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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/25/2005 7:00:12 AM EDT
If you have been following this thread than you know how this load came about. For those of you that didn't follow that thread, well here are some quick specs. It's Black Hills 75gr BTHP with a sealed neck and crimped and sealed primer.

A couple folks including myself were interested in the accurecy of this load out of 1/9 twist barrels, spesificly I was/am interested in how it will do out of a 1/9 twist 16in barreled AR15.

So tomarrow I will head out to the range to check it out at 100 yards for sure, and than also if time permits at 200 yards. If I don't mak it out to 200 tomarrow I still plan to test it out at that distance, it might just have to wait till Sunday or Monday. We will also be running as many rounds as possible through a chrony. Sierra eight was kind enough to check the velocity out of a 16in barrel and reported 2511 fps, sd 10. Since I have access to a chrono I figured why not add to the data.



I'll update with results and pics tomarrow after I get back from the range.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 10:02:48 AM EDT
Sounds Great -photoman

I,ll keep a watchful eye out for your follow up report.

I would be interested in the BH 68gr stuff
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 3:40:48 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/27/2005 7:14:21 AM EDT
I shot 15 rounds at 100 yards yesterday. I was happy and un happy with the results. I used the wrong set up, the trigger pull on my EA lower is pretty roungh and I yanked a couple rounds. not including the yanked rounds two of the three groups were under 1inch.

I'm going to go out again later today and shoot a couple more groups but I'll use a different lower with a better trigger.

Don't know if I'll get it out to 200 today.

I wanted to chrony the rounds but the chrony didn't make it to the range yesterday(I don't own one)

I have the targets and I'll post pics later.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 9:43:58 AM EDT
Expensive at $599 for 1K delivered.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 9:48:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Expensive at $599 for 1K delivered.



You get what you pay for.

This stuff is about as good as it gets for "social use", unless you can get your hands on some mk262, which would probably be even more expensive on the open market.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 9:57:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dbrowne1:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Expensive at $599 for 1K delivered.



You get what you pay for.

This stuff is about as good as it gets for "social use", unless you can get your hands on some mk262...



I bought in on the GPSS 77Gn "Nato" order. IIRC the price was slightly cheaper than $599 per 1,000.
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 12:46:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2005 2:10:43 PM EDT by dbrowne1]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By dbrowne1:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Expensive at $599 for 1K delivered.



You get what you pay for.

This stuff is about as good as it gets for "social use", unless you can get your hands on some mk262...



I bought in on the GPSS 77Gn "Nato" order. IIRC the price was slightly cheaper than $599 per 1,000.



I don't recall all the specifics of that run - did it have all the same features (sealed and crimped primer, sealed bullet, cannelure, etc.)?

I'd say the only thing missing from this Creedmoor run is NATO pressure, but BH has already explained why they won't do it.

Also, the GPSS run was 100% prepaid, so there was no business risk to build into the price.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 6:59:19 PM EDT
$ 599 per 1k ? GHC thats almost 2x what regular BH BB 75 BTHP's cost ! What are you going to shoot with it really ? How many posers buying this stuff will ever shoot it " Sociably " ? Really ??
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 5:37:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tangeant:
$ 599 per 1k ? GHC thats almost 2x what regular BH BB 75 BTHP's cost ! What are you going to shoot with it really ? How many posers buying this stuff will ever shoot it " Sociably " ? Really ??



I don't know. How many people file claims because their house burns down? Do they stop paying for insurance because it's highly unlikely?

Ammo like this is viewed by some as insurance - a good way to deal with a high loss, low probability event. Others may view it as simply good ammo that they have the money to pay for - it's worth it to them, even if you don't see it as a rational act.
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 7:12:58 AM EDT
Tangeant,
Creedmoor is offering this Secial run , In new brass, with additional features of crimped and sealed primers and case mouth waterproofing (with testing to 66 foot equivelant) for appx $600. 00 freight paid, or 300 for 500 rds. This is not twice the cost of regular 75grain ammo ,if you are comparing to 'New" ammo. The reman is of course cheaper, but that is comparing different products, with different production costs. If you personally do not want any, that's OK, but people who want ammo with "All the bells and whistles" and call for someone to step up to the plate to have a special run made need to realize that it will cost more than ball ammo. I know it is expensive. It is not practice ammo. One route would be to practice with ball or even the 75 grain remanufactured, and keep the Creedmoor special run type ammo for defensive use.

"Posers?" I agree most people will not have to ever be involved in a life or death confrontation. Most police officers do not ever get involved in a gunfight, however see no harm in mental and physical preparation for ones safety. I personally don't think it proper or wise to broadly ridicule and scoff at such a wide audience . I have found that I can make enemies easily enough by accident . I go to great lengths to avoid intentionally and unnecessarily doing so.
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 7:39:27 AM EDT
Jeff, thanks again for doing this run, and of course thanks to Creedmoor for handling it. I'm a lil' ticked however that the weather hasn't been cooperating with me the last couple days cuz I really want to try this with a different lower with a better trigger and of course get it to 200 yards. I'll have to hit a gander mountain and pick up some blue and red box 75s to try out of both of the guns too. I hope the M4 likes it as much as the Hbar.
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 11:19:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
Tangeant,
...

