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AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 10/2/2005 8:29:29 AM EDT
My friend has a harris attached to his 20" bushie with a scope.  I guess there's an adaptor to attach it to standard forearms.  It seems to work well enough.  Is it a bad idea because of the vibration it can cause, or do the benefits negate this?  I have a spare Harris and was considering something like that one one of my AR's but am not sure.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:52:29 AM EDT
[#1]
If the rifle is not going to be free-floated anyway, go ahead and do that.

Out to 100, maybe even 200 yards, the difference would be neglible.

If you want to free-float the gun you have to start with a good quality free-floating rail, like LaRue, Daniel Defense, KAC, Troy, etc.

After you go there, you can attach all you want to it and barrel harmonics would be unaffected.

It all depends on your desired application for the rifle.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:09:58 AM EDT
[#2]
I had a standard 20" Hbar with a YHM free float quad rail.  I didn' like how heavy the quad rail made the rifle so I sold the upper.  I know they make carbon fiber tubes but I am assuming they are out of my price range.  I don't have to have a bipod I was just wondering what the general consensus was on mounting them to standard forearms.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:12:17 PM EDT
[#3]
simple, don't buy a 20in hbar and you'll be fine...
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:18:13 PM EDT
[#4]
I like Hbar's.  I don't mind some weight to a rifle, but to me a rifle that fires such a small round shouldn't weigh 10lbs or more.  Just a matter of preference really.  My PTR with clone MSG-90 stock, bipod, B&T mount, rings and 4X16X42mm scope wieghs just as much if not more but I don't mind since it's a .308.  That's probably why I'll never have a uber tactical M4 with every accessory possible.  It just gets ridiculous to weigh down a 5.56 rifle/carbine that much IMHO.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:31:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Think of it this way.. Can your elbows hold the rifle steadier than the bipod?  If yes, then congradulations, I don't know how you do it, but skip the bipod.  If no, then slap it on.  If nothing else, you can use it as a VFG.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:37:04 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
Think of it this way.. Can your elbows hold the rifle steadier than the bipod?  If yes, then congradulations, I don't know how you do it, but skip the bipod.  If no, then slap it on.  If nothing else, you can use it as a VFG.



I definately can't hold it as steady as with a bipod.  It just seems like alot of people think it's a bad idea if the barrel isn't free floated since it increases vibrations.  I was just curious about the general consensus.  I'm trying to decide whether I want the bipod or not since it would be mounted to a standard forearm.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:43:47 PM EDT
[#7]
The concern isnt vibrations, its a change in point of impact when using the bipod. Make sure you fire for groups with and without the bipod to see if the point of impact is close enough for your tasks.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:46:47 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
The concern isnt vibrations, its a change in point of impact when using the bipod. Make sure you fire for groups with and without the bipod to see if the point of impact is close enough for your tasks.



Oh I figured the increased vibration would affect the precision of the rilfle making the groups it is capable of decrease.  At the same time I figured making easier to steady the rifle I wouldn't notice as I definately can't shoot better than my rifle.  I guess I was wrong.  I think I'm just going to leave it off.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:53:50 PM EDT
[#9]
I have used a Harris #5 bipod adapter on my non free float standard carbine and it worked quite well for training that was oriented towards precision type work.  I now have a basic aluminum free float tube with a basic Uncle Mike's bopid stud on the bottom of the handguard so I can either use the bopid or not.  It's handy to have if you switch out a head up type optic (red-dot) for a scope.  The bipod is a big help when usign a scope.  I have not noticed any difference in POI when the bipod is installed or not since it's installed on the ff tube itself and not attatched to the barrel.  Bipod studs are cheap and easy to install.  Give it a try and see if it works for you.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:01:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:06:17 PM EDT
[#11]
bahhhh
just do it. I set up my Match Target H-Bar that way...way back when before I knew anything about ARs and it worked fine.  It had a cheapo Simmons scope on some no-name ARMS copy and a Harris bi-pod.
At 100yds with semi good ammo I could get a quarter sized group. I am no expert sniper but I sure did have fun blowing soda cans of the target stand at 100yds.


]
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 10:34:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Wow, that setup looks almost like our issue M16A2E3 designated marksman rifle (except we use the ACOG 4x32 scopes). The IDF feels that attaching the harris bipod directly to the standard hand guard with a standard A2 "govt profile" barrel is good enough for this role.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:04:15 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
bahhhh
just do it. I set up my Match Target H-Bar that way...way back when before I knew anything about ARs and it worked fine.  It had a cheapo Simmons scope on some no-name ARMS copy and a Harris bi-pod.
At 100yds with semi good ammo I could get a quarter sized group. I am no expert sniper but I sure did have fun blowing soda cans of the target stand at 100yds.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/cbarzyz/ColtMatch-target.jpg
]




can you show me what the bipod stud you use looks like, or link to a place that sells it? I have been wanting to add a bipod, but I don't know what bipod stud to get that will work on the handguard.

