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Posted: 12/19/2004 2:11:50 PM EDT
Black Hills 55gr FMJ is not much more $$$ than the XM193. How do these rounds generally compare for accuracy?

Thanks,

Steve
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 2:16:13 PM EDT
I bought both when I first got my AR. I didn't notice the difference, but I didn't use a scope or anything though. It's hard to tell if there's a difference when you use iron sights or an Eotech.

Just get the Federal ammo or Win USA.

themao
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 2:39:20 PM EDT
I would have to believe that the BH would generally be slightyly more accurate. However, you most likely lose some velocity compared to the XM193.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 10:41:34 PM EDT
The BH commercial 223 is quite a bit less "hot" than XM193.

In some barrels, XM193 shoots as well as anything. I don't see a reason to shoot BH over XM193 unless I want 68-77gr bullets.
Link Posted: 12/19/2004 10:50:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 2:49:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
The BH commercial 223 is quite a bit less "hot" than XM193.

In some barrels, XM193 shoots as well as anything. I don't see a reason to shoot BH over XM193 unless I want 68-77gr bullets.



But I do believe the BH has a lower speed threshold for framentation.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 3:01:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColSanders:

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
The BH commercial 223 is quite a bit less "hot" than XM193.
In some barrels, XM193 shoots as well as anything. I don't see a reason to shoot BH over XM193 unless I want 68-77gr bullets.


But I do believe the BH has a lower speed threshold for framentation.


Obviously true for the 68-77gr. Probably not true for the 55gr FMJ.
My "hot" comment was in reference to loads with the same bullet weight: the 55gr.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 6:33:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2004 6:36:33 PM EDT by gregw45]
Here's a 225yd group shot with BH 55gr. reman ammo. Rear sight was set at 8/3+2 IIRC, and POI was still a tad low.

Q3131a (don't have any xm193) groups with the same barrel hover in the 4" to 5" range.


edit to add one more group with flyer
Link Posted: 12/21/2004 7:02:15 AM EDT
All,
The BHA 223 FMJ is produced to SAAMI specs for pressure, so velocity will be less than milspec M193. The BHA 223 FMJ is produced using a Hornady produced projectile. Hornady makes a more accurate bullet than the milspec 193 bullets, and that generally shows up in better accuracy from the weapon. There are advantages both ways. If you are shooting iron sights, and the accuracy advantage is not significant , or if your gun needs the higher Milspec pressure for functioning, then you may want to go with the 193. If the accuracy is important ,you'll probably see a difference with the BHA. Another difference is that we use flash suppressed propellant in our 223 and 5.56 ammo, including the 55 FMJ. The milspec ammo generally does not have it. Re fragmentation, the Hornady bullet that we use has a commercial jacket. I have not done gel test comparision between BHA 223 FMJ and 193, but I would not be surprised if the jacket difference is a factor in gel . Merry Christmas to everyone! Jeff Hoffman
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 7:29:23 PM EDT
sierraeight

So are you saying that you believe that the BH 55 Gr. FMJ Re-Manufactured could possibly have a lower velocity fragmentation threshold than XM193?
Do you know what the approximate velocity of the BH 55 Gr. Re-Manufactured would be from a 14.5 inch 1/7 or 1/9 twist? I posted this question earlier and no one ever replied.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 4:58:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:20:02 AM EDT
As expensive as XM193 is, I am seriously thinking about using Blue Box 55 FMJ for the intitial break-in procedure for uppers. Now I really don't know much about this whole break in procedure, some say it is a bunch of BS, so I intend to get to the bottom of it.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=218920
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:46:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:18:16 PM EDT
Specter1975,
I'll test and let you know the velocity from a 14.5. We only make an FMJ in remanufactured. Our remanufactured is very good, but because I believe in Murphy, and do my best to avoid him, I recommend new ammo over reman for any defensive (or offensive) applications. Our quality controls are the same on both, the difference is any remanufactured (or reloaded ) ammunition uses brass that has been work hardened(if ever so slightly) by the process of being loaded,fired and resized. That increases the chance of a case separation. Case separations are normally a nuisance in training or informal shooting, but any malfunction is serious deal if someone is shooting at you. Reports to us on case separations are rare, but I have seen them. I don't ever recall seeing a 223/556 case separation with our new ammo.This is a long winded way of saying that while I suspect the Hornady 55 FMJ jacket probably does have a lower fragmentation threshold, the point is probably moot, because I recommend using the best ammo you can get for intense interpersonal conflict resolution, even though it costs more. That means new ammo.