"Posers?" I agree most people will not have to ever be involved in a life or death confrontation. Most police officers do not ever get involved in a gunfight, however see no harm in mental and physical preparation for ones safety. I personally don't think it proper or wise to broadly ridicule and scoff at such a wide audience . I have found that I can make enemies easily enough by accident . I go to great lengths to avoid intentionally and unnecessarily doing so.



+1

BTW, Thanks to BH for going the extra mile.
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 4:49:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2005 4:52:04 PM EDT by Gun_Addict]
Wanting to have the most effective round for self defense is not being a poser its being responsible.

Are you "Posing" as a fire fighter because you have a fire extingisher?

This is the mentality that leads to the attatude that civilains don't need X type of firearm becuase they're not police/military.
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 5:36:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:
We will also be running as many rounds as possible through a chrony. Sierra eight was kind enough to check the velocity out of a 16in barrel and reported 2511 fps, sd 10. Since I have access to a chrono I figured why not add to the data.



It would be interesting to see the results you get, as ~2511 fps seems a little on the low side. I would have expected 2600+ fps for a 16" barrel, as even the Hornady reloading manual (usually very conservative) shows loads in the 2700 fps range for a 20" barrel with 75gn bullets.

Keep us informed.

Link Posted: 3/2/2005 5:58:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
Tangeant,
Creedmoor is offering this Secial run , In new brass, with additional features of crimped and sealed primers and case mouth waterproofing (with testing to 66 foot equivelant) for appx $600. 00 freight paid, or 300 for 500 rds. This is not twice the cost of regular 75grain ammo ,if you are comparing to 'New" ammo. The reman is of course cheaper, but that is comparing different products, with different production costs. If you personally do not want any, that's OK, but people who want ammo with "All the bells and whistles" and call for someone to step up to the plate to have a special run made need to realize that it will cost more than ball ammo. I know it is expensive. It is not practice ammo. One route would be to practice with ball or even the 75 grain remanufactured, and keep the Creedmoor special run type ammo for defensive use.

"Posers?" I agree most people will not have to ever be involved in a life or death confrontation. Most police officers do not ever get involved in a gunfight, however see no harm in mental and physical preparation for ones safety. I personally don't think it proper or wise to broadly ridicule and scoff at such a wide audience . I have found that I can make enemies easily enough by accident . I go to great lengths to avoid intentionally and unnecessarily doing so.



I like you more everyday.
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 7:42:22 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 12:51:30 PM EDT
I just got a notice the other day that had a special of 1K for $425...

Spooky
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 1:38:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Xtra:

Originally Posted By photoman:
We will also be running as many rounds as possible through a chrony. Sierra eight was kind enough to check the velocity out of a 16in barrel and reported 2511 fps, sd 10. Since I have access to a chrono I figured why not add to the data.



It would be interesting to see the results you get, as ~2511 fps seems a little on the low side. I would have expected 2600+ fps for a 16" barrel, as even the Hornady reloading manual (usually very conservative) shows loads in the 2700 fps range for a 20" barrel with 75gn bullets.

Keep us informed.




200 FPS less in a 16" sounds about right. I get 2700 FPS with a hair over starting load in my 20" with 77 gr. Sierras. I let another guy with nearly identical 20" and 16" AR's test his ammo, a HOT 55 grain load. He got 3300 with the 20" and 3100 with the 16". Go figure...

Link Posted: 7/4/2005 8:49:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
I just got a notice the other day that had a special of 1K for $425...

Spooky



Went ahead and ordered a case. That's quite a discount off $599 for the case originally--couldn't pass it up. Another irrational purchase.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 11:09:00 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 4:18:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmm:

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
I just got a notice the other day that had a special of 1K for $425...

Spooky



Went ahead and ordered a case. That's quite a discount off $599 for the case originally--couldn't pass it up. Another irrational purchase.



I looked at it real close, then looked at the 500 round half case I had and couldn't justify buying more... But man, $125 more for 1000 total rounds was really tempting...

Spooky
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 4:43:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
This stuff is about as good as it gets for "social use", unless you can get your hands on some mk262, which would probably be even more expensive on the open market.



Roll your own.
Link Posted: 7/4/2005 5:23:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
This stuff is about as good as it gets for "social use", unless you can get your hands on some mk262, which would probably be even more expensive on the open market.



Roll your own.



That's exactly what I'm going to do for practice rounds. Try to duplicate the load as closely as possible using the same projectile. Reloading is fun
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 4:10:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2005 4:11:17 PM EDT by cmm]
Tried to order another case and they're out. They said they're not doing any more special runs due to lack of demand. From what I read here, they should have sold out a long time ago. Sounds like lots of people showed great interest but didn't follow through. The guy said that the $425 price was breakeven for them so I guess I should be happy I got a relatively decent deal.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 4:12:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmm:
Tried to order another case and they're out. They said they're not doing any more special runs due to lack of demand. From what I read here, they should have sold out a long time ago. Sounds like lots of people showed great interest but didn't follow through. The guy said that the $425 price was breakeven for them so I guess I should be happy I got a relatively decent deal.