THANKS
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:27:42 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
bahhhh
just do it. I set up my Match Target H-Bar that way...way back when before I knew anything about ARs and it worked fine.  It had a cheapo Simmons scope on some no-name ARMS copy and a Harris bi-pod.
At 100yds with semi good ammo I could get a quarter sized group. I am no expert sniper but I sure did have fun blowing soda cans of the target stand at 100yds.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/cbarzyz/ColtMatch-target.jpg
]




can you show me what the bipod stud you use looks like, or link to a place that sells it? I have been wanting to add a bipod, but I don't know what bipod stud to get that will work on the handguard.

THANKS



Harris Adapter #5


I used to have the same configuration on Match Target. not that bad.
snafu.altervista.org/HPIM1097.JPG
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:40:58 AM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:04:02 AM EDT
[#16]
oops woke up too late!
yea, the #5 will do the trick. goes right in perfect.
Enjoy!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:26:38 AM EDT
[#17]
YeeHa!

Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:23:33 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
bahhhh
just do it. I set up my Match Target H-Bar that way...way back when before I knew anything about ARs and it worked fine.  It had a cheapo Simmons scope on some no-name ARMS copy and a Harris bi-pod.
At 100yds with semi good ammo I could get a quarter sized group. I am no expert sniper but I sure did have fun blowing soda cans of the target stand at 100yds.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/cbarzyz/ColtMatch-target.jpg
]




can you show me what the bipod stud you use looks like, or link to a place that sells it? I have been wanting to add a bipod, but I don't know what bipod stud to get that will work on the handguard.

THANKS



Harris Adapter #5
executivegunworks.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/storeimg-275a.jpg

I used to have the same configuration on Match Target. not that bad.
snafu.altervista.org/HPIM1097.JPG





gee, THANKS !
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 9:44:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Since the bipod is attached to the HGs, is attached to the HG cap, is attached to the barrel, you'll get some change in harmonics with the bipod.  So you'll get some POI shift vs. offhand, but unless you're really steady w/o the bipod probably less than the improvement from having the rest.  And if it's an HBAR the extra stiffness will minimize that effect compared to a lighter profile barrel.  You might be able to get slightly better groups from a sandbag than the bipod, but sandbags are harder to carry around.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:59:40 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
Since the bipod is attached to the HGs, is attached to the HG cap, is attached to the barrel, you'll get some change in harmonics with the bipod.  So you'll get some POI shift vs. offhand, but unless you're really steady w/o the bipod probably less than the improvement from having the rest.  And if it's an HBAR the extra stiffness will minimize that effect compared to a lighter profile barrel.  You might be able to get slightly better groups from a sandbag than the bipod, but sandbags are harder to carry around.



My rifle tends to cant or rotate when on sandbags. Will a bipod fix this? Also there's a swivel version of the Harris bipod. What are the benefits and drawbacks of a swivel bipod?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:10:15 AM EDT
[#21]
If it is merely a plinking rifle, then it would do the trick. Bi-pods mounted on the handguard will be fairly accurate.

I have one mounted on an M4 handguard, using a Harris no. 20 (if i remember correctly) stud adapter.  If your handguard is fairly "solid" (only has a slight play), you are going to be able to hit your targets.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:15:41 AM EDT
[#22]

My rifle tends to cant or rotate when on sandbags. Will a bipod fix this? Also there's a swivel version of the Harris bipod. What are the benefits and drawbacks of a swivel bipod?

My rifles with bipods don't tip side to side.  None of mine have swivels.  If you have a swivel type, then it could tip at the swivel.  But they have a tension adjustment to friction lock it in place.  I've heard differing opinions on whether they lock it tight enough or not.  

The main advantage to the swivel type is that you can set up quicker on uneven terrain since you just use the swivel feature to get the rifle lined up vertically without having to adjust the legs.  With the kind I have the legs are infinitely adjustable (not notched) so you can get it lined up perfectly without the swivel, but it takes some time.  If you're going to be shooting off a bench or can take the time to set up each shot then that's fine.  If you'll need to set up the shot quickly or move a lot between shots then I'd suggest getting the swivel type with the notched legs.

I belive the Harris swivel models just tilt left-right.  There are some with "pan" too.  That lets you rotate the gun to the left and right to different targets without moving the legs.  
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:48:47 PM EDT
[#23]


I belive the Harris swivel models just tilt left-right.  There are some with "pan" too.  That lets you rotate the gun to the left and right to different targets without moving the legs.  



I have a Caldwell that tilts and pans.  The problem is that it seems to be spring loaded, so that you are fighting spring tension while trying to hold the rifle level.  It is also too tall (9" minimum), but the price was right - 40% off during a Gander Mountain moving sale.  My next one will probably be a Harris.
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