brush from my WASR AK cleaning kit and it is still not coming off. It looks like the only way it will come off is if i scrape it off with a blade of some sort but I'm reluctant to do that just yet. Is CLP Breakfree something I should try next? Or is there a more heavy duty cleaner out there I should try? I don't want major build up so I want to clean it up before I take her out again....Thanx in advance...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:20:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 9:24:24 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]
Personally I do not sweat the carbon fouling too much.At one time I was using the brass center out of a stripper clip to scrap the fouling off completely after every use.But I found that its also somewhat hard on the finish.I get what I can off by soaking it down with oil or Hoppe's #9,then scrub a bit with a tooth brush.Once finished I coat the area with oil to prevent corrosion.The carbon can attract and hold moisture so a little oil helps.
The area I focus on is the flats directly around the gas rings and the gas rings themselves.I soak the rings with oil and allow it to float the fouling off and out.Otherwise the carbon on the boat tail is self limiting and will control itself with the high pressure gases that pass through the system.
That said I clean after every use,so the amount of fouling is minimal in my weapons.
As for the selection of lubes you mentioned...IMHO Break Free CLP is hands down the best choice over Rem-oil.But thats my opinion.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:01:31 AM EDT
I use a stainless steel wire brush. Somedays, depending on the ammo, that won't cut it and I have to scrape it off with a small tool. Some people will tell you that you can hurt the bolt by scraping on it. But I've been scraping and brushing it for years. And I haven't even hurt the finish.

Like the dude said... It's not critical to remove it, but there's no way I can leave it on there and sleep at night!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 11:31:33 AM EDT
You might try Slip 2000 Gas Piston and Choke Tube Cleaner. I saw it highly recommended in another thread and picked some up to try, but haven't used it on the bolt yet. I did soak a Glock barrel in it for a while last night. Rinsed with HOT water after removing it from the Slip 2000 and it was sparkling clean inside and out. Non-toxic and smells like citrus. I'm anxious to try it on the bolt but haven't done enough shooting to build up any real carbon since I bought the stuff...
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:31:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 12:34:50 PM EDT by QUIB]
I soak my bolt, bolt carrier and charging handle in a 50/50 mixture of Hoppes #9 and turpentine. This softens up the carbon and flushes away the crud. I also use this mixture to flush out my lower receivers and my upper receivers. An old turkey baster and 1" paint brush come in handy for that.

I have quite a few tools I use to scrape carbon, wooden popsicle sticks, wooden dowels, homemade aluminum scrapers, used bore brushes and brass brushes as well. I stay away from hard steel brushes, some folks may disagree but I just don’t like them. Even a spent cartridge case can be used as a scraper to get carbon deposits off of the bolt.

If you decide to try using the 50/50 solution, don’t dump it out after your done. Place it in a sealed jar, with time the residue and crud will settle to the bottom leaving clean fluid on top, ready for your next cleaning session. Pour out the clean fluid, wipe out the crud from the jar bottom and your good to go!









Link Posted: 4/2/2006 6:16:44 PM EDT
It is self limiting, but some choose to remove it.

I use carbon cutter from Breakfree (who makes CLP). Apply, let soak, wipe/scrape the carbon off. Others report that Slip2000's similiar product is very good.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:18:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QUIB:
I soak my bolt, bolt carrier and charging handle in a 50/50 mixture of Hoppes #9 and turpentine. This softens up the carbon and flushes away the crud. I also use this mixture to flush out my lower receivers and my upper receivers. An old turkey baster and 1" paint brush come in handy for that.

I have quite a few tools I use to scrape carbon, wooden popsicle sticks, wooden dowels, homemade aluminum scrapers, used bore brushes and brass brushes as well. I stay away from hard steel brushes, some folks may disagree but I just don’t like them. Even a spent cartridge case can be used as a scraper to get carbon deposits off of the bolt.

If you decide to try using the 50/50 solution, don’t dump it out after your done. Place it in a sealed jar, with time the residue and crud will settle to the bottom leaving clean fluid on top, ready for your next cleaning session. Pour out the clean fluid, wipe out the crud from the jar bottom and your good to go!

www.hunt101.com/img/391632.jpg

www.hunt101.com/img/391635.jpg

www.hunt101.com/img/391639.jpg

www.hunt101.com/img/391644.jpg





Holly cow...I thought I was a clean freak.
I hope you get,or rinse/flush,as much of the #9 and turpentine out as you can....I know #9 will form a gummy residue if allowed to dry on the surface.Particularly when heated.Not to mention the #9 is a mild alkaline due to the ammonium oleate it contains,which might not be so good for the aluminum and anodizing.Areas of concern for me would be the mix being trapped in between the barrel extension and upper,fire control and pins etc..
I just think this is a bad idea all around.No flame intended...just my honest opinion.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:28:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 2:30:03 AM EDT by QUIB]
Well I’ve never experienced gum or residue build up, the mixture evaporates rather quickly. As far as corrosion is concerned, I would hope that Hoppes would not attack aluminum like you suggest, especially when aluminum is used in weapons today i.e. AR’s or my SIG P225.

