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Posted: 3/16/2005 7:46:44 PM EST
Hey all,

any problems with this ammo. I know it's not the 5.56 stuff the troops are using but for $24.00 for 50 out the door at a gunshow it was tempting to say the least. They didn't have any NonMoly but with all the positives of Black Hills ammo I figured I'd give them a try.

I have read that 4140 bbls have a tendency to pit after using Moly bullets but I'll be using them in my Bushy stainless Varmint. How's the SS barrels hold up to Moly?

Is there any tricks so I can get the most out of them? I don't really plan on using Moly all the time unless they are extremely accurate out of the gun. Only time will tell when I get a chance to shoot them.

I've talked to a few handloaders who did an experiment with Moly and NonMoly bullets. They said they shot the Moly bullets (about 20-25) to coat the barrel and then switched back to NonMoly bullets. The accuracy was pretty bad for the first 15 or so bullets but then the accuracy crept back towards MOA. Then after a quick pull of a Boresnake to get the loose stuff out they went back to molly. They didn't say how many shots it took but when they got done the accuracy was around MOA again.

Is this possible or are they blowing smoke?

If it's too much of a hassle using these things I might just sell these to a buddy and get the 77gr Non Moly so I don't screw up the accuracy of my Varmint.

Any help will be appreciated.

TS.
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 7:24:24 AM EST
Toxicsports,
I personaly like moly, but you have to know some things. I have heard the negative rumors about moly in general. I can't address all of them , because I haven't tested all the variations, but I can tell you Black Hills Ammunition has never had a single report that OUR process has ever damaged anyone's barrel. To use moly, you need to understand what I call the uniformity rule of accuracy. For best accuracy things should be uniform for each shot. That includes barrel condition. When you shoot moly ammo, the moly gets distributed into the pores of the metal. It takes 20-40 rounds to initially reach a stable condition in a bore that has not previously shot moly. If you shoot moly, it is best to not switch back and forth if you are trying for best accuracy, because you will be alternately laying down moly in your bore, then wearing it back off when you then switch to non moly. The accuracy will suffer while you are switching(generally not more than1/4-1/2 min increase) until the barrel stabilizes again. (about 20 rounds going to moly or going back to plain). You are not locked in permanently, but it will take about 20 rounds to stabilize when you switch.You will not hurt anything  if you try it, and decide to go back to non moly.
I like moly because I can shoot more with less fouling. that is the primary benefit. Cleaning is a little different also. It takes less effort to clean any fouling that accumulates. Don't spend a ton of time scrubbing because it's not necessary .If you have access to a bore scope, that is a good way to find out for yourself how much is enough. When you are done cleaning , I personally fire a fouling group, and put the rifle away fouled (cosider it a molytouch up for your barrel) That's what I do, and it works for me. If it sounds like too much trouble,we sell non moly too. thanks, Jeff
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 7:34:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 7:43:37 AM EST
My SHTF ammo is the non-moly BH blue-box 77grn. SMK, it's excellent stuff for M4 type AR15s w/ 1/7 twist bbls.

I shot moly SMKs for years in my long range AR15, but have since gone back to shooting "naked" SMKs, the moly made clean up take much longer IMO.

That and the fact that the old fellar who got us started using the moly bullets in the first place revised his opinion of them, so we've all gone back to shooting "naked".

Mike
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 8:03:13 AM EST
Brouhaha,
I do not ever oil a barrel, because I do not want to have a differnce for the first shot, or subsequent shots until I burn the oil out. In an AR, it probably is not a big deal,however.  I tend to think in sniper type terms, eliminating all variables for the first shot fired.
I have never seen any evidence of corrosion due to moly/humidity issues. I live in SD, not Miami, but then I haven't ever had a call from Miami re a problem with our moly either.  I had one of our test barrels sectioned once. It had 10,000 rds+ of .223 through it under bad conditions. It was NOT in a temp/humididty controlled storage/use environment (-30 to +110 in a 50' range trailer), it was cleaned pretty much only when it started to give erratic velocities, we shot moly and non moly interchangeably(we were not using it to test accuracy, just pressure and velocity). In short we did everything that was supposed to cause moly buildup/ corrosion/layering of powder-copper-moly, pitting due to sulfuric acid formation etc. When we sectioned the barrel the only thing apparent was the rifing was worn in the first 2" of the barrel due to firing 10,000+ rds. None of the other problems that people worry about was there.
 My current sniper rifle has just under 5000 rounds of moly 175s through it. I have never even had a cleaning brush through it. I use Iosso bore cream, patches and jag only. It still shoots around 1/2 moa for 5 shots. I keep the bore fouled all the time and it lives in my truck. The bore is still pretty. Thats what I have seen. People like to have something contentious to worry about . Moly seems to serve that need pretty well too. No insult intended to non moly folks. Jeff
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 9:40:44 AM EST
sierraeight,

Thanks for the info. I think I'll try it, to see what happens, but I may just stick with the "naked" ammo as mr_wilson put it since non-Moly is easier to come by in all flavors.  I'll be heading out to pick up some non-Moly 77's ASAP to try also.

I've been wanting a good reason to try my hand at building an upper so maybe a designated Moly upper is in the future?


TS
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 5:41:43 PM EST
I have been shooting the BH 77gr Moly (remanufactured) in my ArmaLite M15(T) A4 with a 1:8 twist.  My most recent group was under an inch (5 rounds) at 200 yards.  This ammo is fabulous, to the point I won't ever reload 223 again.  The barrel cleanup is incredibly easy.

I am even thinking of picking up some BH 168 moly for my .308.  I use nothing but Sierra 2200 for that rifle.  Best group (5 shots) .335 inch @ 100yrds.  (I did run a FinalFinish regimen on that rifle.)

I have tried other brands (Federal, Winchester, Remington,) and they are all good.  BH just seems works even better for me.

My only problem is I have to order the ammo on the web, nobody sells it locally, (I do try to support my local dealers.)  On the other hand, I buy in larger quantities. and cheaper than what I would pay locally.




(Too close for missiles, switching to guns.)
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