Our reman is good ammo,and frankly I wouldn't even think twice about it if our reman ammo is what I had in gun at the moment I had to defend my life, but when you are preplanning for any such situations, I'd buy the best "new" ammo you can find. Use the reman for training and recreational use. Jeff
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:30:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:43:57 PM EDT
Specter 1975,
Velocity of BHA 55 FMJ from a 14.5" is 2713 fps. That isn't a spec, but the result of one test, of one sample, in one gun.Jeff
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:15:43 PM EDT
Sierraeight:

Thank you very much for your information! That answers a lot of questions for me. I agree with you on the factory XM193 being a better choice for defensive stocking ammunition. The problem is that I'm a full-time, 2nd year Graduate Student and funds are kind of low. My brother already bought 2000 Rounds of BH 55 Gr. Blue Box a few years ago and it has been kept sealed and dry since. I have bought 1000 rounds of XM193 as well as a few hundred rounds of M855 just for the hell of it and also a couple of mags worth of Hornady 75 Gr. TAP. I plan to leave the cases unopened and buy 5 or 6 loose boxes of XM193 to load and unload as a less serious situation may warrant. In any case until I graduate and can afford to re-place all of my defensive ammunition stocks with XM193 and M855 I was just wondering how well the Black Hills might perform. I think I'll leave the BH as reserve ammunition for now and until after I graduate. I just worry mostly about future wars and such that might cause ammunition shortages and such, as was the case during WW2. Now I know that might be unlikely but we can't very well predict what tomorrow might bring. Its better safe than sorry is all.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:42:40 PM EDT
"I just worry mostly about future wars and such that might cause ammunition shortages and such, as was the case during WW2. Now I know that might be unlikely but we can't very well predict what tomorrow might bring. Its better safe than sorry is all."

Take a study break Specter. Check out the ammo price list survey for xm193. Not that the prices are germane- cause it's going, going, etc. I am considering BH 55 FMJ as the next best thing, and posted a question in general/reloading asking for info re Black Hills reman and its suitability for reloading. I've been pleased with the performance in my (very) new Bushmaster Varmint Special. Unless I can find a better option, I'm going to probably scarf some up, as I'm down to <400 rounds.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:53:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
Specter1975,
I'll test and let you know the velocity from a 14.5. We only make an FMJ in remanufactured. Our remanufactured is very good, but because I believe in Murphy, and do my best to avoid him, I recommend new ammo over reman for any defensive (or offensive) applications. Our quality controls are the same on both, the difference is any remanufactured (or reloaded ) ammunition uses brass that has been work hardened(if ever so slightly) by the process of being loaded,fired and resized. That increases the chance of a case separation. Case separations are normally a nuisance in training or informal shooting, but any malfunction is serious deal if someone is shooting at you. Reports to us on case separations are rare, but I have seen them. I don't ever recall seeing a 223/556 case separation with our new ammo.This is a long winded way of saying that while I suspect the Hornady 55 FMJ jacket probably does have a lower fragmentation threshold, the point is probably moot, because I recommend using the best ammo you can get for intense interpersonal conflict resolution, even though it costs more. That means new ammo.

Our reman is good ammo,and frankly I wouldn't even think twice about it if our reman ammo is what I had in gun at the moment I had to defend my life, but when you are preplanning for any such situations, I'd buy the best "new" ammo you can find. Use the reman for training and recreational use. Jeff



so when are you going to start making red box 55 FMJ? (himt) I think with the current availability of M193 it would sell. BH is good products.
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