If Hoppes was that corrosive to aluminum firearms over extended periods of time I’m sure the company would put out some type of warning on the label. I like my 50/50 mixture and I’m going to continue to use it.

And yes, I am a bit of a clean freak.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:17:38 AM EDT
Thanx for all the info. I think I'm going to go with Quib's advice and try that as well as use Break Free CLP instead of Rem Oil. Again thanx for all the great opinions and experiences. Thats why I love this Board. Everyone tries to help everyone out, no questions asked.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:21:46 AM EDT
Mike,
Check out the Slip 2000 Carbon Killer (used to be Carbon Cutter) www.slip2000.com

E-mail them and ask for a small sample

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:22:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 5:36:02 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]

Originally Posted By QUIB:
Well I’ve never experienced gum or residue build up, the mixture evaporates rather quickly. As far as corrosion is concerned, I would hope that Hoppes would not attack aluminum like you suggest, especially when aluminum is used in weapons today i.e. AR’s or my SIG P225.

If Hoppes was that corrosive to aluminum firearms over extended periods of time I’m sure the company would put out some type of warning on the label. I like my 50/50 mixture and I’m going to continue to use it.

And yes, I am a bit of a clean freak.



The #9 has a pH over 9 if I remember correctly.Its also a bore solvent and Im pretty sure thats the way it advertised and intended for use.I have not seen an aluminum barrel.So I doubt there is a requirement about placing a warning on the label on the bore solvent about using it as a dunking solution for aluminum or disimilar metals.
I might be wrong,but there again maybe not.
Although the label does instruct that the #9 should not be used on nickel finishes and should be removed from such surfaces.I can tell you from first hand experience it will turn nickel some funny colors...or as some might say stain it.Not that this has anything to do with what we are talking about but its an interesting point.
The #9 will also form a varnish if left on the parts overtime,particularly if heated like when firing.Ive seen that first hand myself in the mistakes Ive made in the past.
That said,you seem to be happy with your procedure so it must work for you.I had no intention of changing your mind or procedure.Just gave my opinion to whoever might consider this method,and the fact that #9 is an alkaline,which is known to not be good for aluminum,much less anodized surfaces.My concern would not be so much as a corrosive state but the fact that it might remove the anodized finish and the protection it provides.Alkalines will cause aluminum to turn dull gray with extended contact,which is corrosion though.
That said Im not a chemist or expert,so this can be taken for what its worth.Again no flame intended,just sharing thoughts.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:38:37 PM EDT
I’m always open to suggestions or am willing to admit if I’m wrong. After your post I did some Googleing on Hoppes #9, aluminum and corrosion. I only came up with one definite hit on a forum where a member stated Hoppes will corrode aluminum. I also received a hit on a site that mentioned a police unit that used pure Hoppes as a flushing agent for their Beretta pistols and experienced gumming.

I down loaded the MSDS from Hoppes #9 and this is what it contains:



The only ingredient I see that might cause corrosion is the Ammonia which is at about 10%. My 50/50 solution is not even 50/50 but more like 25/75 so the Ammonia content in my mixture is probably cut in half.
I also learned that the reason Hoppes warns against using their product on nickel plated firearms is because to nickel plate steel, it must first be coated with copper. And we all know what Hoppes does to copper. People have actually experienced the nickel plating lifting and separating from their weapons because the Hoppes gets under the layer of nickel and dissolves the copper.

I’m going to e-mail Hoppes and see what they have to say about my procedure, and hey, if I’ve been wrong then I’ll admit it.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:57:36 PM EDT
I just shot this e-mail off to Hoppes, if and when I get a response, I’ll post what they have to say.

Michaels of Oregon,

I’ve been a long time user of Hoppes #9 Bore Solvent. As an avid AR-15 owner and shooter I enjoy the results I receive from Hoppes #9.

One procedure I like to use during cleaning of my AR-15’s is to mix Hoppes #9 with turpentine. The mix ratio I use is approximately 50/50 Hoppes to turpentine. I use this mixture to flush out the upper and lower AR-15 receivers, which you may already know are manufactured of aluminum.

