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Posted: 1/18/2005 5:14:11 PM EST
Is the Black Hills 68gr Heavy Match loaded with the Hornady 68gr HPBT? I was just wondering because I bought a box of this ammo and the bullet does not look like the box of Hornady bullets I have. The bullet in the Black Hills load has a cannelure and the shape of the ogive looks different than the Hornady.
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 6:12:00 AM EST
swj0001,
It is Hornady. We spec it with cannelure. Jeff Hoffman, Black Hills Ammo
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 9:53:21 AM EST
It's good stuff. Particulary if you want to shoot at night and have a bare muzzle or an A2 FH. It's really low flash ammo.
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 10:21:08 AM EST
Forest,
Thanks for the recommendation. Further info, a few months back there was a thread that informed us that some rifles loved it, and some did not. We did some testing and made a propellant change that did improve accuracy (still flash suppressed). Just info from the factory because I know you guys are all interested in this type of detail. Jeff
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 10:23:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 10:27:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
swj0001,
It is Hornady. We spec it with cannelure. Jeff Hoffman, Black Hills Ammo



Thanks for taking the time to visit and post information from one of the best ammo makers around.

TXL
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 10:44:41 AM EST
Jeff thanks for the info - I'll have to get more . Lately all I've been buying is your 75gr OTM loads which are 2moa in my 1:9 barrels. I'd like to see if I could get 1moa or better with the 68.
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 10:54:07 AM EST
I was under the impression that the 68gr match ammo did not have a cannelure.
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 10:57:05 AM EST
Forest,
If you are loking for pure accuracy out to 300 from a 1/9, try the 50 vmax. It is a varmint load, not a good penetrator for defensive use, but really accurate. jeff

TXlewis, Thank you for the welcome. Great bunch here. Jeff
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 11:06:55 AM EST
eddie7,
The 68 has had a cannelure for a long time. The 75 did not, however, we are now loading the 75 with cannelure also. The only BHA 223 loads that now do NOT have a cannelure are the 40 gr Ballisitic Tip, the 50 gr V-Max, the commercial(non military) 77 grain. Jeff
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 11:12:09 AM EST
Thanks for the info. I obviously have not been paying attention. Time to start ordering.
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 12:44:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
...., we are now loading the 75 with cannelure also. ...



Jeff,
How can we tell if we're buying the 75gr with the cannelure? I'd like mine to have the cannelure.

Thanks for the tip on the 50gr vmax.

-Forest
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 1:32:08 PM EST
Forest,
My rifle production supervisor tells me that all reman 75s made since June have the cannelure. all new ammo 75s since Oct have the cannelure. One way to be positive is to look at the lot number on the 75 ammo. If it ends in 5 it is 2005 production, and has a cannelure. Jeff
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 3:12:24 PM EST
Thanks so much for the answer and all the additional information. Talk about customer service!
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 5:29:32 PM EST
Jeff,
Thanks for the info - definately good news!
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 6:02:29 PM EST
I had heard that the 68-gr Black Hills round was loaded at lower velocities, or rather lower than NATO spec chamber pressures. Is this true at all?

If so, was it done for the sake of accuracy or...?

Link Posted: 1/19/2005 6:34:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Artifex:
.... or rather lower than NATO spec chamber pressures. Is this true at all?
.



All commercial .223 ammo is loaded to SAMMI spec - NOT NATO or US Army specification.

Why would you expect .223 to be loaded to 5.56 pressures?
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 4:38:40 AM EST
Regardless, I believe it still has outstanding terminal performance - according to what I have read on the tacked threads and the ammo oracle.


Originally Posted By Artifex:
I had heard that the 68-gr Black Hills round was loaded at lower velocities, or rather lower than NATO spec chamber pressures. Is this true at all?

If so, was it done for the sake of accuracy or...?


Link Posted: 1/20/2005 7:34:50 AM EST
I have several hundred rounds (700+) of BH blue 68 gr. OTM. Is there a way to tell which boxes use the improved power?
TIA,
Ed
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 9:21:25 AM EST
Ducati650,
IM me the lot #. I am leaving for Shot Show ,so answer might be a week or so. Jeff
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 10:58:20 AM EST
which is better the 68 or 75 gr OTM?
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 11:00:08 AM EST
Will do tonight. No rush. Enjoy the show.
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 12:27:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By JeffersonDarcy:
which is better the 68 or 75 gr OTM?



For what purpose, with what twist rate barrel?
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 12:40:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2005 12:40:55 PM EST by JeffersonDarcy]

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By JeffersonDarcy:
which is better the 68 or 75 gr OTM?