Thats probably why it didn't sell all that well. i'm kinda ticked that there out cuz i was going to order some next pay day
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 2:43:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2005 2:45:22 PM EDT by wyv3rn]

Originally Posted By cmm:
Tried to order another case and they're out. They said they're not doing any more special runs due to lack of demand. From what I read here, they should have sold out a long time ago. Sounds like lots of people showed great interest but didn't follow through. The guy said that the $425 price was breakeven for them so I guess I should be happy I got a relatively decent deal.



There really wasn't much to get excited about with this ammo. It was basically BH Red Box 75gr with crimped/sealed primers and sealed case necks. Crimping is unecessary in SAMMI pressures and how many people here are doing some kind of dive operations? Add to that the fact that you could only buy it 1k/$600 at a time and its no wonder people didn't buy it. For that kind of bulk I expect a better price or more worthwhile features (NATO pressure and/or Nosler 77gr cannelured projectiles). I and many others echoed these statements at the time this ammunition was introduced. Don't blame the consumer for being smart with their money.

Now 1k @ $425 is a steal and I immediately looked to jump on that but it was already out.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 2:12:35 PM EDT
WELL SAID wyv3rn !
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 9:27:22 PM EDT
Uh....the Hornady 75 gr OTM offers comat proven terminal performance as just as good as the Nosler 77 gr OTM--the 77 gr SMK is a touch more accurate in some barrels, but the terminal performance is not quite as good as the Hornady or Nosler.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 10:47:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DocGKR:
Uh....the Hornady 75 gr OTM offers comat proven terminal performance as just as good as the Nosler 77 gr OTM--the 77 gr SMK is a touch more accurate in some barrels, but the terminal performance is not quite as good as the Hornady or Nosler.



I believe the Nosler 77gr to have an (albiet slight) advantage over the Hornady 75gr. While this may be considered splitting hairs, the Nosler 77gr does have slightly better terminal performance than the Hornady 75gr @ ~2600fps. The most important difference from what I have collected is the Nosler 77gr continues to fragment at somewhat lower velocities than the Hornady 75gr.

Here's to waiting to get my pee pee slapped by the Doc...
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 4:43:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 4:43:57 PM EDT by Spooky130]

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:

Originally Posted By cmm:
Tried to order another case and they're out. They said they're not doing any more special runs due to lack of demand. From what I read here, they should have sold out a long time ago. Sounds like lots of people showed great interest but didn't follow through. The guy said that the $425 price was breakeven for them so I guess I should be happy I got a relatively decent deal.



There really wasn't much to get excited about with this ammo. It was basically BH Red Box 75gr with crimped/sealed primers and sealed case necks. Crimping is unecessary in SAMMI pressures and how many people here are doing some kind of dive operations? Add to that the fact that you could only buy it 1k/$600 at a time and its no wonder people didn't buy it. For that kind of bulk I expect a better price or more worthwhile features (NATO pressure and/or Nosler 77gr cannelured projectiles). I and many others echoed these statements at the time this ammunition was introduced. Don't blame the consumer for being smart with their money.

Now 1k @ $425 is a steal and I immediately looked to jump on that but it was already out.



The first part of this post is why no one can get together enough money or interest in buying a big lot of BH Mk262 stuff. Pre-pay, large lot, long time from payment to ammo in hand... And you summed up the reasons it didn't sell that well - nothing entirely special. Now the Mk262 at NATO pressures would qualify as special... I wish I could find a nice steady supply of Mk262 to build a little supply... Maybe it is time for a Dillon press?

Spooky
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:37:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:

Originally Posted By cmm:
... They said they're not doing any more special runs due to lack of demand. From what I read here, they should have sold out a long time ago. Sounds like lots of people showed great interest but didn't follow through. ...



There really wasn't much to get excited about with this ammo. It was basically BH Red Box 75gr with crimped/sealed primers and sealed case necks. ... Add to that the fact that you could only buy it 1k/$600 at a time and its no wonder people didn't buy it. ...



The first part of this post is why no one can get together enough money or interest in buying a big lot of BH Mk262 stuff...


I think you're right on the first part--it's easy to say "I'm interested" here but it's another thing to fork over $600 when it comes time to order. That said, I wonder if a smaller minimum order size would have helped. I didn't order any of this run because I couldn't afford 500 rounds, but I would have ordered 2 or 3 boxes of it. Same for my dad--a box to try, then another box or two later if it worked well. I think most people interested in this kind of ammo are thinking a few mags worth for serious use and cheaper blue box or un-sealed red box for practice and XM193 for large quantity stockpiles.

I also wonder if Creedmoor was the best venue for this ammo? Seems to me I always hear Creedmoor mentioned in association with High Power. That kind of shooter would have no use for the sealant and would avoid crimped primers so they could reload the case. I wonder it it would have sold better through Ammoman.com or CheaperThanDirt or some place like that?
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