My question to you is, are there ingredients in Hoppes #9 that over time can corrode my aluminum receivers? The fact that Hoppes #9 corrodes aluminum was recently brought to my attention on a popular AR-15 web site and I would like clarification as to whether or not I could possibly be doing unseen damage to my rifle.

Your timely input would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
XXXX XXXXXX
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 9:51:27 PM EDT
I for one will be interested in hearing what they say.
Heck send them a link to this thread.They can take a look at the pics and comments.
If they say no issues,then I stand corrected and will shut up.
But for me,the Hoppe's #9 will remain a bore solvent only.
Ive never needed a dunk tank or dunk solution either way.Good to know that there are more serious clean freaks than me though.I thought I was over the edge compared to most with my q-tip cleaning and inspection practices.
Either way thanks for the conversation...interesting topic so far.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 10:06:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 10:07:36 PM EDT by VAPORTRAIL]
I use the brass strip from an old stripper clip to scrape the carbon build up off of the bolt. Being brass, it will not damage the bolt. I finish cleaning the bolt with an old toothbrush dipped in #9, followed by a light coat of CLP.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:10:21 AM EDT
Another bit of input... I've found that applying a light coat of TW25B prior to shooting seems to reduce the amount of carbon build up during a range session. I'm no chemist so I can't argue the point, but it just seems to work out that way for me so far. Fwiw, it doesn't seem to be the same with CLP on the bolt.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:00:18 PM EDT
We’ll I have yet to hear back from Hoppes, so I started my own experiment.

I’ve placed a piece of Bushmaster Carry Handle in a container of Hoppes #9. Not the mixture I use, but PURE Hoppes. I’ll check back occasionally and see if it corrodes.







Link Posted: 4/4/2006 10:12:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 10:34:28 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]

Originally Posted By QUIB:
We’ll I have yet to hear back from Hoppes, so I started my own experiment.

I’ve placed a piece of Bushmaster Carry Handle in a container of Hoppes #9. Not the mixture I use, but PURE Hoppes. I’ll check back occasionally and see if it corrodes.

www.hunt101.com/img/392957.jpg

www.hunt101.com/img/392959.jpg

www.hunt101.com/img/392960.jpg




Like I said before,I do not think corrosion of the aluminum is the most in your face issue.The alkaline attacking the anodized finish could be with extended use/contact.Again I say could be as Im just guessing as Ive never had my upper or lower,or any other aluminum part of my AR in the #9 or any other solvent besides Mpro7,MC-25(which are cleaners) and what little solvent is in CLP,which is pH neutral.
To go off topic a bit more,there was a test recently,that included soaking bare and anodized aluminum in Simple Green.Which also is a middle of the road alkaline,and the pictures showed the results.Now Im pretty sure no one soaks thier AR's in Simple Green for any amount of time,but the effects on the aluminum and anodizing were there to see.Do a search for that one and check it out.
The #9 solvent goes in the bores of my weapons only,and as directed in the on the label.When cleaning of the bore is complete its dry patched out and oiled before storage.
If the possible gumming comment bothers you,then use the Hoppe's semi auto solvent.Its advertised to not cause gumming of parts in auto loaders and evaporates completely without residue.At least thats how that Hoppe's product is advertised.
According to what you say of your dunk mix,Im not sure that the diluted Hoppe's is doing anything positive or negative just as you commented.Seems you have been using this procedure for some time,so I think you would have seen the anodizing thin if it was going to happen.
But IMHO,I will not be soaking or extensively flushing any of my beloved AR aluminum parts in straight #9 or anything else.
Like I said I have no use for a dunk mix or tank.I have yet to see my AR's dirty enough that I cant get them clean with just CLP and q-tips along with a cloth.If they need flushed a can of brake cleaner can do all thats needed.At least that solvent evaporates out leaving no residue to mention.Again have not seen the need for either yet.Only weapons Ive had to flush was a Remington 742 and Mod.4...which are not easily field stripped as the barrel has to be removed to disassemble the bolt from the receiver.So a can of brake cleaner or Gun Scrubber is the most economical way to clean those weapons.
To tell the trueth Im not real sure why I even commented on your procedure as Im not a dunk solution person.Sure was not personal.Just struck some concerns I have I guess.
Like I said I had no intentions of a flame or personal attack.Nor did I set out to make you change your procedure.I was just sharing my opinion FWIW.
I will call the fine folks at Micheals of Oregon in the morning and see what I can find out on the topic just to settle my curiousity.

edit to add:
Your test results will be very interesting to see.Will tell more than what Micheals has to say Im sure.Very interesting.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:36:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 12:41:08 AM EDT by QUIB]

Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:
Like I said before,I do not think corrosion of the aluminum is the most in your face issue.The alkaline attacking the anodized finish could be with extended use/contact.Again I say could be as Im just guessing as Ive never had my upper or lower,or any other aluminum part of my AR in the #9 or any other solvent besides Mpro7,MC-25(which are cleaners) and what little solvent is in CLP,which is pH neutral.