For what purpose, with what twist rate barrel?



in all reality it will be used for punching paper. But I want something that has the best terminal ballistic performance just in case.

1/7 barrel.

I just ordered 2 boxes of 50 of the 75 gr from fulton. I'm correct in assuming this will have a cannelure?

I bought the red box (new manufature) but if I like it I'll probably get a case of the blue box (remanufactured)... is there any reason I should get the new stuff instead of the remanufactured tho... I've heard the BH remanufactured stuff is really just as good.
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 12:44:40 PM EST
also when it is zeroed with 75 gr, will the POI for 55 gr be very different within 100-150 yds? will I be able to mess around with cheaper 55 gr stuff without rezeroing?
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 1:05:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By JeffersonDarcy:

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By JeffersonDarcy:
which is better the 68 or 75 gr OTM?



For what purpose, with what twist rate barrel?



in all reality it will be used for punching paper. But I want something that has the best terminal ballistic performance just in case.

1/7 barrel.


75gr hands down.

I buy the red-box to load into my magazines for the 'bumps in the night'.

Blue box is used for long range practice, zeroing, and night shoots.
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 1:08:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By JeffersonDarcy:
also when it is zeroed with 75 gr, will the POI for 55 gr be very different within 100-150 yds? will I be able to mess around with cheaper 55 gr stuff without rezeroing?



Depends on what kind of accuracy you're expecting.

Yes at 150y it will be off a few inches. It's not a concern if your shooting defensively - but if you want to hit small critters or beer cans you'll need to rezero.

Both my rifle classes I zeroed with 55gr and shot during the day with 55gr with Q3131A. At night I switched to either 68gr OTM or 75gr OTM (I brougt both). To 50y I was still accurate enough to keep it in the 4"x2" 'optic box' of the target.
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 3:58:49 PM EST
My rifles love the 68 gr. bluebox. Which means I love it too.

Great stuff, if it's good in your rifle.
Link Posted: 1/20/2005 5:33:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
Ducati650,
IM me the lot #. I am leaving for Shot Show ,so answer might be a week or so. Jeff



I sent an IM. Here are the numbers:

1903203024
1903202874
061516119­4
0610201734

Which, if any, of these are the new powder? Is there a ballistic difference between old and new? I chronied my SPR last spring with 68 OTM blue.
Thanks,
Ed
ducati650
Link Posted: 1/22/2005 8:49:21 AM EST
I bought a box of this ammo and the bullet does not look like the box of Hornady bullets I have. The bullet in the Black Hills load has a cannelure and the shape of the ogive looks different than the Hornady.

I found exactly the same thing. The 68 Horny OTM bullets you and I can buy appear to be a completely different bullet than the ones BH is loading up; it's not just the cannelure. And in my experience, stealing the bullets from some BH loads and re-setting them in rifle-specific brass/primer/powder combinations produces vastly superior accuracy to waht you get when handloading the over-the-counter bullets.

So I have this plan. I'm going to get one of those "voice disguiser" gizmos for my phone and call up Hornady, saying "Hi. This is Jeff at Blackhills. I need you to ship a few thousand of those 68 gr bullets you make for me to friend SailorDude in Arizona. His address is ....." Is this a plan, or what?

SD
Link Posted: 1/23/2005 7:15:27 AM EST
Ok, obviously I asked the wrong question earlier.

Are the 68 grain OTM rounds available loaded at NATO pressures anywhere?

I like the way the blue-box 68's shoot, and it's the main ammo I use, but just wondered if there were any available with a little more velocity.
Link Posted: 1/23/2005 3:48:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By Artifex:
.... or rather lower than NATO spec chamber pressures. Is this true at all?
.



All commercial .223 ammo is loaded to SAMMI spec - NOT NATO or US Army specification.

Why would you expect .223 to be loaded to 5.56 pressures?

Link Posted: 1/23/2005 4:06:51 PM EST
Yes, I saw that already
Link Posted: 1/23/2005 6:25:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
eddie7,
The 68 has had a cannelure for a long time. The 75 did not, however, we are now loading the 75 with cannelure also. The only BHA 223 loads that now do NOT have a cannelure are the 40 gr Ballisitic Tip, the 50 gr V-Max, the commercial(non military) 77 grain. Jeff



Why are you making match ammo with cannelured bullets?
Link Posted: 1/23/2005 6:29:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/23/2005 7:10:51 PM EST
I applaud the addition of cannelures to the Hornady 68gr/75gr line.
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 5:32:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
I applaud the addition of cannelures to the Hornady 68gr/75gr line.



