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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 6/17/2003 3:10:02 PM EDT
I was wondering if anyone knew exactly what the outcome was of Bob Stewart's 2001 challenge of the ATF's juristdiction. The article:

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2019

Discusses the issue in detail, but I haven't been able to find out if any ruling ever came down about this, or if it's stuck in one of the system's cogs.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:13:53 AM EDT
So is there absolutely no information on this? I'd be really surprised if nobody in this forum had been following it. Sounds like it would've been quite a hot topic.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 6:01:49 AM EDT
here is a link to the outcome of the trial what a sad state of affairs http://keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2218
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 7:42:42 AM EDT
Man...hard to believe that something like this kangaroo court still goes on in this country. Just reminds you to keep your guard up, and keep your eye on your local politicians.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 7:45:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2003 7:46:00 AM EDT by Citabria7GCBC]
[url]http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2019[/url] [url]http://keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2218[/url] Made the links Hot for ya'll
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 7:57:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By greco: Man...hard to believe that something like this kangaroo court still goes on in this country. Just reminds you to keep your guard up, and keep your eye on your local politicians.
View Quote
AND...don't register or turn in your guns. You may need them one day.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 8:19:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2003 4:52:27 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Spoke to Mrs Stewart back when this was hot, as I almost purchased on of his 50 kits and had spoken w/ him a few times about them. Got the distinct impression from her (via our phone call) that the Sten tubes, which Mr. Smith was finishing for a friend was something he knew better than to do, but did it anyway, NOT a wise decision. Extremely sorry for the plight he now finds himself in, as I do believe it was the friend, who was originally in trouble and that he rolled over on Mr Smith to save his own hide. One of the BATF's preferred tactics..... Mike
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 8:25:24 AM EDT
I was reading about some other guy (can't remember his name) who was high up in the NRA who did something to piss off the ATF and allegedly a box of M16 parts "mysteriously showed up" at this guy's place of business... when they signed for the box the ATF was there with an arrest warrant dated for the day before. Sounds like evidence planting to me. The court originally threw it out, but when he sued the ATF to get his guns back ($30,000 worth), the ATF arrested him again and got him 4 years in prison.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 8:30:15 AM EDT
Here's that link... Al Woodbridge [link]http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Politics/Tax%20Cops/Big%20Al%20and%20the%20BATF/Big%20Al's%20Gunfight%205[/link]
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 8:31:44 AM EDT
...and the news link [url]http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=298[/url]
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 1:40:38 PM EDT
Sorry but I just don't buy it. I have a slew of attorneys in my family and we talk about this stuff all the time. If things were as bad as the story says, then the conviction would have been appealed and overturned. I mean comeon. The judge says the man on trial is guilty in front of the jury? I have a hard time believing that. Some times pro-gunners are just as emotional and irrational as the antis. I heard Larry Platt rail on State Farm because they didn't want to insure a guy with a gun range in his back yard. The guy let other people use the range. It was a law suit waiting to happen the first time an injury occurred. And as far as all I have read about Stewart from the pro-gun press... never heard about those STEN tubes until now.... Sheds an entirely different light on the topic, doesn't it.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 1:43:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: Spoke to Mrs Smith back when this was hot, as I almost purchased on of his 50 kits and had spoken w/ him a few times about them. Got the distinct impression from her (via our phone call) that the Sten tubes, which Mr. Smith was finishing for a friend was something he knew better than to do, but did it anyway, NOT a wise decision. Extremely sorry for the plight he now finds himself in, as I do believe it was the friend, who was originally in trouble and that he rolled over on Mr Smith to save his own hide. One of the BATF's preferred tactics..... Mike
View Quote
You do mean Stewart, correct?
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:29:14 PM EDT
criley, you must have taken the blue pill, huh?