Well I’ve been using this procedure for going on 6+ years on the M4gery you see in my experiment pic and have yet to see any ill results.


To go off topic a bit more,there was a test recently,that included soaking bare and anodized aluminum in Simple Green.Which also is a middle of the road alkaline,and the pictures showed the results.Now Im pretty sure no one soaks thier AR's in Simple Green for any amount of time,but the effects on the aluminum and anodizing were there to see.Do a search for that one and check it out.


I’ll have to look that one up to see the results. I was in on the original thread when it came out but lost track of it over time.



The #9 solvent goes in the bores of my weapons only,and as directed in the on the label.When cleaning of the bore is complete its dry patched out and oiled before storage.


Same procedure I use. Hoppes to clean the bore, dry patched, then CLP for storage.



If the possible gumming comment bothers you,then use the Hoppe's semi auto solvent.Its advertised to not cause gumming of parts in auto loaders and evaporates completely without residue.At least thats how that Hoppe's product is advertised.


The gumming comment bothers me the least because I have experienced 0 gumming.


According to what you say of your dunk mix,Im not sure that the diluted Hoppe's is doing anything positive or negative just as you commented.Seems you have been using this procedure for some time,so I think you would have seen the anodizing thin if it was going to happen.
But IMHO,I will not be soaking or extensively flushing any of my beloved AR aluminum parts in straight #9 or anything else.



I feel the mixture has positive results. And it’s not like I let the whole weapon soak over night. Instead of playing around with q-tips trying to clean my lower and FCG I flush out the lower with the diluted mixture. In 15 minutes the lower is dry or blown out with compressed air and CLP’d.


Like I said I have no use for a dunk mix or tank.I have yet to see my AR's dirty enough that I cant get them clean with just CLP and q-tips along with a cloth.If they need flushed a can of brake cleaner can do all thats needed.At least that solvent evaporates out leaving no residue to mention.
Again have not seen the need for either yet.Only weapons Ive had to flush was a Remington 742 and Mod.4...which are not easily field stripped as the barrel has to be removed to disassemble the bolt from the receiver.So a can of brake cleaner or Gun Scrubber is the most economical way to clean those weapons.
To tell the trueth Im not real sure why I even commented on your procedure as Im not a dunk solution person.Sure was not personal.Just struck some concerns I have I guess.



Brake cleaner, now that is one harsh chemical that sees limited use on my AR’s. Even though I use brake cleaner my self, it comes nowhere in contact with my lower receiver. Brake cleaner strips any form of lubricant from the pores of the metal leaving them totally unprotected. A shot of brake cleaner down the bore, or to flush out the lugs is as far as I go.



Like I said I had no intentions of a flame or personal attack.Nor did I set out to make you change your procedure.I was just sharing my opinion FWIW.
I will call the fine folks at Micheals of Oregon in the morning and see what I can find out on the topic just to settle my curiousity.



Oh, don’t worry. Until I see positive proof that my procedure is wrong or receive an email back from Hoppes, I will not deviate from it. And I’ve been doing it this way now for years with no negative results. And I feel in no way personally attacked, I value your opinion and have taken your comments into consideration.


edit to add:
Your test results will be very interesting to see.Will tell more than what Micheals has to say Im sure.Very interesting.


Link Posted: 4/5/2006 1:18:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 1:19:01 AM EDT by EntryTac]
Just a follow up on Slip 2000... Still haven't used it on the AR bolt, but I've used it a few times to clean pistol barrels after a few hundred rounds. We had our annual qualifying today and also went through basic ballistic shield training and I put a few hundred rounds through my Glock (including some NASTY fouling frangible ammo against steel plates and poppers) and 150 or so through my P229. I let the barrels soak in Slip 2000 while I cleaned the frames and slides and lubed them. After a 30 minute or so soak I simply took them out of the Slip 2000 and rinsed them in scalding hot water from the tap, dried the outside of the barrel with a paper towel, and ran a bore snake through to remove any remaining water from the bores. Both barrels sparkled like new. Couldn't have been any easier and I can't imagine getting them any cleaner.