Well, Black Hills just lost a customer, if that's what they think is appropriate in match ammunition.

Maybe they should change the label to "Special Forces Wannabe" ammunition.
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 5:44:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
I applaud the addition of cannelures to the Hornady 68gr/75gr line.



Well, Black Hills just lost a customer, if that's what they think is appropriate in match ammunition.

Maybe they should change the label to "Special Forces Wannabe" ammunition.



Why don't you look at the 77gr SMKs. They are more accurate and the 75gr OTMs, and IIRC they lack the cannalure. The same could be said for the 69gr SMKs.

They make something for everyone.
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 6:49:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
I applaud the addition of cannelures to the Hornady 68gr/75gr line.



Well, Black Hills just lost a customer, if that's what they think is appropriate in match ammunition.

Maybe they should change the label to "Special Forces Wannabe" ammunition.



I'll take his.
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 9:48:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
I applaud the addition of cannelures to the Hornady 68gr/75gr line.



Well, Black Hills just lost a customer, if that's what they think is appropriate in match ammunition.

Maybe they should change the label to "Special Forces Wannabe" ammunition.



Why don't you look at the 77gr SMKs. They are more accurate and the 75gr OTMs, and IIRC they lack the cannalure. The same could be said for the 69gr SMKs.

They make something for everyone.



Because I get better speed and accuracy from the 75s. Since the DIY bullets from Hornady lack a cannelure, I either roll my own, or buy my Hornady reman match ammo from Carl Leisinger (CAL III Enterprises). Hornady 3-D brand reman does not use the cannelured 75 HPBT, as it should be for a true match quality load.

I am, however, going to do some testing head to head with the Hornady 75 AMAX and Sierra 80 MK at 600 to see which my rifle likes best. But from 0 to 300, Hornady 75 HPBT rules in my rifle.
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 11:32:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
Further info, a few months back there was a thread that informed us that some rifles loved it, and some did not. We did some testing and made a propellant change that did improve accuracy (still flash suppressed). Just info from the factory because I know you guys are all interested in this type of detail. Jeff



Having one of the ones that did not like the 68gr, I am glad to hear this. I will certainly have to try the new batch as the last 68gr would occasionally have some tremendous but inconsistent performance.
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 12:16:55 PM EST
Bartholomew_Roberts,
IM me your address for a sample of the new propellant 68s so you can try it, and I can get your opinion. Thanks, Jeff
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 12:25:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
Bartholomew_Roberts,
IM me your address for a sample of the new propellant 68s so you can try it, and I can get your opinion. Thanks, Jeff



Hey Jeff, thanks for answering the question.

Seems you do not value the target shooter very much. I'll be sure to spread the word.

In the meantime, Carl Leisinger's reputation as a guy who listens to his customers grows around the Highpower community.
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 12:50:20 PM EST
SWO_daddy,
I didn't see a question. I saw an opinion, and someone who was looking for a fight. I offer what I can to answer questions I can help with but I don't have time to spar about nothing. Other knowledgeable folks gave you the same advice I would have. Jeff
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 12:56:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 1:00:22 PM EST
Jeff,

I would like to say "thank you" for adding the cannelure. Some people would be better off playing golf if all they want to do is put bullets in as small a group as possible, reliability be damned!
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 1:02:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/24/2005 1:02:27 PM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 3:35:09 PM EST
sierraeight,
Any plans to offer 5.56 as opposed to the .223?
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 4:22:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/24/2005 4:43:57 PM EST by Siglite]
I read everything on these threads to learn about different types of ammunition and of the different manufacturers Jeff has been one of the few of the reps I can recall ever taking the time to post here in the ammunition forum. I have a low post count because I do more reading than posting, but I will make the effort this time to say that I shoot Black Hills ammunition and I appreciate Jeff posting in this forum. I believe Jeff values all of his customers and I will be sure to spread the word.
Link Posted: 1/24/2005 4:43:29 PM EST
I love the ass-kissing follow-the-herd mentality of this site.

Link Posted: 1/24/2005 4:44:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
I applaud the addition of cannelures to the Hornady 68gr/75gr line.



Well, Black Hills just lost a customer, if that's what they think is appropriate in match ammunition.

Maybe they should change the label to "Special Forces Wannabe" ammunition.



members.cox.net/vseven/cry.jpg




I WANT TO BE UBER TACTICAL!!!!!!
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