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 6:35:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2003 6:40:55 PM EDT by Master_Blaster]
Possessing unreg'd MG's (irregardless of whether one believes class 3 registration is unconstitutional) is asking for trouble. I don't condone persuading or enticing someone to commit a crime - which is downright shameful - but the Fed's tactics should not be news to anyone who has any sort of experience w/ "black guns", especially class 3 ones. As well, anyone who has spent a fair amount of time on this board & others like it should know that playing w/ legal fire will get you legally burned. Mr. Smith may be a "good guy", but he played it wrong in this case. Why? Well, MG registration is not a new concept in this country. Maybe gun owners should have created a fervor back in the day when registration was first made a legal requirement, but they didn't. Thus, their inaction allowed the precedent to be set. Requiring nationwide registration would be crossing the line, IMO. I certainly don't intend to let the current legalese BS go unchallenged, skeptical though I may be, but I also know that once a law is passed, you cross into a new threshold that poses potentially dire consequences if your are caught out. He took the chance, & he lost. If he didn't have the stomach to pay the potential price, then he should've simply registered them (if possible), or destroyed them. Better yet still, don't even get into that mess. Again, I don't condone ATF (or any other) persuading or enticing anyone to commit a crime, but this is how they've always played it - always. Don't be bold beyond your capacity. If one does indeed possess contraband, one is indeed asking for trouble. I don't like many of the laws in this country, but there are certain realities that should be considered before taking any risk. It's just a good decision-making. Sorry if this sounds like a flame, because it's not meant to be one.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 6:38:45 PM EDT
From my understanding he didn't think he had any legal MGs...but I could be wrong. Either way, Mr. Woodbridge didn't have any, and he didn't order the box of M16 parts that mysteriously showed up at his store with 2 ATF agents and a warrant dated for the day before. He also would've walked had he not sued the ATF for his guns back. ATF's tactics are definitely questionable.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 7:05:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2003 7:08:39 PM EDT by Master_Blaster]
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: From my understanding he didn't think he had any legal MGs...but I could be wrong. Either way, Mr. Woodbridge didn't have any, and he didn't order the box of M16 parts that mysteriously showed up at his store with 2 ATF agents and a warrant dated for the day before. He also would've walked had he not sued the ATF for his guns back. ATF's tactics are definitely questionable.
View Quote
You'll get no quarrel from me there. I don't like bad tactics, regardless of the case. Power should be wielded judiciously & reluctantly, not w/ malevolence. The case you present is clearly one of revenge on the ATF's part. Consider these anecdotes regarding the Fed: * Strip searching grandma at the airport for fear she might single-handedly bring down the plane (But failing to heed prior warnings from a Florida-based flight-instructor about middle-eastern flight students being only interested in how to fly an airline-class airplane, & not take-off or landing procedures. * ATF agents committing institutional perjury: In an ATF training video, agents are - or at least were - instructed to testify in court that ATF registration firearm records are accurate, but the same video also states, "...this is not always the truth". * FBI agents knowingly work to convict an innocent man, who then spends the next 30 yrs. of his life in prison (& doesn't even get an apology from the DOJ after being released) I have serious reservations about this country's current state of governance. Too many are utterly drunk w/ their power, & don't even seem to give a damn if you know it.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 9:28:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2003 9:30:14 PM EDT by criley]
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: criley, you must have taken the blue pill, huh?
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No, I just like to deal with reality. And the reality is, there are many who like to spread rumors without checking the facts. And some pro-gunners are just as quilty as others. The simple fact is, that if the judge in this trial told the jury that the defendant Woodbridge was quilty before the trial ended, it would result in a new trial at the very least.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 3:38:55 AM EDT
You keep telling yourself that criley. Then take a good look at how corrupt our legal system has been in the past. This is the stuff they don't teach you in law school because it would demotivate the students and they'd probably drop out. The biggest tragedy in any of these cases is that the ATF knowingly took away these people's right to ever own a firearm again, making it very difficult for them to earn a living. What does this tell us? Get in the ATF's way and they'll disarm you permanently.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:40:42 AM EDT
Talk to ANY attorney and tell them that during a trial, before the jury deliberated, the judge said that the defendant was guilty in front of said jury. See what ANY attorney says. Don't tell me about your fears and how terrible everything is, just do it. There is much misinformation being spread around these days.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 6:04:29 AM EDT
REad the link and if Mr. Stewart thinks the courts are going to admit they are powerless he needs mental health help because he is delusional. I'm not saying he's crazy, just saying that without their power they are nothing, so they won't give it up.
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