Based on what I've seen so far, I have high hopes for Slip 2000 on the bolt... and man it smells good!
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:27:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 12:30:08 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]
I called Micheals of Oregon this morning and talked with the CS there.Extremely nice and helpful folks there.Excellent customer service.
I asked the questions I have commented on here.
The CS rep said that he knew of no issues with using #9 as a dunk solution.In fact stated that there have been many folks use the #9 as a dunk solution over the years.As for the aluminum and its anodized surfaces,there should be no negative effect using #9 to dunk,flush and clean any of the parts.It was recommended that the #9 be removed by wiping the surfaces dry.The only gumming issue would possibly be if contaminants and or fouling being mixed with the #9 overtime in the confined areas,but disassembly would eliminate such issues.Fire control and pins as a result should also be dried before lubing.
The CS rep had no information about mixing the #9 with other solvents such as the turpentine.
Otherwise had nothing but positive comments about using the #9 in every respect.
#9 is also,just as I did know,absolutely safe for chromed bores.
It was recommended that I look at and try the new Ellite line of cleaners,particularly the field cleaner.
So I obviously was wrong in my fears and stand completely corrected.I will shut up now.
I will say if anyone has any questions about the Micheals of Oregon products,call them.Its a very pleasant and informative experience.I will from know on.
Let the dunking continue.Sorry for the interuption,but its been some good conversation.Interesting too.Learn something everyday and its all good.
I may try your procedure the next time my Remingtons need to be flushed,rather than use the brake cleaner.Thanks again for the conversation and information Quib.
I would still be very interested in your findings on the #9 and aluminum test you have running regardless.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 1:00:56 PM EDT
[OCD] and just what's wrong with q-tip cleaning ?[/OCD]
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 1:58:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:
I called Micheals of Oregon this morning and talked with the CS there.Extremely nice and helpful folks there.Excellent customer service.
I asked the questions I have commented on here.
The CS rep said that he knew of no issues with using #9 as a dunk solution.In fact stated that there have been many folks use the #9 as a dunk solution over the years.As for the aluminum and its anodized surfaces,there should be no negative effect using #9 to dunk,flush and clean any of the parts.It was recommended that the #9 be removed by wiping the surfaces dry.The only gumming issue would possibly be if contaminants and or fouling being mixed with the #9 overtime in the confined areas,but disassembly would eliminate such issues.Fire control and pins as a result should also be dried before lubing.
The CS rep had no information about mixing the #9 with other solvents such as the turpentine.
Otherwise had nothing but positive comments about using the #9 in every respect.
#9 is also,just as I did know,absolutely safe for chromed bores.
It was recommended that I look at and try the new Ellite line of cleaners,particularly the field cleaner.
So I obviously was wrong in my fears and stand completely corrected.I will shut up now.
I will say if anyone has any questions about the Micheals of Oregon products,call them.Its a very pleasant and informative experience.I will from know on.
Let the dunking continue.Sorry for the interuption,but its been some good conversation.Interesting too.Learn something everyday and its all good.
I may try your procedure the next time my Remingtons need to be flushed,rather than use the brake cleaner.Thanks again for the conversation and information Quib.
I would still be very interested in your findings on the #9 and aluminum test you have running regardless.



Well thanks for calling and for updating us all. I will keep that CCH piece in the Hoppes just for shits n’ giggles. Hell ya just never know!
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:52:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VAPORTRAIL:
I use the brass strip from an old stripper clip to scrape the carbon build up off of the bolt. Being brass, it will not damage the bolt. I finish cleaning the bolt with an old toothbrush dipped in #9, followed by a light coat of CLP.




Gotta admit, I tried this for the first time today and it REALLY works. I sprayed a little Break-Free and then used the tit on the end of a stripper clip to easily scrape off the little mounds of carbon.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:46:04 AM EDT
QUIB,

I like the sound of your procedure. It looks and sounds fairly easy. My wife would appreciate me spending less amounts of time cleaning (equals more time with her). My only question is why the turpentine? Why not just 100% #9? Does the turpentine add benefit?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:32:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MarineDwg9:
QUIB,

I like the sound of your procedure. It looks and sounds fairly easy. My wife would appreciate me spending less amounts of time cleaning (equals more time with her). My only question is why the turpentine? Why not just 100% #9? Does the turpentine add benefit?

Thanks!



Turpentine or mineral spirits either way, I just like something to thin out the Hoppes. I’m just looking for a way to soak the bolt and b/carrier parts and flush out the receivers of large deposits. 100% Hoppes would get expensive and takes longer to dry than the cut down mixture. At one time I used pure mineral spirits or turpentine till I came up with the idea to add a little Hoppes to help with carbon removal.
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